Saudi Arabia has been granted full membership of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)

[The SC]

It is a well known fact that Saudi influence over other GCC countries is absolute and that no GCC country goes against Saudi decision. It was Saudi decision to vote in favor of Pakistan in the initial vote and then to vote against Pakistan in the re-voting which led to our Grey listing. It is also well known that Saudi Arabia sold us out for a full membership of FATF.

Can you explain why KSA was going to be black listed too.. It had no vote capacity at that time.. now it has..

The day we withdraw our military umbrella from Saudi Arabia would be the day you start losing sleep. That is a nightmare which you do not even want to consider, ever.

You might lose your sleep for sure, not KSA backed by 500 million Arabs and a billion Muslims, just swallow your sick pride and go ask your leaders..

You have all kinds of toys and yet you cannot use them yourself, you need professionals to use those toys even when you need to defend your own borders. It has to be the US or the UK or Pakistani Military. Your inclination to warfare and fighting, well, it is known. You know what saddens me the most, it is the fact that you will spend hundreds of billions in procuring US weapons but will NOT get Transfer of Technology as does India. After spending trillion of USD on procurement, you could have been a production powerhouse of western technology and yet you hardly have any such industry and still need to keep pouring Billions of USD to retain your monarchy lest the US decide to bring democracy to the kingdom.

You are obviously sick jealous of Saudi Arabia's capabilities and weapon systems, as well as the reforms taking place.. Your virtual professionalism in war can't match 10% of Arab professionalism or experience in real war, and guess what, against the most advanced armies of the world, a.k.a, Usrael backed by none other than the US..You think you can handle that with your theoretical "professionalism"?.. you must be sick..

And don't be delusional, the only reason you 'bail' your favorite Governments in Pakistan is to ensure the military safety net that you require from Pakistan. The day you don't need that will be the day you start bowing to Indian PM's such as Modi, the Muslim killer.

This is yet a sick statement, since the Saudi support to Pakistan dates to the inception of the later.. meaning all governments of Pakistan.. I suggest you go take a back seat and reflect about these matters before you post idiocies..

In regards to your weak argument about your kingdom's reluctance to invest in Pakistan, your guarantor is the Military, always and so your investment is always secure. Things would have been different under Shah Fahad and Shah Faisal.

You seem to be a very ignorant chap.. if you do not know that the Pakistani military needs KSA's oil supply guarantees in any case of war or crises.. So what are you blabbering about sick mind.. We love Pakistan and we want to guarantee its survival.. and it is mutual..

 

[Mav3rick]

Can you explain why KSA was going to be black listed too.. It had no vote capacity at that time.. now it has..

I have already said whatever I had to say, we can revisit this after the next FATF plenary.

You might lose your sleep for sure, not KSA backed by 500 million Arabs and a billion Muslims, just swallow your sick pride and go ask your leaders..

I do not really wish to get engaged in your nonsense, especially on proven points where even today there are US Military personnel and Pakistani Military personnel deployed for active combat and defense duties of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabian forces are unable to defend even their own border against light Yemeni forces let alone face a decent and organized military; you live in the delusion that a Billion Muslims and 500 million Arabs would come to the rescue of Saudi Arabia and I have no doubt that a Billion Muslims, including 300 Million Pakistanis, would gladly give their lives in protection of the 2 Holy sites but no Muslim would be willing to defend the illegal and illegitimate, non-Islamic monarchy of Saudi Arabia.

You are obviously sick jealous of Saudi Arabia's capabilities and weapon systems, as well as the reforms taking place.. Your virtual professionalism in war can't match 10% of Arab professionalism or experience in real war, and guess what, against the most advanced armies of the world, a.k.a, Usrael backed by none other than the US..You think you can handle that with your theoretical "professionalism"?.. you must be sick..

You think? You are wrong!

I am not jealous, I am pissed that Saudi Arabia has spent hundreds of Billions of USD which is used by the US to further augment and enhance her weapon systems for use against Muslim countries all around the world. Instead, the Saudi Government could have supported other Muslim countries by investing in R&D of developing Muslim states. Saudi Arabia could have united the Muslim world under a single Muslim force as Saudi Arabia had the finances and the religious clout to do so but it failed on both accounts.

As for your nonsense about Saudi Military capabilities vis-a-vis the capabilities of Pakistani Military, well..........no comment really as you had to go so far to put some emphasis in your point, you broke it altogether.

This is yet a sick statement, since the Saudi support to Pakistan dates to the inception of the later.. meaning all governments of Pakistan.. I suggest you go take a back seat and reflect about these matters before you post idiocies..

You seem to be a very ignorant chap.. if you do not know that the Pakistani military needs KSA's oil supply guarantees in any case of war or crises.. So what are you blabbering about sick mind.. We love Pakistan and we want to guarantee its survival.. and it is mutual..

There was a time when Saudi support was unconditional and so was our support to Saudi Arabia. Things are not the same, our relations are not the same and the overall geopolitical situation of the world is not the same. It is not as if Saudi support is unconditional and that they do it because of their love for Pakistan and Pakistanis......I know how much Saudis love Pakistan and Pakistanis, any Pakistani visiting Saudi Arabia can easily compare their treatment of Pakistanis vs Indians.

And yes, in case of war, Pakistan will depend on Saudi Oil.....similarly, in case of invasion, Saudi Arabia will depend on Pakistani Military to defend its borders.

 

[The SC]

I have already said whatever I had to say, we can revisit this after the next FATF plenary.

I do not really wish to get engaged in your nonsense, especially on proven points where even today there are US Military personnel and Pakistani Military personnel deployed for active combat and defense duties of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabian forces are unable to defend even their own border against light Yemeni forces let alone face a decent and organized military; you live in the delusion that a Billion Muslims and 500 million Arabs would come to the rescue of Saudi Arabia and I have no doubt that a Billion Muslims, including 300 Million Pakistanis, would gladly give their lives in protection of the 2 Holy sites but no Muslim would be willing to defend the illegal and illegitimate, non-Islamic monarchy of Saudi Arabia.

The non-sense is only yours.. where everyone on the planet knows that the US presence in KSA is limited to training and support on new weapon systems bought from the US.. as well as training by Pakistani troops provided to the Saudi forces..So where did you get your illusions about US and Pakistani troops engaged in active combat and defense duties? any sources or facts? You do sound like some Al Qaeda guy when talking about legitimacy of the Saudi Monarchy..lol, and too much ignorant of the Arab world and the Muslim world relationship with Saudi Arabia..the de facto leader of both..

You think? You are wrong!

I am not jealous, I am pissed that Saudi Arabia has spent hundreds of Billions of USD which is used by the US to further augment and enhance her weapon systems for use against Muslim countries all around the world. Instead, the Saudi Government could have supported other Muslim countries by investing in R&D of developing Muslim states. Saudi Arabia could have united the Muslim world under a single Muslim force as Saudi Arabia had the finances and the religious clout to do so but it failed on both accounts.

As for your nonsense about Saudi Military capabilities vis-a-vis the capabilities of Pakistani Military, well..........no comment really as you had to go so far to put some emphasis in your point, you broke it altogether.

Once again you failed in your assessment of things.. one US state is richer than KSA.. so here goes your argument about Saudi Arabia financing the US arms industry.. enough said for your non-sense.. and empty talk in the air

Saudi capabilities are the Arab capabilities.. short of nuclear weapons.. they are very capable of defending themselves and proved it many times..add to it other Muslim nations capabilities.. and never forget that Saudis are warriors dressed in white..during peace time..

There was a time when Saudi support was unconditional and so was our support to Saudi Arabia. Things are not the same, our relations are not the same and the overall geopolitical situation of the world is not the same. It is not as if Saudi support is unconditional and that they do it because of their love for Pakistan and Pakistanis......I know how much Saudis love Pakistan and Pakistanis, any Pakistani visiting Saudi Arabia can easily compare their treatment of Pakistanis vs Indians.

And yes, in case of war, Pakistan will depend on Saudi Oil.....similarly, in case of invasion, Saudi Arabia will depend on Pakistani Military to defend its borders.

So how do you know if the mutual support is conditional or still unconditional?
As far as we know..Saudi Arabia and the UAE were the first to run to support Pakistan in its latest financial crisis.. you call that conditional?

[/QUOTE]

 

[Mav3rick]

The non-sense is only yours.. where everyone on the planet knows that the US presence in KSA is limited to training and support on new weapon systems bought from the US.. as well as training by Pakistani troops provided to the Saudi forces..So where did you get your illusions about US and Pakistani troops engaged in active combat and defense duties? any sources or facts? You do sound like some Al Qaeda guy when talking about legitimacy of the Saudi Monarchy..lol, and too much ignorant of the Arab world and the Muslim world relationship with Saudi Arabia..the de facto leader of both..

Do you seriously mean to tell me that you do not have US military cover in case of war with Iran or some other serious military power? Have we already forgotten that Prince Sultan Base housed over 50,000 US Soldiers during the Iraq war? Are Pakistani military forces not deployed to defend the 2 holy sites??? Pakistani troops are active combat duty troops deployed in Saudi Arabia which mean they are ready for combat to defend aggression on the 2 holy cities of Saudi Arabia, and if need be to defend the territory of Saudi Arabia. Pakistani Army chief's and leaders have open stated the will and intention to defend Saudi territory at all cost.

What has the non-Islamic tradition of appointing sons as Kings got to do with Arab world? Who cares about the darned Arab world? I care about the Muslim world. The only reason Saudi Arabia is believed to be leader of the Muslim world is because of the respect that the region deserves because of Prophets and because of Makkah and Madina.

But what is the connection of the illegitimate and anti-Islam system of monarchy and kingdom with anything?

Once again you failed in your assessment of things.. one US state is richer than KSA.. so here goes your argument about Saudi Arabia financing the US arms industry.. enough said for your non-sense.. and empty talk in the air

Saudi capabilities are the Arab capabilities.. short of nuclear weapons.. they are very capable of defending themselves and proved it many times..*** to it other Muslim nations capabilities.. and never forget that Saudis are warriors dressed in white..during peace time..

Yes, the US is indeed richer than the Kingdom. However, the wealth of the US is NOT unlimited and it too needs to generate funds to pour into R&D. The Kingdom is the best source of funding and so Saudi Arabia invests Billions & Billions of USD into the US economy and US Arms industry.

As for capability, when was the last time you guys fought a war? A real war involving troops on the ground.

So how do you know if the mutual support is conditional or still unconditional?
As far as we know..Saudi Arabia and the UAE were the first to run to support Pakistan in its latest financial crisis.. you call that conditional?

You ran to support Pakistan? How much support did you provide exactly, have you bailed Pakistan out of the crises?? Are you assisting Pakistan with its finances and loan repayments? Are you ensuring that you use the God given resources to dig another Muslim country out of the mess that it finds itself in? Were you running to Pakistan's assistance in 1999 when you prevented Musharraf from executing Nawaz Sharif and for providing him support and comforts in and after the exile for so many years?

 

[Zibago]

KSA in FATF will be good for Pakistan

Nah they will support us from getting blacklisted the Salman administration

LOL.

There are 3.5 million Arabs in the US. The by far largest Muslim ethnic group in the US. Not a single Arab was killed due to a hate crime post 9/11 motivated due to that incident. Muslims are fine in the US, stop saying otherwise. If that was not the case 100.000's of Arab students from KSA and other Arab and Muslim states would not be arriving to this day and thriving by large. Never experienced a single hostile episode in the US when I studied there for 1 year as an exchange student (California).

Similarly Westerners are fine in the GCC despite their governments having committed 100's of 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This school boy logic/simplistic thinking is a bit of a joke as well as your agenda to blame every misery in Pakistan on KSA of all countries. It is laughable. No sane person can take it seriously.

Muslims being safe in US is a long call lets lets not exaggerate generosity of America
They are the same group that voted for a Muslim ban

It is a well known fact that Saudi influence over other GCC countries is absolute and that no GCC country goes against Saudi decision. It was Saudi decision to vote in favor of Pakistan in the initial vote and then to vote against Pakistan in the re-voting which led to our Grey listing. It is also well known that Saudi Arabia sold us out for a full membership of FATF.





The day we withdraw our military umbrella from Saudi Arabia would be the day you start losing sleep. That is a nightmare which you do not even want to consider, ever.





You have all kinds of toys and yet you cannot use them yourself, you need professionals to use those toys even when you need to defend your own borders. It has to be the US or the UK or Pakistani Military. Your inclination to warfare and fighting, well, it is known. You know what saddens me the most, it is the fact that you will spend hundreds of billions in procuring US weapons but will NOT get Transfer of Technology as does India. After spending trillion of USD on procurement, you could have been a production powerhouse of western technology and yet you hardly have any such industry and still need to keep pouring Billions of USD to retain your monarchy lest the US decide to bring democracy to the kingdom.

And don't be delusional, the only reason you 'bail' your favorite Governments in Pakistan is to ensure the military safety net that you require from Pakistan. The day you don't need that will be the day you start bowing to Indian PM's such as Modi, the Muslim killer.





In regards to your weak argument about your kingdom's reluctance to invest in Pakistan, your guarantor is the Military, always and so your investment is always secure. Things would have been different under Shah Fahad and Shah Faisal.

China also did the number on us we have to understand the present US administration is bit harsh on Pakistan
International relations aren't a zero sum game

 

[Mav3rick]

China also did the number on us we have to understand the present US administration is bit harsh on Pakistan
International relations aren't a zero sum game

China did not want to lose face in a lost battle, there was no point in China voting for a lost cause and they frankly advised us of the same before they abstained from voting in our favour.

 

[Metanoia]

significant Uzbek community, many naturalized as well. Hijaz is truly a melting pot.

True that. I have spent roughly 3 years living in Hejaz (Madina) as well. One of my good Saudi friend is of Uzbek ancestry, i.e. his great grandparents migrated from Bukhara or Samarkand. There are plenty of Saudis with non-bedouin ancestry, Central Asian, Turkish, Farsis, Indian, as well as African.

 

[HAIDER]

Saudi tumharay baap ka ghulam Hain Jo tumhain bachain ga
When they asked Pakistan to join Yemen war people like you were saying we are not mercenary and on the other hand you expect them to help you whenever you are in need of help

Well, if you have somone in your family serving good military post , ask Pak-Saudi military cooperation . You will be surprised. Our armed forces working very low profile for years, due to its professionalism, they never beat the drums. They are building Saudi missile program.

 

[IceCold]

Saudi Arabia voted against Pakistan to get the full membership. I doubt Saudi Arabia will have a change of heart especially when US is leading the witch hunt against Pakistan.

I think it was before MBS visited Pakistan. Now the guy calls himself as Pakistan's ambassador to SA. We are going to take him up on his word. @Khafee

 

[The SC]

Do you seriously mean to tell me that you do not have US military cover in case of war with Iran or some other serious military power? Have we already forgotten that Prince Sultan Base housed over 50,000 US Soldiers during the Iraq war? Are Pakistani military forces not deployed to defend the 2 holy sites??? Pakistani troops are active combat duty troops deployed in Saudi Arabia which mean they are ready for combat to defend aggression on the 2 holy cities of Saudi Arabia, and if need be to defend the territory of Saudi Arabia. Pakistani Army chief's and leaders have open stated the will and intention to defend Saudi territory at all cost.

What has the non-Islamic tradition of appointing sons as Kings got to do with Arab world? Who cares about the darned Arab world? I care about the Muslim world. The only reason Saudi Arabia is believed to be leader of the Muslim world is because of the respect that the region deserves because of Prophets and because of Makkah and Madina.

But what is the connection of the illegitimate and anti-Islam system of monarchy and kingdom with anything?





Yes, the US is indeed richer than the Kingdom. However, the wealth of the US is NOT unlimited and it too needs to generate funds to pour into R&D. The Kingdom is the best source of funding and so Saudi Arabia invests Billions & Billions of USD into the US economy and US Arms industry.

As for capability, when was the last time you guys fought a war? A real war involving troops on the ground.





You ran to support Pakistan? How much support did you provide exactly, have you bailed Pakistan out of the crises?? Are you assisting Pakistan with its finances and loan repayments? Are you ensuring that you use the God given resources to dig another Muslim country out of the mess that it finds itself in? Were you running to Pakistan's assistance in 1999 when you prevented Musharraf from executing Nawaz Sharif and for providing him support and comforts in and after the exile for so many years?

- The US troops were in KSA to liberate Kuwait, not defend Saudi Arabia, who has refused them on its territory before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait..

- Pakistan has currently around 10 000 troops in KSA with a training duty..but in case of an attack on Saudi Arabia, everyone knows that Pakistan will assist with men and material as Pakistani Army chief's and leaders have openly stated the will and intention of Pakistan to defend Saudi territory at all cost..

- Where does Islam prohibits appointing sons of kings as future kings when based on merit? maybe you should ask the Ottomans and some other Khalifat before them.. they most likely knew better if it was non-Islamic or not...As Arabs we care about the Arab world which is a big part of the Muslim world, hence we care about both..Do you care about the Muslim world and not about Pakistan?

- Nope, Japan, South Korea, Germany, China, France and many other US allies or friends invest more in the US than KSA..get your facts right before posting baseless opinions again..

- Look up how much support for yourself..you'll find many threads showing that here on PDF or you can visit the net..

- War are still going on in the Arab world..and that is experience on the ground..It never stopped since the establishment of Usrael..Talk about some war experience(s)..Egypt, Syria, Iraq vs Iran, Libya, Yemen, Lebanon, Morocco vs Algeria.. a 15 years war of the desert..Sudan, Palestine...to name a few without details..So war for the Arabs is an ongoing thing, almost a part of life..

- Musharraf executing Nawaz Sharif would have created big problems for Pakistan not for Saudi Arabia.. think about it..

I think it was before MBS visited Pakistan. Now the guy calls himself as Pakistan's ambassador to SA. We are going to take him up on his word. @Khafee

Saudi Arabia didn't have a "vote" at that time.. to vote against Pakistan.. so the premise is basically false..

 

[halupridol]

In threads like these I feel sorry for pakistanis.
Specially the "arabized" ones.(usne toh sabko arabized bol dia he)
Wo kehte hai na,,,,Ek hijaji hazar mussalio pe bhari.
Mujhe samajh nahi ata kyu subcontinent ke log apni jaidade bech ke in arbo ki tatti saaf karne chale jate hai.

Arey yaar har bar bhag jaoge toh country theek kon karega?
Mehnat karne se itni nafrat hai ke joote kha loge in jaise logo se.

 

[khanmubashir]

They voted against Pakistan.

They abstained actually as were only observer then so no vote wouldn't have an effect but now after becoming member it has

 

[B.K.N]

Well, if you have somone in your family serving good military post , ask Pak-Saudi military cooperation . You will be surprised. Our armed forces working very low profile for years, due to its professionalism, they never beat the drums. They are building Saudi missile program.

Ham jab dekhaingay tab manain ga

 

[Reddington]

@Dubious @waz
Please close this thread. Fruitless discussion going on here.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

KSA in FATF will be good for Pakistan

Nah they will support us from getting blacklisted the Salman administration

Muslims being safe in US is a long call lets lets not exaggerate generosity of America
They are the same group that voted for a Muslim ban

I was talking about the American people by large. Especially the educated people that are mostly found in the larger cities (especially affluent areas) and in particular in environments such as universities or colleges. It is likely very different in say rural Alabama (not visited nor planning to) where the average Joe has likely never met a single foreigner in his life.

That and Muslims not really suffering much physical harm since 2001 within the US.

The US deep state and government have little in common with the average person like in most countries of the world.

Well, if you have somone in your family serving good military post , ask Pak-Saudi military cooperation . You will be surprised. Our armed forces working very low profile for years, due to its professionalism, they never beat the drums. They are building Saudi missile program.

Pakistan is contributing to the ballistic missile program of KSA that has been in the works for 30+ years and where KSA itself and several partners (mainly China) is contributing as well. It is a joint endeavor, Haider.

True that. I have spent roughly 3 years living in Hejaz (Madina) as well. One of my good Saudi friend is of Uzbek ancestry, i.e. his great grandparents migrated from Bukhara or Samarkand. There are plenty of Saudis with non-bedouin ancestry, Central Asian, Turkish, Farsis, Indian, as well as African.

While most of the population is indigenous Arab in all of the historical regions of KSA (North, Hijaz, Najd, South, Eastern Arabia and everything in between) however Hijaz in particular is a melting pot in many ways as most city dwellers (not including the mountain or desert villages here) are mixed. After all Hijaz was and has been for 1400 years the most cosmopolitan area of the Muslim world arguably. Afro-Arabs and every Muslim ethnicity basically from Bosnians to Javanese people. Most have obviously adopted the local Hijazi culture and melted in (talking about the old migration not the recent one) but even the recent one have as well although people that strongly identify with their clan or tribe, might not want to marry their daughter of to say a Hausa or Uzbek. Basically all of us humans are mixed and Arabia being situated between the 3 most important continents (Asia, Africa, Europe) and some of the main trade routes of the ancient world (land and sea) is not any different. I have always been astonished how ignorant people (foreigners) are about this fact even though it is plain obvious if one knows just a bit about Islamic and non-Islamic history, lol.