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Sarkozy challenges Turkey to face its history

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06 October 2011, Thursday / TODAYSZAMAN.COM,


French President Nicolas Sarkozy, on a brief trip to the Caucasus, urged Turkey on Thursday to recognize the 1915 massacre of Armenians as genocide, threatening to pass a law in France that would make denying this a crime.

Visiting a genocide memorial and museum in Yerevan, Armenia, with Armenian President Serzh Sarksyan, Sarkozy challenged Turkey -- which is seeking membership in the European Union -- to face up to its past. “The Armenian genocide is a historical reality. Collective denial is even worse than individual denial,” Sarkozy told reporters.

“Turkey, which is a great country, would honor itself to revisit its history like other great countries in the world have done,” the French president added. Armenia was the first stop on a two-day trip to the region by Sarkozy, who is keen to raise his profile on the international stage before an April presidential election. He visits Azerbaijan and Georgia on Friday.

France is opposed to Turkey's bid for EU membership and his comments on the sensitive subject are likely to be viewed as unwelcome meddling by Ankara. Turkey denies the deaths of Armenians in 1915 was a genocide. It says both Christian Armenians and Muslim Turks died in large numbers as the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

Sarkozy suggested that French Parliament might consider a law making denial of the deaths of Armenians as genocide a crime, similar to the French law against Holocaust denial.

While in the region, Sarkozy will try to encourage Sarksyan and the president of Azerbaijan, Ilham Aliyev, to resolve a conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh, a mainly Armenian-populated enclave in Azerbaijan. France plays a leading role in the Minsk Group of countries from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), which is trying to resolve the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. Armenian-backed forces wrested Nagorno-Karabakh from Azeri control after the Soviet Union collapsed. When the conflict ended in a ceas-efire in 1994, 30,000 people had been killed and about 1 million had been driven from their homes.

During a three-hour visit to Georgia, Sarkozy will also urge Georgia to improve relations with Russia, reviving memories of his mediating role when the two countries went to war in 2008. Sarkozy's success in brokering a cease-fire in that conflict guarantees a warm welcome in the capital Tbilisi, where he will meet President Mikheil Saakashvili and address a crowd in the central Freedom Square.

Sarkozy will urge Saakashvili to look beyond the countries' differences, including over how they interpret the cease-fire terms, and rebuild trust in relations with Moscow. Each side accuses the other of acting provocatively and sabotaging relations. Moscow has angered Tbilisi and the West by recognizing Georgia's breakaway Abkhazia and South Ossetia regions as independent states.

In Moscow on Thursday, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev met Abkhazia's new president and signed legislation ratifying treaties that enable Russia to operate military bases in the two separatist regions for at least 49 years. It was not clear whether Sarkozy would discuss Russia's bid to join the World Trade Organization which Georgia, as a member, could block. Moscow hopes to complete its entry to the 153-member trading body this year.

Sarkozy mediated the 2008 cease-fire on behalf of the EU as France held the bloc's presidency at the time. That ended the war over Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but Georgia says Russia has violated the terms by not withdrawing troops to the positions they held before the war.

TV images of Sarkozy addressing jubilant crowds will do him no harm as he tries to improve his poor ratings before the two-round election on April 22 and May 6. An opinion poll on Tuesday put Socialist Francois Hollande well in the lead. Sarkozy will also promote business during his visit to the region, but officials gave no details of any planned contracts.

French oil group Total said last month it had made a major gas discovery at Azerbaijan's Absheron block in the Caspian Sea. French companies could also be in the running to help extend the Baku metro, or subway.

Sarkozy has also added fuel to a perennial debate between Turkey and France over Armenians' genocide claims, suggesting that everyone should call tragic events of Armenians at the hands of Ottomans by its own name -- genocide. Sarkozy told an Armenian news agency in an interview published on Wednesday that the friendship between France and Armenia is rooted in history, but it was tempered in the what he called the “genocide tragedy,” when France became a refuge for dozens of thousands of Armenians who had survived the massacre. Sarkozy is also “proud that France was the first country to have officially recognized the genocide by law.”

Most Armenians use the term genocide for a series of tragic events during a war between Russia and the Ottoman Empire that played out in east Anatolia. France has been determined to push Turkey to acknowledge that the Armenian allegations are true. Turkey, in turn, has proposed that a committee of historians, not politicians, should decide what transpired in 1915.

The French Parliament recognized the so-called Armenian genocide in 2001, which resulted in short-lived tension between France and Turkey. In 2006 the French National Assembly adopted a bill proposing a punishment for anyone who denies the Armenian genocide. The bill was dropped this summer before coming to Senate.

Sarkozy also expressed his deep regret over a deadlock in Turkish-Armenian reconciliation process and said the protocols on establishing diplomatic relations and normalization of ties between Turkey and Armenia aroused many hopes. He recalled that Armenian President Sarksyan exhibited wisdom and foresight, saying the next day after meeting in Paris with him that Armenia is ready to ratify the protocols when Turkey is ready for it. He hoped that the process will resume soon.

Speaking about the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, Sarkozy said the time has come for both Armenians and Azerbaijanis to make a risky choice for peace, as there is no bigger danger than the preservation of status-quo which gives birth to illusions, provokes revenge and moves off all the prospects for peace.

“No other country, but France, can imagine what Nagorno-Karabakh means for Armenia,” Sarkozy said, adding that however, 17 years after the war, which had caused so many deaths and sufferings, the time has come to resolve the conflict and find the way to reconciliation. “I'll also deliver this message to President Aliyev in Baku, where I am leaving after my visit to Armenia,” he added.

Sarkozy said Armenians and Azerbaijanis themselves should find the path to solve the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict first of all. “We can help, escort, but we can never establish peace instead of you,” he stressed.


Sarkozy challenges Turkey to face its history
 
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Turkey tells France to confront colonial past

Turkey said France should confront its colonial past before giving lessons to others on how to face history, in an angry response on Friday to a call by President Nicolas Sarkozy for Ankara to recognize the 1915 massacre of Armenians as genocide.


Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu told reporters after his meeting with Turkey's pro-Kurdish Peace and Democracy Party (BDP) on the country's foreign policy that he finds Sarkozy's remarks an example of “political populism.” He said his statements were wrong and were catering to French domestic politics.

“Any state or society that has a colonial past and cannot face its own history does not have the right to give lessons to Turkey. Those who want Turkey to face its history should look in the mirror,” the minister added.

Sarkozy on Thursday urged Turkey to recognize events in 1915 in eastern Anatolia as genocide, threatening to pass a law in France that would make denying this a crime. “The Armenian genocide is a historical reality. Collective denial is even worse than individual denial,” Sarkozy told reporters.

“Turkey, which is a great country, would honor itself to revisit its history like other great countries in the world have done,” the French president added. Turkey's Minister for European Union Affairs, Egemen Bağış, was also highly critical of Sarkozy's remarks and called on the French president to “think over how he would save his country from the economic turmoil it has fallen [into] instead of assuming the role of historians.”

Bağış told reporters in Bosnia and Herzegovina, where he has gone on an official visit, that his remarks show that Sarkozy is concerned about recent polls in his country, which shows less support for him in the upcoming presidential elections. “This can only be called the exploitation of upcoming elections. We can make no other comment,” the minister added.

The issue of the World War I-era killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks is a very sensitive one for Turkey. Armenian groups and some historians say up to 1.5 million Armenians were killed during World War I in a systematic genocide campaign perpetrated during the Ottoman Empire. Turkey categorically rejects the charges, saying the death toll is inflated and that Turks were also killed as Armenians revolted against the Ottoman Empire in collaboration with Russian forces for an independent state in eastern Anatolia.

France has long been urging Turkey to acknowledge that the Armenian allegations are true. Turkey, in turn, has proposed that a committee of historians, not politicians, should decide what transpired in 1915. The French Parliament recognized the so-called Armenian genocide in 2001, which resulted in short-lived tension between France and Turkey. In 2006 the French national assembly adopted a bill proposing a punishment for anyone who denies the Armenian genocide. The bill was dropped this summer before coming to Senate.

Turkey tells France to confront colonial past
 
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Americans wiped out native indians on american continent and australians wiped out aboriginals on australian continent.And theses whites with straight face today teach us the lessons in human rights etc after committing worst genocides ever heard in the history of human race.
 
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They are not interested in the truth! We told them many times to open their archieves and we would do the same to let it researched by historians! Politicians should stfu about this matter and stop using it for dirty political gains! They dont open their archieves because they obviously have some thing to hide!
 
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What do real historians and experts say?


Dr. Bernard Lewis (Princeton University; Best expert on Islamic Empires and Ottoman Empire in the United States) Le Monde, 2002
"There is no evidence of a decision to (Armenian) massacre. On the contrary, there is considerable evidence of attempt to prevent it, which were not very successful. Yes there were tremendous massacres, the numbers are very uncertain but a million may well be likely," and that because of this and other significant differences between the Armenian massacres and the Holocaust, parallels are "rather absurd". In 2006 he re-iterated this point, arguing that "the issue is not whether the massacres happened or not, but rather if these massacres were as a result of a deliberate preconceived decision of the Turkish government," and that "there is no evidence for such a decision."



Dr. Justin McCarthy (University of Louisville; expert in population research and genocide research)
"The Blue Book written by Viscount Bryce and Arnold Toynbee has been used as proof that Armenians and the victims of the Jewish Holocaust suffered the same fate in history. This book has been said to be a product of British intelligence designed to promote and promulgate lies during World War I. Britain had set up the war propaganda bureau at Wellington House for the sole purpose of promoting lies and misinformation on Germany and the Ottoman Empire. The British were in full co-operation with American missionaries in Anatolia and the American Embassy in Istanbul conjured a so called Armenian genocide based on gossip, hear-say and erroneous information.

The real purpose behind this exercise was to create and strengthen an image in the minds of British military officers that the Turk were evil, horrible and untrustworthy" McCarthy adds.

Among other well-known historians who do not name the 1915 civil war a genocide and are against calling these events a genocide are Heath Lowry (Princeton University), Gilles Veinstein (College de France), Stanford Shaw (UCLA), J.C. Hurewitz (Columbia University), Guenter Lewy (University of Massachusetts), Roderic Davison (Central European University), Jeremy Salt (University of Melbourne), Malcolm Yapp (University of London) and Rhoads Murphey (University of Birmingham).

On May 19, 1985, a total of 63 scholars from various American universities sent a letter to the U.S. House of representatives opposing the House Joint Resolution 192 which defined the events of 1915 as genocide.




Dr. Stanford Shaw (Bilkent University)
Dr. Stanford J. Shaw, the historian who challenged the Armenian claims of genocide at the hands of the late Ottomans and provided evidence of Turkey’s aiding and fostering Jews during WWII, died on Saturday at the age of 76. Shaw was a professor of Turkish history at Bilkent University in Ankara and at UCLA as well as the founder of the International Journal of Middle East Studies, published by the Cambridge University Press for the Middle East Studies Association.

Shaw's house in California was bombed in 1977 by Armenian extremists as a result of his research on the alleged genocide.Shaw served as an assistant and associate professor of Turkish language and history at the department of history at Harvard University from 1958 until 1968 and as professor of Turkish history at the University of California Los Angeles from 1968 until 1997. His final post was at Bilkent University as professor of Ottoman and Turkish history from 1999 to 2006.(???????????????????)





Dr. Norman Stone (British historian of modern Europe, especially Central and Eastern Europe, served at the University of Oxford)
Diaspora Armenians claim that ‘historians’ accept the genocide case. There is some preposterous organization called ‘association of genocide scholars’ which does indeed endorse the Diaspora line, but who are they and what qualifications do they have? Knowing about Rwanda or Bosnia or even Auschwitz does not qualify them to discuss Anatolia in 1915, and the Ottoman specialists are by no means convinced of the ‘genocide’. There is in fact an ‘A’ team of distinguished historians who do not accept the Diaspora line at all. In France, Gilles Veinstein, historian of Salonica and a formidable scholar, reviewed the evidence in a famous article of 1993 in L’Histoire. Back then the Armenian Diaspora were also jumping up and down about something or other, and Veinstein summed up the arguments for and against, in an admirably fair-minded way. The fact is that there is no proof of ‘genocide’, in the sense that no document ever appeared, indicating that the Armenians were to be exterminated. There is forged evidence. (To read the continuation: http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=2326)
 
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Turkey's EU Minister Says It Will be Better If Sarkozy Deals with EU's Future Instead of History



Friday, 7 October 2011



SARAJEVO (A.A) - Turkey's European Union (EU) minister and chief negotiator said on Friday that it would be better if the French president dealt with the union's future instead of history.

Egemen Bagis said Nicolas Sarkozy if Sarkozy worked on how his country could come out of the economic turbulence instead of assuming the role of historians, it would be more meaningful for France and Europe.

"If Sarkozy develops projects on the future of the EU, it will be more meaningful for not only EU-member France but also world peace and order," Bagis told reporters in Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Bagis's remarks came after Sarkozy had said France could pass a law, similar to that in Switzerland, which would support Armenian allegations regarding the incidents of 1915.

"Sarkozy must have been frightened with the results of recent political surveys in France so that he is assuming such approaches," Bagis said.
Bagis also said the duty of politicians was not to deal with history and some incidents that occurred in the past, but to set the future.
(BRC-MS)



Friday, 7 October 2011

Anadolu Agency


Turkey's EU Minister Says It Will be Better If Sarkozy Deals with EU's Future Instead of History, 7 October 2011 Friday 12:17
 
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what is this baboon mumbling about now...

buhu... go be butthurt somewhere else, you're messing with wrong country. dont forget that we kicked ur butt in the independence war. probably mad about that, i have never seen this man talk good about Turkey. he is like the European version of lieberman.
 
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This little fransuva midget is still butthurted because of Kanuni Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent did to his ancestors!

If he dares to talk like this in front of Erdogan i think he will definitely get his AXX beat up.
 
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The French nation is probably the most coward one on this planet. They are notorious for lack of courage. It took Germany a week to invade France, poor Iraqis put a better fight against US forces...

Is this midget aware of what French has done on North Africa before? He is a "man" who doesn't mind his wife's affairs. That would give an idea of who this whatever you call him is...
 
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Sarkozy is a short and very insecure man who is very unpopular in france and unlikely to get elected again. His lead on going into libya and now telling Turkey smacks of racism arrogance and devoid of any logic whatsoever. its people like him being elected that really puts me of democracy. how can the french people elect the village idiot as their president.
 
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Sarkozy is a short and very insecure man who is very unpopular in france and unlikely to get elected again. His lead on going into libya and now telling Turkey smacks of racism arrogance and devoid of any logic whatsoever. its people like him being elected that really puts me of democracy. how can the french people elect the village idiot as their president.

long term short, he is a midget! :)
 
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