Saudi Arabia discovers 9,000 year-old civilization

[HAIDER]

I would have given you a positive rating if I could, lol. Thanks a lot for the material bro. In particular in those COVID-19 times and with the Ramadan around.

Yes, the Arabian Peninsula, is a treasure trove for the study of the earliest human migrations and prehistory and ancient history (established history) given its historical richness, existing known ancient civilizations and pre-historic cultures, geographic location, climatic abundance of (not many millennia again most of Arabia was extremely fertile and home to some of the largest lakes and rivers in the world - in fact the 100's of wadis in KSA and Arabia - wadi can be translated as dried out rivers that only spring to live in case of rainfall or occasionally each year) are a testament of as seen on that map from the BBC article.

At the same time, Arabia, even to this day, is a largely undiscovered area for archeologists. In particular KSA was largely closed off in recent times, did not prevent many visitors, in particular Westerners, from collecting 1000's of ancient artifacts.

Saudi Arabia recovers 52,000 illegally taken priceless artifacts

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1592496/saudi-arabia

BTW for those interested, I can highly recommend the work of Prof Michael Petraglia, who is the professor of human evolution and prehistory at the School of Archaeology, Oxford University. He used to have (I think he still has) a very interesting Twitter profile with much focus on Arabia and Horn of Africa (Ethiopia - apparently where humanity first originated many years ago).

https://twitter.com/mdpetraglia

Since we are on a Pakistani forum, I have always had an interest in the relationship of ancient civilizations in what is modern-day Eastern Arabia and Southern Iraq (basically the Eastern part of the Arab world) and IVC which is actually a rather deep bond. Primarily Dilmun, Magan, Sumer and IVC.

Linkages of Sumer, Dilmun and Mohenjo-daro

https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/dilmun0.htm

Dilmun, one of most important ancient civilisations of the region and said to date to the third millennium BC, was a hub on a major trading route between Mesopotamia - the world's oldest civilisation - and the Indus Valley in South Asia.

It is also believed that Dilmun had commercial ties with ancient sites at Elam in Oman, Alba in Syria and Haittan in Turkey.​

I think that the mighty Rub' al-Khali desert might have quite a lot of surprises given its geological history as well, personally, but this is also based on some scholarly work. How/when/if that will ever be confirmed by any findings is more difficult to tell given the inhospitable geography and enormous size.

For the very same reason (pre-history and general curiosity about the history of mankind) I have always had an interest in Ethiopia and the Horn of Africa as well.

Greeks and Roman ever been there ?

 

[Mr Happy]

Walaikum Assalam brother,
Time is not mentioned in hadiths as far as I know. I could be wrong but ofcourse I believe everything that is written in Holy Quran and hadiths.

My dear brother,

1. Surah Al-Ankabut, verse 14.
Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says in relation to Prophet Nuh Alayhi Salaam: And we certainly sent Nuh to his people, and he remained among them a thousand years minus fifty years.

2. A man asked Rasoolullah Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam about how much time was there between Prophet or Nabi Adam Alayhi Salaam and Nabi Nuh Alayhi Salaam. He (Rasoolullah Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam) said: ten centuries.

Narrated by Ibn Hibban Rahmatullah Alayhi in his Saheeh. Also, by al-Hakim Rahmatullah Alayhi. Imam ibn Kathir Rahmatullah Alayhi said it was Sahih according to even the conditions of Imam Muslim Rahmatullah Alayhi. This is mentioned in al-Bidaayah wa-l Nihaayah.

3. Then Rasoolullah Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam was asked about how long was there between Nabi Nuh Alayhi Salaam and Nabi Ibrahim Alayhi Salaam. Rasoolullah Sallalahu Alayhi stated: ten centuries.
Narrated by Imam al-Hakim in his al-Mustadrak and he said this hadith is Saheeh according to the conditions of Imam Muslim Rahmatullah Alayhi. This hadith is mentioned by Imam Tabarani Rahmatullah Alayhi in his al-Mu'jam al-Kabeer. Shaykh Albani Rahmatullah Alayhi also classed it as Saheeh.

4. Imam Muhammad ibn Sa'ad Rahmatullah Alayhi states in his book al-Tabaqat that Sahabi Ibn Abbas Radiyallaha Anhu said: between Moosa ibn Imraan Alayhi Salaam and Isa ibn Maryam Alayhi Salaam there were 1700 years. And between the birth of Isa Alayhi Salaam and Nabi Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam there were 599 years. (Tafsir al-Qurtubi).

5. Imam ibn Hajar Rahmatullah Alayhi stated in Fath al-Baari that: the narrators are agreed that the period of the Jews until the coming of Nabi Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam was more than 2000 years, and the period of the Christians until the coming of Nabi Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam was 600 years.

6. Imam Bukhaari Rahmatullah Alayhi also narrated that Sahabi Salman al-Farisi Radiyallaha Anhu said: the period between Isa Alayhi Salam and our Nabi Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam was 600 years.


Even if these are lunar years we can get an idea:

Nabi Sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam was born approximately 570CE.

Subtract 600 lunar years to the time of Nabi Isa Alayhi Salaam. Approximately 13 BCE.

Then subtract 1700 lunar years to the time of Nabi Musa Alayhi Salaam. Approximately 1666 BCE.

Nabi Ibrahim Alayhi Salaam's time is sometimes given as approximately 2100 to 1900 BCE. Say we estimate 2100 BCE.

Then subtract 1000 lunar years to the time of Nabi Nuh Alayhi Salaam. Approximately
3072 BCE.

Then we subtract 1000 lunar years to the time of Nabi Adam Alayhi Salaam. Approximately 4044 BCE.

The above are estimates using the ahadith and tafseer. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala knows the exact dates and best.

So, where has the 9,000 year old figure for the Saudi Arabian excavation came from? It seems unintentionally miscalculated, or exaggerated.

 

[donkeykong]

the word civilization is a bit of a stretch. Culture is a better word.

Pretty much all ancient nations and cultures progressed at roughly the same time as ideas and technology flowed from East to West and vice versa.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Reading your posts really makes me want to explore Saudi Arabia more. I've almost been to every city but there is still so much left to see.

In Sha Allah after everything gets back to normal I will visit Al-Ulla. For now I am ordering my camping gear from amazon and aliexpress

Brother, KSA is simply too vast to visit all corners of it for the average human. You would need to travel for years upon years in a row and visit a new place each day. The best part about the country, if you ask me, is the nature, landscapes, ancient and deep-rooted heritage. From the almost 2000 tropical/mountainous/volcanic/sandy islands in the Red Sea and Gulf to the numerous beautiful mountain ranges and deserts, the steppes in the north, the 1000's of wadis, valleys, mountain and desert villages, the 1000's of extinct volcanoes, the green and lush areas of the South and Southern Hijaz, the 3000 + km long coastline (the Red Sea being the northernmost tropical sea with some of the best kept and largest coral reefs on the planet) and first of all the wilderness that surrounds every part of the country. Or take something surreal as the Rub' al-Khali desert. You can wander for 100's if not 1000's of km and then suddenly you witness an area with 5-10 lakes in the middle of nowhere and oasis.

There is much to see, just a shame that all of Arabia is not united, would have made travel and exploration much easier.

Kindly share photos if you take any here on PDF if you want to. A Pakistani brother recently shared some amazing photos from a visit to Umluj.

BTW the types of exploration that I like to make is visiting unknown/not very famous areas in KSA.

Areas such as those:

Random coastal villages, mountain villages, desert villages, wilderness areas etc. That is what exploration travel is all about if you ask me. Easy to visit all the well-known areas in a country. The hidden treasures are the best and KSA has tons of it given all the wilderness.

the word civilization is a bit of a stretch. Culture is a better word.

Pretty much all ancient nations and cultures progressed at roughly the same time as ideas and technology flowed from East to West and vice versa.

The artifacts, tools, remains and settlements have been radiocarbon dated to 7000 BC. As for civilization or culture, scholars use both descriptions. We are talking about the Neolithic period which emerged in the Arab world.

Greeks and Roman ever been there ?

The earliest known Greek scholars have written many accounts about ancient Arabia that historians use to this day. Ancient Greeks and civilizations in the Arab world (Near East) had close ties overall. As for Romans, Northern Hijaz and Northern KSA used to be allied with Rome and at one point there was a Roman province (Arabia Petraea).

Many Roman emperors, senators, consorts of Roman emperors etc. were of Arab origin and from Arabia Petraea.

See this thread that an Italian user created and see my post 13 and others in that thread.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/many...the-middle-east-genetic-history-shows.642497/

 

[Malik Alpha]

Brother, KSA is simply too vast to visit all corners of it for the average human. You would need to travel for years upon years in a row and visit a new place each day. The best part about the country, if you ask me, is the nature, landscapes, ancient and deep-rooted heritage. From the almost 2000 tropical/mountainous/volcanic/sandy islands in the Red Sea and Gulf to the numerous beautiful mountain ranges and deserts, the steppes in the north, the 1000's of wadis, valleys, mountain and desert villages, the 1000's of extinct volcanoes, the green and lush areas of the South and Southern Hijaz, the 3000 + km long coastline (the Red Sea being the northernmost tropical sea with some of the best kept and largest coral reefs on the planet) and first of all the wilderness that surrounds every part of the country. Or take something surreal as the Rub' al-Khali desert. You can wander for 100's if not 1000's of km and then suddenly you witness an area with 5-10 lakes in the middle of nowhere and oasis.

There is much to see, just a shame that all of Arabia is not united, would have made travel and exploration much easier.

Kindly share photos if you take any here on PDF if you want to. A Pakistani brother recently shared some amazing photos from a visit to Umluj.

BTW the types of exploration that I like to make is visiting unknown/not very famous areas in KSA.

Areas such as those:

Random coastal villages, mountain villages, desert villages, wilderness areas etc. That is what exploration travel is all about if you ask me. Easy to visit all the well-known areas in a country. The hidden treasures are the best and KSA has tons of it given all the wilderness.



The artifacts, tools, remains and settlements have been radiocarbon dated to 7000 BC. As for civilization or culture, scholars use both descriptions. We are talking about the Neolithic period which emerged in the Arab world.



The earliest known Greek scholars have written many accounts about ancient Arabia that historians use to this day. Ancient Greeks and civilizations in the Arab world (Near East) had close ties overall. As for Romans, Northern Hijaz and Northern KSA used to be allied with Rome and at one point there was a Roman province (Arabia Petraea).

Many Roman emperors, senators, consorts of Roman emperors etc. were of Arab origin and from Arabia Petraea.

See this thread that an Italian user created and see my post 13 and others in that thread.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/many...the-middle-east-genetic-history-shows.642497/

These pictures are taken by a Pakistani guy who travelled to Tabuk last year. He has a group on Facebook named Saudi Tourism Group(STG)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/STG.krizvi/?ref=share

I will definitely post pictures when I go out on exploration and as you said visiting the less known places is what exploration is.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

View attachment 627480 View attachment 627481 View attachment 627482 View attachment 627483 View attachment 627484 View attachment 627485
These pictures are taken by a Pakistani guy who travelled to Tabuk last year. He has a group on Facebook named Saudi Tourism Group(STG)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/STG.krizvi/?ref=share

I will definitely post pictures when I go out on exploration and as you said visiting the less known places is what exploration is.

I have noticed that numerous Pakistani brothers have taken a huge number of wonderful photos and videos from across KSA on various platforms.

Will take a look at the link, looks very interesting.

With KSA opening up more in recent years and allowing Umrah and Hajj pilgrims to venture out outside of Makkah, Madinah etc., we can expect much more positive news in this regard. I personally welcome it. Such cooperation could also increase the number of Saudi Arabian tourists visiting Pakistan.

 

[Path-Finder]

I would have given you a positive rating if I could, lol. Thanks a lot for the material bro. In particular in those COVID-19 times and with the Ramadan around.

you can read the journal on it by the Scientist who solved the mystery of these ancient petroglyph depicting the solar mass ejection or squaterman. it has many images showing what terror man felt and saw at the end of the last ice age. It even changed the climate of the middle east from sahara to arabia.

I just remembered that the paper is available for just glancing over this calamity.

https://www.everythingselectric.com/product/anthony-peratt-z-pinch-aurora/

just add to basket and follow the page and you can download it for free!

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

you can read the journal on it by the Scientist who solved the mystery of these ancient petroglyph depicting the solar mass ejection or squaterman. it has many images showing what terror man felt and saw at the end of the last ice age. It even changed the climate of the middle east from sahara to arabia.

I just remembered that the paper is available for just glancing over this calamity.

https://www.everythingselectric.com/product/anthony-peratt-z-pinch-aurora/

just add to basket and follow the page and you can download it for free!

I will definitely take a close look at this topic and the link that you have posted. What little I know about the topic (superficial knowledge as I wrote initially) is that it pretty much changes conventional history of mankind as we know it. Seen some criticism of it as well though.

Do you recommend me to watch that Joe Rogan video before I dive into the link that you have just shown me?

 

[Path-Finder]

I will definitely take a close look at this topic and the link that you have posted. What little I know about the topic (superficial knowledge as I wrote initially) is that it pretty much changes conventional history of mankind as we know it. Seen some criticism of it as well though.

yea, this is a huge spanner into the established dogma that has been set up by the so called academia who keep a very tight grip on it. all ideas such as this are met with some hard opposition. But When Allah wishes the Truth just starts to be unveiled and in this instance its quite difficult to oppose it. Well without making things too complicated, there are two theories competing for the catastrophic event that happened at the end of the last ice age. Solar mass ejection vs extraterrestrial asteroid impact.

it is very difficult to find clues on the asteroid impact but the mass of evidence on solar mass ejection was recorded by man everywhere!

Do you recommend me to watch that Joe Rogan video before I dive into the link that you have just shown me?

yea the youtube link i shared starts from where they start to talk about it at 18 minutes till about 40 minutes. or you can watch the whole podcast. there was earlier podcast where the guys behind the asteroid impact theory were presenting their case too.

 

[Philosopher]

Imagine being in the Middle East, with 1000's of years of history in places like Iran, Egypt, Saudis Arabia and yet we're behind these nations that should be in dark ages compared to us. So much has come from the Middle East, all the major religions are from this region, how much impact have they alone had on the world? When you consider where we middle eastern could be compared to where we are, honestly I think we should be ashamed of ourself for this mess we're in.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

yea, this is a huge spanner into the established dogma that has been set up by the so called academia who keep a very tight grip on it. all ideas such as this are met with some hard opposition. But When Allah wishes the Truth just starts to be unveiled and in this instance its quite difficult to oppose it. Well without making things too complicated, there are two theories competing for the catastrophic event that happened at the end of the last ice age. Solar mass ejection vs extraterrestrial asteroid impact.

it is very difficult to find clues on the asteroid impact but the mass of evidence on solar mass ejection was recorded by man everywhere!


yea the youtube link i shared starts from where they start to talk about it at 18 minutes till about 40 minutes. or you can watch the whole podcast. there was earlier podcast where the guys behind the asteroid impact theory were presenting their case too.

Planning to watch it tonight. Will try to give my viewpoints whenever I remember it and frequent PDF again. Forum quality is going down very quickly so my visits are getting limited. Almost zero Arab users left too.

Imagine being in the Middle East, with 1000's of years of history in places like Iran, Egypt, Saudis Arabia and yet we're behind these nations that should be in dark ages compared to us. So much has come from the Middle East, all the major religions are from this region, how much impact have they alone had on the world? When you consider where we middle eastern could be compared to where we are, honestly I think we should be ashamed of ourself for this mess we're in.

Every region on earth has had highs and lows. For the past 500 + years the West has been greatly dominating almost all walks of life. Prior to that it was mostly the work of the Middle East (for millennia) with impact from a few outside regions such as China (mainly) and a few other select ones.

However as you rightly say, there should be no excuses to change the status quo for the better. It is much needed. The leaderships have clearly failed doing that but the people have likewise failed. We are yet to leave our overall petty differences aside for the sake of the betterment of our region. This is rather frustrating as the region has enormous untapped potential not only in terms of mutual regional cooperation but by opening up and reforming politically, socially, economically etc.

I am hopeful for the future though given the demographics (one of the youngest population groups in the world, healthy fertility rates, future population size), untold and untapped potential, resources, strategic location, history, entrepreneurship of the people and future technological advancements. For instance I am certain that the Middle East (cradle of agriculture) has the potential to become a breadbasket again once more effective agricultural method and technologies will be implemented, once seawater desalination becomes even more effective and cheaper and once even more effective methods against desertification emerge. This will have a positive impact on the climate as well and reduce the increasing temperatures.

A good beginning would be KSA/GCC/certain Arab states and Iran reaching some kind of peace agreement and mutually beneficial cooperation policy that was based on pragmatism and mutual benefit (long-term perspective) rather than short-term gains and the current animosity.

Does KSA and Iran even trade with each other? Or what about Egypt and Iran? Think about the untapped potential that is being wasted. KSA and Iran are moreover maritime neighbors. In fact the two historically most important Iranian provinces (Khuzestan and Fars) are located a stone throw away from KSA. Fars province (where Iran's most famous historical landmark is located) for instance is closer to KSA than any other country geographically.

Our regimes won't probably see eye to eye on every topic in the region and the animosity might continue behind the scenes but there is no reason for the average person in both countries to be dragged into this fight for power and there is even less reason (in a perfect world) for the governments to continue this futile behavior. In particular the Iranian government whose actions (long-term) have hurt Iran more than anything else. The current sanctions and animosity with the region is not necessary. There are other ways to work towards dependency than what has been chosen as the path in 1979. That is at least my opinion. KSA has committed mistakes as well but I would argue that it has mostly been a reply to events that unfolded after 1979. Remember that pre-1979, KSA and Iran had rather close ties or at least cordial ties. I don't recall any hostility prior to the Pahlavis in 1925 either. Not even during the Safavid era was there any hostility between the two territories. It is a nonsense "cold war".

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

So many civilizations have ended before us... Even long long time ago which is scary and facinating at the same time. I wonder if people exist 2000 years from now how will they look upon civilizations of this time we live in...

 

[Rukarl]

Planning to watch it tonight. Will try to give my viewpoints whenever I remember it and frequent PDF again. Forum quality is going down very quickly so my visits are getting limited. Almost zero Arab users left too.



Every region on earth has had highs and lows. For the past 500 + years the West has been greatly dominating almost all walks of life. Prior to that it was mostly the work of the Middle East (for millennia) with impact from a few outside regions such as China (mainly) and a few other select ones.

However as you rightly say, there should be no excuses to change the status quo for the better. It is much needed. The leaderships have clearly failed doing that but the people have likewise failed. We are yet to leave our overall petty differences aside for the sake of the betterment of our region. This is rather frustrating as the region has enormous untapped potential not only in terms of mutual regional cooperation but by opening up and reforming politically, socially, economically etc.

I am hopeful for the future though given the demographics (one of the youngest population groups in the world, healthy fertility rates, future population size), untold and untapped potential, resources, strategic location, history, entrepreneurship of the people and future technological advancements. For instance I am certain that the Middle East (cradle of agriculture) has the potential to become a breadbasket again once more effective agricultural method and technologies will be implemented, once seawater desalination becomes even more effective and cheaper and once even more effective methods against desertification emerge. This will have a positive impact on the climate as well and reduce the increasing temperatures.

A good beginning would be KSA/GCC/certain Arab states and Iran reaching some kind of peace agreement and mutually beneficial cooperation policy that was based on pragmatism and mutual benefit (long-term perspective) rather than short-term gains and the current animosity.

Does KSA and Iran even trade with each other? Or what about Egypt and Iran? Think about the untapped potential that is being wasted. KSA and Iran are moreover maritime neighbors. In fact the two historically most important Iranian provinces (Khuzestan and Fars) are located a stone throw away from KSA. Fars province (where Iran's most famous historical landmark is located) for instance is closer to KSA than any other country geographically.

Our regimes won't probably see eye to eye on every topic in the region and the animosity might continue behind the scenes but there is no reason for the average person in both countries to be dragged into this fight for power and there is even less reason (in a perfect world) for the governments to continue this futile behavior. In particular the Iranian government whose actions (long-term) have hurt Iran more than anything else. The current sanctions and animosity with the region is not necessary. There are other ways to work towards dependency than what has been chosen as the path in 1979. That is at least my opinion. KSA has committed mistakes as well but I would argue that it has mostly been a reply to events that unfolded after 1979. Remember that pre-1979, KSA and Iran had rather close ties or at least cordial ties. I don't recall any hostility prior to the Pahlavis in 1925 either. Not even during the Safavid era was there any hostility between the two territories. It is a nonsense "cold war".

IMO the Persian (Iranic) - Arab coexistance has a span of thousands of years and just 2 wars has been fought. It pales infront of the Persian-Turkish wars -atleast 12 major wars (recorded). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turco-Persian_wars



Visit of Shah to Saudi Arabia broadcasted on Iranian tv 1970's

 

[UkroTurk]

Archeologists have found any evidence or footprint of monoteist religions such as Islam in there?

 

[Crusher]

I have never been able to comprehend this fetish of old primitive "civilizations", some people just seem to have eternal love of the past and they are also the most useless people in the world.