Saudi industry to produce THAAD air defense subsystems

[Corruptistan]

Saudi industry to produce THAAD air defense subsystems​

By Agnes Helou
Thursday, Mar 10

A THAAD interceptor is launched from the Reagan Test Site on Kwajalein Atoll in the Republic of the Marshall Islands during a 2019 test. (Courtesy of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency)

BEIRUT — In the first program of its kind in Saudi Arabia, a local organization is teaming with American firm Lockheed Martin to produce parts for the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system.

During the World Defense Show in Riyadh, which took place March 6-9, the General Authority for Military Industries, or GAMI, announced it approved two local projects for the THAAD air defense system: the first for manufacturing missile interceptor launchers, and the second for producing the missile interceptor canisters.

In October 2017, the U.S. State Department approved a foreign military sale to Saudi Arabia for THAAD and related support, equipment and services for an estimated cost of $15 billion. About a year later, in November 2018, the kingdom signed a letter of offer and acceptance with the United States for Lockheed’s THAAD.

The projects are part of Saudi Arabia’s effort to domestically spend 50% of its money set aside for defense equipment and services by the year 2030, according to a statement by GAMI.

“Along this localization journey, and with the robust relations with our international defense partners, air domain defense readiness is expected to be greatly enhanced,” said Gasem Al-Maimani, GAMI’s deputy governor, said in a statement.

“Lockheed Martin is engaged with its Saudi partners across several capacity-building programs that are formulated to contribute to the realization of the country’s development goals. This announcement will significantly boost global and regional security while supporting job creation and economic prosperity in Saudi Arabia,” said Joseph Rank, chief executive for Lockheed Martin in Saudi Arabia and Africa.

During the inaugural World Defense Show, GAMI said, it signed 22 industrial partnerships with domestic and international defense companies, for a total value of 29.7 billion riyals (U.S. $7.9 billion). The agreements included the direct purchase of military systems, the building of production lines, the transfer of know-how and training, and the localization of technologies and services. Saudi companies are involved in 46% of the total value of deals made during the show.

Neither Lockheed Martin nor GAMI responded to Defense News’ inquiries for further information.

Saudi industry to produce THAAD air defense subsystems

In the first program of its kind in Saudi Arabia, a local organization is teaming with American firm Lockheed Martin to produce parts for the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system.

www.defensenews.com

In other news:

THAAD, in first operational use, destroys midrange ballistic missile in Houthi attack​

THAAD, in first operational use, destroys midrange ballistic missile in Houthi attack

The United Arab Emirates is the first to use the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense System in an attack by Houthi militants. It successfully took out a mid-range ballistic missile aimed at a civilian site in the country.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Corruptistan]

@Beny Karachun @dani191

How does the Iron Dome and Arrow 3 compare to the Patriot and THAAD? Would Israel (some time in the future) be willing to export the Iron Dome and Arrow 3? Probably export of the Iron Dome is more likely than Arrow 3.

My understanding is that the Iron Dome is a cheaper version of Patriot but otherwise very similar specs.

THAAD can intercept missiles at Mach 8.2. What about Arrow 3? It is hypersonic as well but I have seen no precise data in this regard.

 

[Kedikesenfare2]

I fear that these projects aren't as indigenous as it may look at first glance. The teams/companies/organisations/infrastructures being built or used in Saudi Arabia are almost always under the full control of their American partners. Very often the Saudis aren't allowed to absorb the TOT to its fullest extent.

 

[Corruptistan]

I fear that these projects aren't as indigenous as it may look at first glance. The teams/companies/organisations/infrastructures being built or used in Saudi Arabia are almost always under the full control of their American partners. Very often the Saudis aren't allowed to absorb the TOT to its fullest extent.

What makes you say that? Is there any evidence of this so far? I mean KSA's approach of minimum 50% of ToT/local production of every major deal is a relatively new policy (last few years) so I assume that it is hard to tell (already) whether it has worked or not. My impression is that it has given a lot of fruits so far or how that English saying is.

News such as this one is a great thing and would not have occurred 20 years ago.

 

[Kedikesenfare2]

What makes you say that?

The very state of Saudi Arabia makes me say that. It's literally the reality of Saudi Arabia

 

[Corruptistan]

The very state of Saudi Arabia makes me say that. It's literally the reality of Saudi Arabia

What reality is that? They have a functioning ballistic missile production as of now (Chinese help), turbo jet engine production with Brazil (3 years ago that was confirmed), in-house upkeep of the F-15 SA, local UAV production, a booming shipping industry, self-sufficiency in small arms and light weapons production and the list goes on. They have been developing their local military industries at a high and impressive speed in recent years and they are just beginning their journey.

Most importantly they have the local infrastructure in place (factories and production facilities), local talent pool and universities to support this booming industry. Obviously the capital (bottomless pit of money) and the political will as well.

Anyway can you give any examples of any key deals with ToT not working as intended? It is a simple question after all.

 

[Beny Karachun]

@Beny Karachun @dani191

How does the Iron Dome and Arrow 3 compare to the Patriot and THAAD? Would Israel (some time in the future) be willing to export the Iron Dome and Arrow 3? Probably export of the Iron Dome is more likely than Arrow 3.

My understanding is that the Iron Dome is a cheaper version of Patriot but otherwise very similar specs.

THAAD can intercept missiles at Mach 8.2. What about Arrow 3? It is hypersonic as well but I have seen no precise data in this regard.

Arrow 2 is comparable to THAAD.
Arrow 3 is exotmospheric interceptor, with allegedly 2,400km range. Interception speed might reach orbit velocity, Mach 23+.

Arrow 3 is way more advanced, it has a kill vehicle, able to maneuver in space using RCS thrusters. THAAD is designed to intercept a missile at a much later stage than Arrow 3.

Iron Dome is a much shorter range (70km radius), much cheaper system (40,000 dollars versus millions for an Arrow 3 interceptor) designed to intercept rockets, drones, cruise missiles at large volumes, and ballistic missiles at very short ranges.

Israel is willing to export its air defenses, it's probably the most profitable weapons business there is, as it comes with radars, control centers in addition to the launchers and missiles. However Israel could be vetoed by the US to not sell the weapons, like happened in Poland with Israeli David's Sling missile system, because they don't want us to compete with their systems.

 

[The SC]

Saudi industry to produce THAAD air defense subsystems​

By Agnes Helou
Thursday, Mar 10

A THAAD interceptor is launched from the Reagan Test Site on Kwajalein Atoll in the Republic of the Marshall Islands during a 2019 test. (Courtesy of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency)

BEIRUT — In the first program of its kind in Saudi Arabia, a local organization is teaming with American firm Lockheed Martin to produce parts for the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system.

During the World Defense Show in Riyadh, which took place March 6-9, the General Authority for Military Industries, or GAMI, announced it approved two local projects for the THAAD air defense system: the first for manufacturing missile interceptor launchers, and the second for producing the missile interceptor canisters.

In October 2017, the U.S. State Department approved a foreign military sale to Saudi Arabia for THAAD and related support, equipment and services for an estimated cost of $15 billion. About a year later, in November 2018, the kingdom signed a letter of offer and acceptance with the United States for Lockheed’s THAAD.

The projects are part of Saudi Arabia’s effort to domestically spend 50% of its money set aside for defense equipment and services by the year 2030, according to a statement by GAMI.

“Along this localization journey, and with the robust relations with our international defense partners, air domain defense readiness is expected to be greatly enhanced,” said Gasem Al-Maimani, GAMI’s deputy governor, said in a statement.

“Lockheed Martin is engaged with its Saudi partners across several capacity-building programs that are formulated to contribute to the realization of the country’s development goals. This announcement will significantly boost global and regional security while supporting job creation and economic prosperity in Saudi Arabia,” said Joseph Rank, chief executive for Lockheed Martin in Saudi Arabia and Africa.

During the inaugural World Defense Show, GAMI said, it signed 22 industrial partnerships with domestic and international defense companies, for a total value of 29.7 billion riyals (U.S. $7.9 billion). The agreements included the direct purchase of military systems, the building of production lines, the transfer of know-how and training, and the localization of technologies and services. Saudi companies are involved in 46% of the total value of deals made during the show.

Neither Lockheed Martin nor GAMI responded to Defense News’ inquiries for further information.

Saudi industry to produce THAAD air defense subsystems

In the first program of its kind in Saudi Arabia, a local organization is teaming with American firm Lockheed Martin to produce parts for the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system.

www.defensenews.com

In other news:

THAAD, in first operational use, destroys midrange ballistic missile in Houthi attack​

THAAD, in first operational use, destroys midrange ballistic missile in Houthi attack

The United Arab Emirates is the first to use the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense System in an attack by Houthi militants. It successfully took out a mid-range ballistic missile aimed at a civilian site in the country.

www.defensenews.com

THAAD was almost gone when king Saman was in Russuia and announced buying the S-400 with TOT.. the next day the US accepted the conditions of KSA for ToT and a closer date of delivery.. 2024 instead of 2027..

 

[Beny Karachun]

Israel already sold the Iron Dome to Azerbaijan, US and Romania, and Germany and probably a lot of Arab countries want to buy it.

Ukraine also wanted to buy it but Israel refused to sell for its own reasons.

Morocco, Germany, various NATO countries and Gulf countries want to buy Arrow 3/Iron Dome/David's Sling missiles.

Patriot is being replaced by the David's Sling in Israel and is planned to replace the Patriot in the US service (David's Sling is called the PAAC 4 in the US)

 

[Corruptistan]

Arrow 2 is comparable to THAAD.
Arrow 3 is exotmospheric interceptor, with allegedly 2,400km range. Interception speed might reach orbit velocity, Mach 23+.

Arrow 3 is way more advanced, it has a kill vehicle, able to maneuver in space using RCS thrusters. THAAD is designed to intercept a missile at a much later stage than Arrow 3.

Iron Dome is a much shorter range (70km radius), much cheaper system (40,000 dollars versus millions for an Arrow 3 interceptor) designed to intercept rockets, drones, cruise missiles at large volumes, and ballistic missiles at very short ranges.

Israel is willing to export its air defenses, it's probably the most profitable weapons business there is, as it comes with radars, control centers in addition to the launchers and missiles. However Israel could be vetoed by the US to not sell the weapons, like happened in Poland with Israeli David's Sling missile system, because they don't want us to compete with their systems.

Is the Arrow 3 not a JV with the US (MDA)? Mach 23+ sounds insane. Has the Arrow 3 ever been used in combat yet? Exoatmospheric interceptors are designed against ICBM's. Is that not a bit of an overkill as Israel has no enemies with such a capability?

I was not aware of that. Strange as those systems are usually developed jointly with the US. Has the David Sling replaced all Patriot's in Israel?

THAAD was almost gone when king Saman was in Russuia and announced buying the S-400 with TOT.. the next day the US accepted the conditions of KSA for ToT and a closer date of delivery.. 2024 instead of 2027..

I honestly think that the S-400 is vastly inferior to THAAD so that decision was a good one.

Israel already sold the Iron Dome to Azerbaijan, US and Romania, and Germany and probably a lot of Arab countries want to buy it.

Ukraine also wanted to buy it but Israel refused to sell for its own reasons.

Morocco, Germany, various NATO countries and Gulf countries want to buy Arrow 3/Iron Dome/David's Sling missiles.

Patriot is being replaced by the David's Sling in Israel and is planned to replace the Patriot in the US service (David's Sling is called the PAAC 4 in the US)

KSA/GCC could be the main buyer of Israeli weapons in the future. They could potentially finance Israeli projects far more generously than the US. KSA/GCC have far more to gain from cooperation with Israel than with the Palestinians who cannot over anything in this regard. No offense but this is the reality.

Anyway I am curious what will happen when Biden (incompetent clown IMO) visits and whether this Arab NATO/Middle East NATO will be officially formed. I think that pragmatism and national self-interests rule the world today. Religion alone is not enough and such sentiments are for the masses, not leaders or decision makers.

A big part of me would like to see what Arabs and Israelis could develop jointly. There is a lot of potential in this regard.

 

[The SC]

What reality is that? They have a functioning ballistic missile production as of now (Chinese help), turbo jet engine production with Brazil (3 years ago that was confirmed), in-house upkeep of the F-15 SA, local UAV production, a booming shipping industry, self-sufficiency in small arms and light weapons production and the list goes on. They have been developing their local military industries at a high and impressive speed in recent years.

Most importantly they have the local infrastructure in place (factories and production facilities), local talent pool and universities to support this booming industry. Obviously the capital (bottomless pit of money) and the political will as well.

Anyway can you give any examples of any key deals with ToT not working as intended? It is a simple question after all.

There is so much ToT that KSA is absorbing than anyone can imagine.. there is ToT with the US, Russia, France, the UK, South Korea, Brazil, China, Japan, France, Ukraine, Pakistan, the UAE, Turkey, South Africa, Spain and many more.. to name a few.. and over all it is a very potent ToT.. and from private as well as government sectors of these countries.. no one should be surprised to see SAMI in the top 20 manufacturing giants by 2030..

I honestly think that the S-400 is vastly inferior to THAAD so that decision was a good one.

Not the same category.. but the US seemed to fear the S-400 for some reason.. and KSA played on that fear and succeeded in getting what it wanted.. at the time it wanted.. HaHaHa!

 

[The SC]

KSA/GCC could be the main buyer of Israeli weapons in the future. They could potentially finance Israeli projects far more generously than the US. KSA/GCC have far more to gain from cooperation with Israel than with the Palestinians who cannot over anything in this regard. No offense but this is the reality.

Anyway I am curious what will happen when Biden (incompetent clown IMO) visits and whether this Arab NATO/Middle East NATO will be officially formed. I think that pragmatism and national self-interests rule the world today. Religion alone is not enough and such sentiments are for the masses, not leaders or decision makers.

A big part of me would like to see what Arabs and Israelis could develop jointly. There is a lot of potential in this regard.

Just two GCC countries might buy weapons from Usrael if with ToT.. namely the UAE and Bahrain .. and Morocco from North Africa.. KSA doesn't need ToT from Usrael..

Maybe after Usrael accepts the two states solution.. despite the Palestinians have nothing to offer in regard to military affairs.. it is a question of principle..the ball is in the US and its lackey Usrael..

 

[Corruptistan]

Just two GCC countries might by weapons from Usrael if with ToT.. namely the UAE and Bahrain .. and Morocco from North Africa.. KSA doesn't need ToT from Usrael..

Why not? KSA is the biggest Arab economy and the most developed Arab country overall. Not only that, they are almost a neighbor of Israel. Look at a map.

If they develop official relations with Israel (ideally when a two-state solution emerges), they should be working together. A lot to gain here from military cooperation to technology such as desalination, agriculture, combat of desertification etc. Cousins working together. Don't forget that over half of Israeli's population is composed of Jews from Arab countries, including modern-day KSA. Jews are our closest kin as Muslims. I believe in Jewish-Muslim cooperation. There is no innate hatred among both IMO. Rather the opposite.

Is it not about high time to spend your time, money, energy on more useful things than hatred, wars etc.?

 

[The SC]

Why not? KSA is the biggest Arab economy and the most developed Arab country overall. Not only that, they are almost a neighbor of Israel. Look at a map.

View attachment 858990

View attachment 858991

If they develop official relations with Israel (ideally when a two-state solution emerges), they should be working together. A lot to gain here from military cooperation to technology such as desalination, agriculture, combat of desertification etc. Cousins working together. Don't forget that over half of Israeli's population is composed of Jews from Arab countries, including modern-day KSA. Jews are our closest kin as Muslims. I believe in Jewish-Muslim cooperation. There is no innate hatred among both IMO. Rather the opposite.

Is it not about high time to spend your time, money, energy on more useful things than hatred, wars etc.?

Maybe after Usrael accepts the two states solution.. despite the Palestinians have nothing to offer in regard to military affairs.. it is a question of principle..the ball is in the US and its lackey Usrael..

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

I honestly think that the S-400 is vastly inferior to THAAD so that decision was a good one.

Russia weapons may be good on paper but under perform during the actual war. Never trust any Russia weapons. They are a piece of junk.