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Saudi Prince Khaled makes progress with F-35 deal

PakFactor said:
I do have a question. Does KSA have their own satellite GPS that would allow them to use their own connection to by pass US provided satellite, to prevent the location of fighters and other assets being tracked ? KSA F-35 would give it an edge among other regional air forces for sure.
Click to expand...
KSA has enough satellites to monitor the region.. So on a regional level.. yes.. It has that capability..
 
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TheBlackCoat said:
Pakistan supports Saudi Arabia. Retired Pakistan COAS General Raheel Sharif is leading IMCTC against Turkey and Iran.
Click to expand...

Stop trying to start some non-existent fire. Turkey is part of that Islamic Military alliance as well as 95 % of tall Muslim countries in the world.

But like so much else in the Muslim world, that military alliance is de facto of no to little value due to our political (our as in our leaders) political differences and fight for dominance/power.

KSA/large parts of the Arab world-Iran (since 1979) have been in a semi-cold war (sometimes with good/cordial relations other times not) but there have never been a direct war and there likely won't ever be despite the many disagreements, as there would be no winner. The only regional winners would be Turkey and Israel and both KSA and Iran are well aware of this. Moreover nobody knows what the future has in store. What is certain is that KSA/GCC/Iraq (this part of the Arab world) and Iran will remain neighbors unless we both somehow disappear from this earth.

Stop trying to turn this thread into the usual Pakistan-India mud-slinging. This is about the F-35 and KSA.

PakFactor said:
I do have a question. Does KSA have their own satellite GPS that would allow them to use their own connection to by pass US provided satellite, to prevent the location of fighters and other assets being tracked ? KSA F-35 would give it an edge among other regional air forces for sure.
Click to expand...

Maybe this will help you, bro.

Satellites of Saudi Arabia
spacer.gif
Satellites of Saudi Arabia
Communication Arabsat
KACST Space Research Institute
Earth Observation KACST
Science, Technology & Education General / Multi discipline

https://space.skyrocket.de/directories/sat_c_saudiarabia.htm

Saudi Arabia to launch 16th satellite into space
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Updated 06 February 2019
RUBA OBAID
AMEERA ABID
DEEMA AL-KHUDAIR
February 05, 2019 01:27

  • King Abdul Aziz City for Science and Technology, Lockheed Martin collaborated to manufacture SGS-1
JEDDAH: The Kingdom will launch its 16th satellite into space on Tuesday: The Saudi Geostationary Satellite 1 (SGS-1).
It will provide telecommunications capabilities, stronger internet connectivity, TV and secure communications in the Middle East, North Africa and Europe.
Developed by a team from King Abdul Aziz City for Science and Technology (KACST), it will be launched in French Guiana by Arianespace, which provides launch services for all types of satellites.
fast_80.png

KACST, a government institution that supports and enhances applied research, collaborated with Lockheed Martin to manufacture the SGS-1.
The institution has so far launched 15 satellites into the low Earth orbit, said the SGS-1 program director from KACST, Dr. Badr Al-Suwaidan.
KACST has collaborated with China in the Chang’e 4 mission to explore the far side of the moon; provided advanced services for remote-sensing systems; and participated in the launch of an advanced system for maritime monitoring and tracking with satellite data, which includes daily coverage of 30,000 vessels worldwide.
Lockheed Martin is a global security and aerospace company that is engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration and sustainment of advanced technology systems and services. Its relationship with Saudi Arabia began in 1965.
“Our goal is to deliver advanced technology and security solutions to the Saudi government and commercial sector in support of Vision 2030,” said Chief Executive for Lockheed Martin Saudi Arabia Joseph Rank.
The SGS-1 was manufactured, tested and operated with the participation of Saudi engineers and scientists.
The agreement of the launch service between Arianespace, Arabsat and KACST was announced in 2015.
In 2018, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman oversaw manufacturing stages during his visit to Lockheed Martin’s San Francisco headquarters.
During this visit, the crown prince signed the final piece that was to be placed on the SGS-1 before its launch, with the words: “Above the highest clouds.”
The satellite will be launched by the Guiana Space Centre, which is located in French Guiana because it is near the equator; it has a small population; and it is not prone to natural disasters. The vehicle that will launch the satellite is the European Ariane 5.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1092578481815388160

The SGS-1 “provides secure satellite communication on the Ka-band for the government of Saudi Arabia. It provides 35 gigabits per second,” said Al-Suwaidan, hailing “a new era.”
The Ka-band allows for higher bandwidth communication, supporting greater frequency reuse in geographically isolated spots.
Spot beams are satellite signals that are concentrated in power so that they cover a limited geographic area.
Spot beams are used so that only Earth-based stations in a particular area can properly receive the satellite signal.
“The program includes technology transfer for more than 15 engineers trained and certified by the manufacturer Lockheed Martin,” said Al-Suwaidan.
There will be more “space achievements under the new Saudi space authorities,” and under “the leadership of the first Arab astronaut, Prince Sultan bin Salman,” Al-Suwaidan added.
The SGS-1 was assembled at Lockheed Martin’s facilities in Denver, Colorado and Sunnyvale, California. In Sunnyvale, it underwent critical environmental testing.
“We had a very accommodating and smooth launch campaign thanks to the team from KACST, Arabsat and Lockheed Martin. We’re ready for the launch,” said Al-Suwaidan. “We’re grateful for the collaboration and service provided by Arianespace.”
The SGS-1 will be the 46th Lockheed Martin satellite to be launched by Arianespace. The launcher’s main stage will splash down in the Gulf of Guinea.
Thierry Fahem, the SGS-1 program director from Arianespace, wished the satellite “a long life.”

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1447201/saudi-arabia

Saudi Arabia’s Arabsat 6A Satellite Successfully Launched from Florida
Arabsat 6A is a high-capacity telecommunications satellite that will deliver television, radio, Internet, and mobile communications to customers in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe

Dr. Shaul Shay | 14/04/2019

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A SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket carrying the Arabsat 6A satellite lifts off from Cape Canaveral (Photo: AP)

Saudi Arabia has launched Arabsat 6A telecommunications satellite on April 12, 2019. The satellite was launched on board a SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket from NASA’s Kennedy Space Station in Florida.

The Lockheed Martin-built Arabsat 6A Satellite is a high-capacity telecommunications satellite that will deliver television, radio, Internet, and mobile communications to customers in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe.


Saudi Arabia has boosted efforts to expand its space program through the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST). Riyadh has long-term space ambitions and relies on the support of the United States, France, China, and Russia.

The SGS-1

The first Saudi satellite for communications (SGS-1) was launched On February 5, 2019. The operation was carried out by Arianespace.The satellite was launched from the Guiana Space Center on an Ariane 5 rocket, which also carried into orbit the GSAT-31 satellite for the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), as well as the Hellas Sat 4 (HS-4). GSAT-31 and SGS-1-HS-4 are designed to operate for at least 15 years, Arianespace representatives said.

A team from the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology developed the satellite in collaboration with Lockheed Martin. The SGS-1, which is the first satellite of its kind to be owned by the Kingdom, was developed to provide secure communications, internet connectivity and television signal across the region.

The Saudi communications satellite employs hybrid (electric and chemical) propelling systems which have helped to reduce the satellite’s weight while increasing its life expectancy. It weighs 6.5 tons and has a life expectancy of over 20 years. It also uses advanced technologies enabling it to provide highly secured and anti-interference telecommunications.

Executive Vice President of Lockheed Martin International, Richard Edwards, lauded his company’s strategic partnership with Riyadh, saying: “The successful launch is a first step in our unique partnership with KACST and Saudi Arabia, which is established on innovation, science, technology and human resources development.”

Sat 5A and Sat 5B

On December 7, 2018, the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology announced the successful launch of the Saudi Sat 5A and Saudi Sat 5B satellites on board the Long March 2D space rocket from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center of the People’s Republic of China.

The two satellites provide government agencies with high-resolution satellite images similar to those in developed countries for use in various fields. The two satellites are managed and operated from an advanced control station located at the KACST headquarters.

Saudi expertise and competencies working in the field of satellite industry and development manufactured and tested the two high-accuracy remote-sensing reconnaissance satellites in accordance with the international standards in KACST laboratories.

Summary

The launch of the new satellite comes as part of the Kingdom’s Vision 2030 aiming to localize strategic technologies. The Kingdom seeks, through the space and aeronautical technology program, to achieve regional leadership in this vital sector relying on its preeminent position and vital capabilities that will allow the country to obtain its objective.

The Saudi Arabian Vision 2030 is the roadmap for this effort, and creating a high-technology research and industrial sector – such as space and satellite programs – is an important priority for Riyadh.

King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology has already launched 16 Saudi satellites between 2000 and 2019. It also participated in the implementation of scientific experiments in outer space in cooperation with the US space agency (NASA) and Stanford University on board the satellite Saudi Sat 4 in 2014. KACST also participated in the exploration mission of “Changi 4” Satellite with China.



[Sources: Arab News, The National, Space.com, Asharq Al Awsat, Al Arabiya]

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/38128

See more in this thread or the "made in KSA" thread on this section.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/11-a...-nasa-launch-own-space-program.627112/page-14

BTW while KSA is developing quickly and impressively in recent years (not withstanding that the state is notoriously secretive), there is still tons to learn and do. I am not going to be deluded like certain other regional entities and proclaim regional hegemony etc. nor do I believe that this should be the goal for KSA, unless future leaders will turn braindead and waste the money of the nation on policing the region and other fantasies. Such a thing would only make sense in the case the Arab world united and became a truly global superpower/powerhouse but I am not sure that this will occur in my lifetime again like in the past.
 
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ArabianEmpires&Caliphates said:
Stop trying to start some non-existent fire. Turkey is part of that Islamic Military alliance as well as 95 % of tall Muslim countries in the world.

But like so much else in the Muslim world, that military alliance is de facto of no to little value due to our political (our as in our leaders) political differences and fight for dominance/power.

KSA/large parts of the Arab world-Iran (since 1979) have been in a semi-cold war (sometimes with good/cordial relations other times not) but there have never been a direct war and there likely won't ever be despite the many disagreements, as there would be no winner. The only regional winners would be Turkey and Israel and both KSA and Iran are well aware of this. Moreover nobody knows what the future has in store what is certain is that KSA/GCC/Iraq (this part of the Arab world) and Iran will remain neighbors unless we both somehow disappear from this earth.

Stop trying to turn this thread into the usual Pakistan-India mud-slinging. This is about the F-35 and KSA.
Click to expand...

LoL. Turkey is challenging Saudi Arabia & Egypt in Qatar and Libya.

PS: I am an American not an Indian.
 
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TheBlackCoat said:
LoL. Turkey is challenging Saudi Arabia & Egypt in Qatar and Libya.

PS: I am an American not an Indian.
Click to expand...

You did not read my post it seems. I am not disputing that Erdogan-ruled Turkey, with its Muslim Brotherhood obsession, with its tiny but filthy rich sidekick (current Qatari regime), is trying to (failing so far in every single Arab country as seen in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, within the GCC and Yemen with the Islah Party) to put into place Muslim Brotherhood pro-Erdogan entities in power. This is no different to the Iranian Mullah regime delusions of putting terrorist proxies in power (or attempting to doing so) in Iraq, Yemen and Lebanon (Hezbollah). The only thing in Turkey's favor is that it is far less bloody/bothersome and less hostile in this regard and there is a case of some future agreement once Erdogan is gone which he will be.

Egypt was "won" ages ago and was/is the most important Arab ally of KSA and that has always been the case. We are tied with Egypt (especially us Hijazis) by geography, blood, dialect, ancient history and we have tended to have been part of the same caliphates, empires, sultanates in the past.

Qatar is part of the GCC, KSA continues military exercises with Qatar and that joint Qatari-Turkish base in Qatar (which hosts the largest US base in the region and other country bases - UK one if I am not wrong) poses no threat and could in theory be leveled within seconds by KSA. KSA has the full strategic power and dominance in the neighborhood, Turkey is located too far away to play any role in the power dynamics of the GCC or even immediate region, unlike say Iran, that by virtue of its close geography, is a different fish and vice versa.

KSA does not support any side in Libya publicly, nor am I aware of any direct KSA involvement (so far no proof on the ground in terms of military support) and continues to have an open channel with both sides. Besides Haftar (LNA) Is the dominant party so far and by virtue of Libya's geography (Egypt next door) that is not going to change. Egypt will never allow a hostile Muslims Brotherhood ruled Libya to risk posing a threat or allow Libya turning into some Neo-Ottoman entity. Nobody in the Arab world will allow this nor the Libyan people first of all. It is a civil war, Turkey's sole interest is the EEZ and potentially gaining some construction contracts when areas impact by the civil war in Libya, are to be rebuilt. No different to the other parties in the conflict who would do the same so I am not singling anyone out here although I am no fan of Erdogan's failed delusions in the Arab world.

BTW I have nothing against Turkey as a country or the Turkish people (whether they are ethnically Arab, Circassian, Bosnian, Albanian, Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, Turkic, Kurdish etc.) but I cannot support a regional entity, Muslim or not, which meddles negatively in the affairs of Arab nations. No Turk would be happy if Arab states were taking advantage of a civil war in Turkey or took advantage of destroyed nations. Same goes with Iran BTW. We as Arabs, largely unanimously, condemn and condemned Western/Israeli meddling and it would be absolutely hypocritical to close our eyes for similar behavior just because it happens to be committed by majority Muslim nations ruled by regimes, in the case of Iran people have little say in what their leaders do outside of their borders, and in the case of Turkey, we all know what Erdogan has been doing with the Turkish media, state etc. in the past 20 years and that far from all Turks support him.

But most people are blind sheep. Before the KSA/Arab countries and Turkey (Erdogan) "divorce", the music was different from all sides, but this is how it is. People tend to blindly follow their leaders policy even if it hurts their own country and future. I am probably guilty of this as well, for instance I used to support the Yemen intervention but I am now divided whether or not it was worth it and if a diplomatic solution could not have been preferred but as usual actors (Houthis) who don't act independently and are used as pawns by foreigners (Mullah regime) tend to be suicidal and willing to cause misery for 99,9% of their own people, as long as the leadership is embolden.

@camelguy @Salmanov @Blacklight @The SC
 
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ArabianEmpires&Caliphates said:
Stop trying to start some non-existent fire. Turkey is part of that Islamic Military alliance as well as 95 % of tall Muslim countries in the world.

But like so much else in the Muslim world, that military alliance is de facto of no to little value due to our political (our as in our leaders) political differences and fight for dominance/power.

KSA/large parts of the Arab world-Iran (since 1979) have been in a semi-cold war (sometimes with good/cordial relations other times not) but there have never been a direct war and there likely won't ever be despite the many disagreements, as there would be no winner. The only regional winners would be Turkey and Israel and both KSA and Iran are well aware of this. Moreover nobody knows what the future has in store. What is certain is that KSA/GCC/Iraq (this part of the Arab world) and Iran will remain neighbors unless we both somehow disappear from this earth.

Stop trying to turn this thread into the usual Pakistan-India mud-slinging. This is about the F-35 and KSA.



Maybe this will help you, bro.

Satellites of Saudi Arabia
spacer.gif
Satellites of Saudi Arabia
Communication Arabsat
KACST Space Research Institute
Earth Observation KACST
Science, Technology & Education General / Multi discipline

https://space.skyrocket.de/directories/sat_c_saudiarabia.htm

https://space.skyrocket.de/directories/sat_c.htm

For those interested in seeing the number of Arab satellites in orbit or Arab satellites that were once in orbit many years/decades ago.

@The SC

Do you agree with what some highly respected Arab contributors online are saying about KSA's most likely existing ability (de facto) to put a satellite into space using our existing ballistic missiles and existing missile force (RSSMF) courtesy of the Chinese, Ukrainian and most likely Pakistani cooperation? What is holding the leadership back, you think? Possible political pressure, can't think of anything else, given the secrecy of our ballistic missile program and already existing arsenal.

Saudi Arabia to launch 16th satellite into space
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1450506-845056481.jpg

3 / 3
Updated 06 February 2019
RUBA OBAID
AMEERA ABID
DEEMA AL-KHUDAIR
February 05, 2019 01:27

  • King Abdul Aziz City for Science and Technology, Lockheed Martin collaborated to manufacture SGS-1
JEDDAH: The Kingdom will launch its 16th satellite into space on Tuesday: The Saudi Geostationary Satellite 1 (SGS-1).
It will provide telecommunications capabilities, stronger internet connectivity, TV and secure communications in the Middle East, North Africa and Europe.
Developed by a team from King Abdul Aziz City for Science and Technology (KACST), it will be launched in French Guiana by Arianespace, which provides launch services for all types of satellites.
fast_80.png

KACST, a government institution that supports and enhances applied research, collaborated with Lockheed Martin to manufacture the SGS-1.
The institution has so far launched 15 satellites into the low Earth orbit, said the SGS-1 program director from KACST, Dr. Badr Al-Suwaidan.
KACST has collaborated with China in the Chang’e 4 mission to explore the far side of the moon; provided advanced services for remote-sensing systems; and participated in the launch of an advanced system for maritime monitoring and tracking with satellite data, which includes daily coverage of 30,000 vessels worldwide.
Lockheed Martin is a global security and aerospace company that is engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration and sustainment of advanced technology systems and services. Its relationship with Saudi Arabia began in 1965.
“Our goal is to deliver advanced technology and security solutions to the Saudi government and commercial sector in support of Vision 2030,” said Chief Executive for Lockheed Martin Saudi Arabia Joseph Rank.
The SGS-1 was manufactured, tested and operated with the participation of Saudi engineers and scientists.
The agreement of the launch service between Arianespace, Arabsat and KACST was announced in 2015.
In 2018, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman oversaw manufacturing stages during his visit to Lockheed Martin’s San Francisco headquarters.
During this visit, the crown prince signed the final piece that was to be placed on the SGS-1 before its launch, with the words: “Above the highest clouds.”
The satellite will be launched by the Guiana Space Centre, which is located in French Guiana because it is near the equator; it has a small population; and it is not prone to natural disasters. The vehicle that will launch the satellite is the European Ariane 5.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1092578481815388160

The SGS-1 “provides secure satellite communication on the Ka-band for the government of Saudi Arabia. It provides 35 gigabits per second,” said Al-Suwaidan, hailing “a new era.”
The Ka-band allows for higher bandwidth communication, supporting greater frequency reuse in geographically isolated spots.
Spot beams are satellite signals that are concentrated in power so that they cover a limited geographic area.
Spot beams are used so that only Earth-based stations in a particular area can properly receive the satellite signal.
“The program includes technology transfer for more than 15 engineers trained and certified by the manufacturer Lockheed Martin,” said Al-Suwaidan.
There will be more “space achievements under the new Saudi space authorities,” and under “the leadership of the first Arab astronaut, Prince Sultan bin Salman,” Al-Suwaidan added.
The SGS-1 was assembled at Lockheed Martin’s facilities in Denver, Colorado and Sunnyvale, California. In Sunnyvale, it underwent critical environmental testing.
“We had a very accommodating and smooth launch campaign thanks to the team from KACST, Arabsat and Lockheed Martin. We’re ready for the launch,” said Al-Suwaidan. “We’re grateful for the collaboration and service provided by Arianespace.”
The SGS-1 will be the 46th Lockheed Martin satellite to be launched by Arianespace. The launcher’s main stage will splash down in the Gulf of Guinea.
Thierry Fahem, the SGS-1 program director from Arianespace, wished the satellite “a long life.”

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1447201/saudi-arabia

Saudi Arabia’s Arabsat 6A Satellite Successfully Launched from Florida
Arabsat 6A is a high-capacity telecommunications satellite that will deliver television, radio, Internet, and mobile communications to customers in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe

Dr. Shaul Shay | 14/04/2019

Send to a friend
A+A-Size
Share on
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Arabsat%206A.jpg

A SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket carrying the Arabsat 6A satellite lifts off from Cape Canaveral (Photo: AP)

Saudi Arabia has launched Arabsat 6A telecommunications satellite on April 12, 2019. The satellite was launched on board a SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket from NASA’s Kennedy Space Station in Florida.

The Lockheed Martin-built Arabsat 6A Satellite is a high-capacity telecommunications satellite that will deliver television, radio, Internet, and mobile communications to customers in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe.


Saudi Arabia has boosted efforts to expand its space program through the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST). Riyadh has long-term space ambitions and relies on the support of the United States, France, China, and Russia.

The SGS-1

The first Saudi satellite for communications (SGS-1) was launched On February 5, 2019. The operation was carried out by Arianespace.The satellite was launched from the Guiana Space Center on an Ariane 5 rocket, which also carried into orbit the GSAT-31 satellite for the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), as well as the Hellas Sat 4 (HS-4). GSAT-31 and SGS-1-HS-4 are designed to operate for at least 15 years, Arianespace representatives said.

A team from the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology developed the satellite in collaboration with Lockheed Martin. The SGS-1, which is the first satellite of its kind to be owned by the Kingdom, was developed to provide secure communications, internet connectivity and television signal across the region.

The Saudi communications satellite employs hybrid (electric and chemical) propelling systems which have helped to reduce the satellite’s weight while increasing its life expectancy. It weighs 6.5 tons and has a life expectancy of over 20 years. It also uses advanced technologies enabling it to provide highly secured and anti-interference telecommunications.

Executive Vice President of Lockheed Martin International, Richard Edwards, lauded his company’s strategic partnership with Riyadh, saying: “The successful launch is a first step in our unique partnership with KACST and Saudi Arabia, which is established on innovation, science, technology and human resources development.”

Sat 5A and Sat 5B

On December 7, 2018, the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology announced the successful launch of the Saudi Sat 5A and Saudi Sat 5B satellites on board the Long March 2D space rocket from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center of the People’s Republic of China.

The two satellites provide government agencies with high-resolution satellite images similar to those in developed countries for use in various fields. The two satellites are managed and operated from an advanced control station located at the KACST headquarters.

Saudi expertise and competencies working in the field of satellite industry and development manufactured and tested the two high-accuracy remote-sensing reconnaissance satellites in accordance with the international standards in KACST laboratories.

Summary

The launch of the new satellite comes as part of the Kingdom’s Vision 2030 aiming to localize strategic technologies. The Kingdom seeks, through the space and aeronautical technology program, to achieve regional leadership in this vital sector relying on its preeminent position and vital capabilities that will allow the country to obtain its objective.

The Saudi Arabian Vision 2030 is the roadmap for this effort, and creating a high-technology research and industrial sector – such as space and satellite programs – is an important priority for Riyadh.

King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology has already launched 16 Saudi satellites between 2000 and 2019. It also participated in the implementation of scientific experiments in outer space in cooperation with the US space agency (NASA) and Stanford University on board the satellite Saudi Sat 4 in 2014. KACST also participated in the exploration mission of “Changi 4” Satellite with China.



[Sources: Arab News, The National, Space.com, Asharq Al Awsat, Al Arabiya]

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/38128

See more in this thread or the "made in KSA" thread on this section.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/11-a...-nasa-launch-own-space-program.627112/page-14

BTW while KSA is developing quickly and impressively in recent years (not withstanding that the state is notoriously secretive), there is still tons to learn and do. I am not going to be deluded like certain other regional entities and proclaim regional hegemony etc. nor do I believe that this should be the goal for KSA, unless future leaders will turn braindead and waste the money of the nation on policing the region and other fantasies. Such a thing would only make sense in the case the Arab world united and became a truly global superpower/powerhouse but I am not sure that this will occur in my lifetime again like in the past.
Click to expand...
Not the current missiles.. much better yet..

2-computer-closeup-1520973704.jpg



Mayak 22

zmayak.jpg


Mayak-UA-rockets.jpg


index.php


1159697.jpg
 
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The SC said:
Not the current missiles.. much better yet..

2-computer-closeup-1520973704.jpg


zmayak.jpg
Click to expand...

Yes, I know, the satellites were put into orbit outside of KSA for political reasons and what it would create of "controversy" if it was done indigenously. Many objections would occur in particular from a certain regional entity closely allied to its foster child (USA and West), if you know what I mean brother. The leadership is smarter than this so we prefer the "don't do, don't tell" approach that so far has proven successful in regards to our ballistic missile system, uranium extraction with our Chinese partners, nuclear reactor (s) etc.

See post 40, bro.

TheBlackCoat said:
See my signature.
Click to expand...

You might be an American citizen (there are 3.5 million Americans of Arab origin) but it is obvious for everyone remotely "smart" that you are of Indian origin, hence the need to turn this into a Pakistan-India discussion or create a divide when there is none. It is understandable but don't be surprised if you are called out for it. It is no different to other cheerleaders here who are blindly supporting sides in the Middle East despite having no direct connection to those countries, peoples and regimes in power. It is rather pathetic if you ask me. As a neutral Muslim from say Nigeria, Indonesia or Pakistan, I would not blindly support any side/regime, as neither is faultless and there is always the undeniable fact of not being able to equal the actions of governments in power with that of the people. Even in democratic nations like say the US, the average American did not vote for George Bush for him to start a war on terror (I am here thinking about the Iraq War that began in 2003 and the whole bogus lies that were used to start it and the mess it created for the US and the entire region) and waste trillions of dollars and 1000's of US soldiers lives on largely pointless conflicts and quick sand conflicts, while the real rivals (China and Russia) have only gotten stronger and taken advantage of it.
 
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Aspen said:
Drones and missiles are more effective and cheaper than F35. Saudis should save their money and not waste it on F35 if they want to improve their domestic military products. I have confidence that Saudi can make good equipment but spending money elsewhere will not help that. US will gladly sell weapons to Saudis even if the Pentagon knows they are useless. Saudi patriot defenses were useless against Aramco strike and US even had to move their own CENTCOM from Qatar to South Carolina after they realized how vulnerable they were to Iranian missiles. If there is any lesson Muslim countries should have learned over the past few decades, it is to not rely on US for anything. US will not hesitate to backstab their allies if if it suits them. Saudis should do what is in their own best interest.

Look at Turkey. They got kicked out of the F35 program but they are wiping the floor with everyone with their Turkish made drones. US thought it had taught Turkey a big lesson, but Turkey got the last laugh, they are using Turkish made laser equipped drones in Libya to wipe out Haftar who is now fleeing for his life, ironically backed by the Saudis. If Turkey was using F35 in Libya, US could have disabled it, but Turks made their drones themselves so they don't give a shit what the Pentagon thinks because they can't tell Turkey what to do with their own drones.

Don't be a fool like the Israelis and Indians who think F35 and Rafale will save them because it won't. The day will come when both F35 and Rafale are shot down, I'd rather lose a drone or fire some missiles than lose an advanced plane to the enemy and a captured pilot. With drones you don't have to worry if a couple get shot down, just keep making as many as you need. F35 is not as invincible as people think, this will become obvious when it starts getting deployed widely across the region and you will start to see how easy this thing is to hit. There's a reason US was so desperate to prevent Turkey from pairing it with S400, F35 is a sitting duck and its game over when S400 sees it.

Israel, Saudi, and India have gigantic military budgets but it has not helped them at all. Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan have smaller military budgets than all of them but they are more powerful than their adversaries.

It is not about how big your budget is or how fancy your plane is. What matters is how good your strategy is and how motivated your forces are. This mirage was was shattered when Pakistan shot down an Indian plane and captured their pilot, why Turkey can win in Libya by itself standing alone against Haftar backed by Saudi, UAE, Egypt, Russia and why Iran can hack and land US RQ-170 stealth drone with cyber warfare and then reverse engineer it.

A small military budget with average equipment run by shrewd people is better than a huge military budget with fancy equipment run by incompetent people. Saudi, Israel, and India can learn this lesson from Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Drones and missiles are not replacements for a fighter jet. Just because missiles can bring down a fighter jet doesn't mean you shouldn't buy them. By that logic, don't buy or build ships because there are anti ship missiles that can easily bring them down. Don't buy or build Submarines because anti submarine aircraft can destroy them with a single hit. Also for the record, Turkish drones performance is way exaggerated. Their drones are being shot down by the dozens in Syria and Libya. Same with Chinese drones. Drones are only useful against a total ragtag enemy. Any country that has missile defenses can easily bring them down. Can you imagine a drone flying and shooting targets along the loc? They might be good for anti terror operations, not for fighting wars.
 
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Arnold_In_Da_House said:
Drones and missiles are not replacements for a fighter jet. Just because missiles can bring down a fighter jet doesn't mean you shouldn't buy them. By that logic, don't buy or build ships because there are anti ship missiles that can easily bring them down. Don't buy or build Submarines because anti submarine aircraft can destroy them with a single hit. Also for the record, Turkish drones performance is way exaggerated. Their drones are being shot down by the dozens in Syria and Libya. Same with Chinese drones. Drones are only useful against a total ragtag enemy. Any country that has missile defenses can easily bring them down. Can you imagine a drone flying and shooting targets along the loc? They might be good for anti terror operations, not for fighting wars.
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They are good for reconnaissance though..even if they are downed the videos they have sent are still valuable..
 
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The SC said:
They are good for reconnaissance though..even if they are downed the videos they have sent are still valuable..
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Yes, surveillance drones might be useful. But again the are still too slow and awkward, they can easily be shot down. They might work against a severely depleted enemy like Syria, but in most cases, still rather useless. I don't see a drone launched by Iran or Saudi Arabia into each other's airspace surviving for too long. The attack by Iran on the Saudi oil refinery isn't a good example, that wasn't even a drone, it was more of a missile.
 
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Arnold_In_Da_House said:
Drones and missiles are not replacements for a fighter jet. Just because missiles can bring down a fighter jet doesn't mean you shouldn't buy them. By that logic, don't buy or build ships because there are anti ship missiles that can easily bring them down. Don't buy or build Submarines because anti submarine aircraft can destroy them with a single hit. Also for the record, Turkish drones performance is way exaggerated. Their drones are being shot down by the dozens in Syria and Libya. Same with Chinese drones. Drones are only useful against a total ragtag enemy. Any country that has missile defenses can easily bring them down. Can you imagine a drone flying and shooting targets along the loc? They might be good for anti terror operations, not for fighting wars.
Click to expand...

Drones will replace fighter jets and they already are starting to. Anyone that believes otherwise will inevitably be smacked into this reality whether they like it or not. Whoever starts first in the drone field will have the edge. F35 or Rafale is a huge liability to maintain compared to a drone not including pilot training and prohibitive operation expenses, God forbid your stealth F35 gets shot down. Even if a dozen drones get shot down, it is still cheaper than a single F35. So you could launch a swarm of dozens of drones or use 1 F35. The drones will win both militarily and economically. How many missiles do you think the enemy will waste trying to hit a dozen drones out of a swarm of dozens? Do the math, it favors the drone every time.

And these are not even advanced drones. Once fighter and hypersonic drones are introduced, conventional fighters will be dinosaurs of the the defense industry. Ballistic missiles are already more effective at hitting targets than most fighter jets.
 
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StormBreaker said:
Given the financial might of GCC, They should have already come up with Joint ventures and programs for ships fighters and tanks, I still hope it goes that way, sooner the better
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Financially GCC is very shaky. As seen recently, during sudden drop in oil price. GCC fall back strategy is their Return on investments in western countries, but 2008 crash and now now corona has also exposed fragility and Vurnability of investments. GCC purchase of military equipment more like a trade deal, West offer them Sanctions free Oil trade, in return for them to deposit money in western banks, (Just like French still extorting it’s old African colonies) via investments and overpriced military equipment. GCC is like a group of cow still able to milk, Isreal is the dog with fangs. US is the CowBoy and Europe is the family.

That’s basically the set up, GCC can pay big money to companies and scientists to come build stuff for them like Indian HAL Dhruv . But the day any of the cow Refuse to give milk, ‘Mercian cow body will slaughter it for meat. Case in point Libya and Iraq.

KSA doesn’t need F-35 for Iran, I think they want F-35 just because Israelis have it and they felt left over and unimportant.
 
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