Sanam Saeed defends Asma Aziz, says leaked dance video doesn’t justify torture.

[Proudpakistaniguy]

We live in a male dominated society where we always have ready made excuses and justification for violent behaviour of man..just look at how our society treat pre-martial or extra martial affairs of man and woman differently ..many parent don't even take seriously when their sons have affairs but its suddenly become matter of life an death when their daughters involve in any such activities ..hate this hypocrisy and double standards of our man...I have seen people enjoy mujra and all vulgar stuffs yet at the same time they curse on those woman who involve in this....we love applying morality and judgement on others selectively yet no introspection for our own lusty desires

 

[Vortex]

Well? Think about it...you think I didn't notice these traits within myself? I've gone thru the stages of being both, a liberal and molvi centric conservative myself...got sick n tired of the constantly prevailing hypocrisy within me...found refuge, healing and peace only within The Quran. Still have a long way to go, I know I've still got many flaws...but at least that Book that we conveniently choose to kiss and put away without studying it gave me the nerve to realize my flaws and the fortitude to do something about them.

We are many in the same situation bro,
I grown up in a little bit conservative family in France but still I’m not conservative myself. That’s why I asked the question about what is being liberal.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Unfortunately , this has nothing to do with Liberal ideal
Truely sad to see some folks say this action was due to Liberalism

• Liberal does not means you ask your wife to do acts against her wishes
• Liberal does not means that your wife has to perform dance routine for your guests
• Liberals does not means you shave a lady's head if she refuses
• Liberals does not means you beat your wife if she refuses

If any of the Jahils , went to Europe or North America and claimed they are liberals and did these acts they can find themselves 15-18 years behind bar

This is plain and simple Jahalat / Ignorance

This is plain and simple Desi Village Jahalat

And some Pakistani posters , stating this is their definition of Liberalism, actually solidifies any foreigner's opinion that Pakistanis do not have a grasp of what Liberalism as a political movement means


Liberal Foundations for Political Movement has following fundamentals

• Universal Justice system
• Pro Immigration Policies , and Pro Multi Cultural aspect of governance
• Opposition to overly Religious bigotry
• Acknowledge of fundamental rights of Humans , Male and Female
• Liberalism means , a open freedom in country to practice different faiths
• Law protects all citizens equally
• Policy that benefit Mass is introduced more easily
• Right to a fair wage for working
• Taxation
• Freedom for people to wear what they want
• Freedom for people to do what they want (consensual)
• Religion does not defines your place in society (But it is your Education , hard work)

For many people in western world who might read up on story would call it a case of Pakistan's internal regional dynamic.



a) In Pakistan the struggle is generally around , Dress Code appropriation
b) Their is constant conflict between conservatives or Youth about their early year lives
(who they can meet, or develop friendship with in order to move forward to having a
family)
c) Foreign Celebratory days


However most of other aspects of society are very similar

 

[airmarshal]

The issue of beysharmi or haraam zadgee is not the topic. But shaving her head is! Swinging couples is not the issue. Doing drugs and performing lewd dances is not an issue either.

Its becoming a strange country and certainly this erosion of values is quite worrying.

 

[GumNaam]

The issue of beysharmi or haraam zadgee is not the topic. But shaving her head is! Swinging couples is not the issue. Doing drugs and performing lewd dances is not an issue either.

Its becoming a strange country and certainly this erosion of values is quite worrying.

these issues require wisdom, hikmat, to solve once and for all. jald baazi aur jazbaati pan say kaam aur bhi kharab ho jaye ga. demand creates supply. Don't remove the supply. Instead, remove the demand. demand for perversions and lewdity originates PRIMARILY from MEN! Put HATRED and DISGUST in the hearts of men for all forms of perversions and lewdity while making nikah easily accessible and prevalent...the supply will wither away by itself!

 

[PurpleButcher]

The moral/ethical/religious issues aside, this video proves that the image portrayed by the shaved lady and media was not 100% true.

It was not as if a very conservative girl was lured into marriage by a pimp and then "forcefully" subjected to unethical acts. She had a history of such shameful acts. Now since, the lady tried to hide this truth about her consensual actions, it is now "highly possible" that the details shared by her regarding the incident "might not" be true as well. She might have lied about the incident for some other ulterior motive, after all one thing is proven that she does lie. Maybe she wanted to get rid of her husband, maybe was lured by another male or God knows there can be a plethora of possibilities.

What this video should do is force the investigating officers to probe into the other possibility of women lying and framing the husband as well? This is not a crystal clear case as was being portrayed by media. She might be telling the truth, she might be lying but the probability of her lying has increased after the surfacing of this video.

PS:- In our conservative society, how can someone make his wife do a lap dance for his friends, how much morally and religiously bankrupt are these people?

 

[I.R.A]

In our conservative society

Your conservative society can put to shame a lot of many free open sexually active societies. Like this woman, your society hides a lot of stuff which unfortunately hasn't been (cannot be) filmed on a video tape. Whenever, some of it comes to the public notice ......... we simply sweep it under the carpet labeling it "liberal" baykirdar people.

 

[war&peace]

Point is not about the torture, point is that she and whole media tried to portray her as a decent girl but actually she is not.

I will not put the "Liberal" label on them as I couldn't imagine someone who is liberal to any extent will do this.
I will shift it to something else. I have read somewhere that eating pork brings shamelessness and specially "Wife Sharing" because boar (male pig) is the only animal which shares his partner with other pigs. and recently we have news of swine meat being supplied in lahor.

Bhai, these shameless people use this self-assumed label "liberal" so it is very important to shame them and show the people their true faces.

 

[bafxet]

A liberal defending a liberal, with no consideration of the wohle drama.

 

[war&peace]

Hey guys ? What does mean “being liberal” for you ?

Thanks

In true sense of the word, a person who has balanced approach and according to this definition Islam is liberal and thus a true practicing Muslim is liberal.
But in today world, all the people who are the slaves of their material and lusty desires and they violate the limits and sanctity of the religion call themselves as liberal and the media has sold this term as opposite to the religious or conservative people. So anyone who wear skimpy and western dresses in eastern societies calls him/her-self a liberal, do drunk is liberal, anyone who abuse Islam and religion is a "liberal" and thus all these actors, actresses, model, and a lot of media personalities ...most of whom are high class hookers...they are liberal in the Pakistani context.

And this is the how liberals defend each other, by ignoring the wider issue of immorality which fuels various forms of depravity in turn.

Abuse is wrong - no ifs and buts. And same is true for immorality, period.

That's what our people do not understand. Physical abuse is not allowed beyond certain limit. Furthermore, the husband is of the same character rather worse and he was using or abusing her for money. And when she didn't comply, he tortured her. And our people start abusing her for dancing but they forget her husband is equal partner in the crime rather he forced her..

 

[hussain0216]

Hey guys ? What does mean “being liberal” for you ?

Thanks

Anti faith
Anti culture
Scum

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

My head is spinning after watching Star Plus media imported from India.

Point is not about the torture, point is that she and whole media tried to portray her as a decent girl but actually she is not.

I will not put the "Liberal" label on them as I couldn't imagine someone who is liberal to any extent will do this.
I will shift it to something else. I have read somewhere that eating pork brings shamelessness and specially "Wife Sharing" because boar (male pig) is the only animal which shares his partner with other pigs. and recently we have news of swine meat being supplied in lahor.

Maybe she found God and wanted to be free of such lifestyle.

 

[war&peace]

perhaps its defence forum

Ironically, the defence related matters get the least quantity of discussion especially true for quality discussion on this forum.

 

[war&peace]

The issue of beysharmi or haraam zadgee is not the topic. But shaving her head is! Swinging couples is not the issue. Doing drugs and performing lewd dances is not an issue either.

Its becoming a strange country and certainly this erosion of values is quite worrying.

When your president awards pride of performance to a tawaif then what do you expect?

 

[313ghazi]

Unfortunately , this has nothing to do with Liberal ideal
Truely sad to see some folks say this action was due to Liberalism

• Liberal does not means you ask your wife to do acts against her wishes
• Liberal does not means that your wife has to perform dance routine for your guests
• Liberals does not means you shave a lady's head if she refuses
• Liberals does not means you beat your wife if she refuses

If any of the Jahils , went to Europe or North America and claimed they are liberals and did these acts they can find themselves 15-18 years behind bar

This is plain and simple Jahalat / Ignorance

This is plain and simple Desi Village Jahalat

And some Pakistani posters , stating this is their definition of Liberalism, actually solidifies any foreigner's opinion that Pakistanis do not have a grasp of what Liberalism as a political movement means

Liberal Foundations for Political Movement has following fundamentals

• Universal Justice system
• Pro Immigration Policies , and Pro Multi Cultural aspect of governance
• Opposition to overly Religious bigotry
• Acknowledge of fundamental rights of Humans , Male and Female
• Liberalism means , a open freedom in country to practice different faiths
• Law protects all citizens equally
• Policy that benefit Mass is introduced more easily
• Right to a fair wage for working
• Taxation
• Freedom for people to wear what they want
• Freedom for people to do what they want (consensual)
• Religion does not defines your place in society (But it is your Education , hard work)

For many people in western world who might read up on story would call it a case of Pakistan's internal regional dynamic.

a) In Pakistan the struggle is generally around , Dress Code appropriation
b) Their is constant conflict between conservatives or Youth about their early year lives
(who they can meet, or develop friendship with in order to move forward to having a
family)
c) Foreign Celebratory days

However most of other aspects of society are very similar

You're right and slightly wrong at the same time.

I agree that a politically liberal identity doesn't justify the couples previous behaviour, or the abusive attack on the wife. However in Pakistan many who tend to self identify as liberal, don't adapt the political identity and the values with it, rather they adopt the looser moral standards of western society and consider themselves more forward thinking because they've adapted the dress code or social standards of a foreign culture. They themselves call this liberalism.

Of course like you pointed out this incorrect self definition of liberalism is exposed the moment they revert back to their jungli selves when challenged by a woman, or someone they consider "beneath them".

So to summarise - i agree with you, but we have to remember that many in Pakistani incorrectly label themselves as liberal, and then the rest of society has taken that incorrect definition and run with it. It's very much to the detriment of true liberalism - something Pakistan could benefit from partly adopting.

Hey guys ? What does mean “being liberal” for you ?

Thanks

I think it's grossly mis-used as a term in Pakistan. Liberalism is a political identity based on the spectrum of ideals of western Europe and their anglo-saxon cousins on other continents. You can't acurately define people as liberals who don't adhere to that spectrum of political ideologies.

Most Pakistani Muslims will be liberal or conservative on very different issues. For example, Zakat is a wealth tax, an extremely liberal agenda in the west. Hudud punishment is corporal punishment, something very much to the right wing of the political spectrum in the west. Most Muslims in Pakistan will strongly advocate both. Are those Muslims neo-liberals or neo-conservatives?

We need sociologists, philosophers and political thinkers in our socities to re-draw the political maps based on our unique identities and values - not by pigeon holing us into foreign systems.