SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[LeGenD]

I see. So WS-10H is the variant for carrier-based J15. H is Hai which is sea in Chinese language. This shows that WS-10 series are already mature, lift hours should not be an issue any more.

WS-10H is possibly the most advanced variant because of its stressful operation requirements.

 

[credence]

Nope ... it is a well known image of one of the first two prototypes and almost too blurry to identify anything. but it surely has no 2D nozzle:

View attachment 903092

you are wrong. China is testing both the regular version and 2D vector thrust version. the 2D engine was displayed in Zhuhai Airshow 2022

 

[Deino]

you are wrong. China is testing both the regular version and 2D vector thrust version. the 2D engine was displayed in Zhuhai Airshow 2022

Come on ... we've seen not many images of the J-35 and all so far showed the regular nozzle including this one, which is a still from a video and the fact that China displayed a model of the 2D nozzle at Zhuhai only tells us that they are working on such a system, not that the J-35 is already using it.

Otherwise, the proof is in the pudding and since it is a quite bold claim from you, it's you who need to prove it, not in return.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[That Guy]

@Deino

Does anyone know if this will have a cannon? I know the J-20 doesn't. Don't think it'll see much success in the export market without a proper cannon.

 

[Deino]

@Deino

Does anyone know if this will have a cannon? I know the J-20 doesn't. Don't think it'll see much success in the export market without a proper cannon.

Actually I don‘t know and so I have seen nothing that hints, it should have one.

In fact I#m not that much convinced, a modern fighter needs a gun and even lesser to be succesful in the export market.

 

[Trango Towers]

Actually I don‘t know and so I have seen nothing that hints, it should have one.

In fact I#m not that much convinced, a modern fighter needs a gun and even lesser to be succesful in the export market.

They tried removing the canons from the f4 jets at cost. A cannon is the last line of defence and good for strafing

 

[Deino]

They tried removing the canons from the f4 jets at cost. A cannon is the last line of defence and good for strafing

But aerial combat has changes dramatically ... and while the F-4 still need to into close range, where a gun was indeed "the last line of defence", at the age of stealth it is no longer that necessary.

 

[That Guy]

But aerial combat has changes dramatically ... and while the F-4 still need to into close range, where a gun was indeed "the last line of defence", at the age of stealth it is no longer that necessary.

I don't know about that. In a near peer conflict, Stealth won't be as important, as nations like China would 100% have ways to defeat stealth. In which case, dog fights may end up becoming the norm once again, as stealth won't play as big of a role.

 

[Horse_Rider]

I don't know about that. In a near peer conflict, Stealth won't be as important, as nations like China would 100% have ways to defeat stealth. In which case, dog fights may end up becoming the norm once again, as stealth won't play as big of a role.

The dog fighting days are limited to gone. The Western jets even have proposals to remove cannons. There are just too many sensors. Heavier FLIR/IR/LASER can see stealth jets. That's how the EFT was able to lock onto an F-22 a couple of times in near BVR scenarios using IR sensors. Whether it could take one down in real life is a totally different story.

In a future conflict, you'd have LRBVR missiles (150KM+), then current generation of BVR missiles 100KM+ and then HOBS based IR guided such as AIM-9X and PL-10, Spider, etc, so there are 3 tiers of offensive weapons that will be fired at you. Chances of defeating everything and still get to your opponent for a dog fight and with enough fuel to fight and return are very, very slim to non-existant.

Even if you beat the LRBVR tier and got to a second tier (From AMRAAM-D to AMRAAM C-5 range), the chances are that you'd be very low on fuel due to defending and reducing energy and regaining it with constant afterburners. The C-5 range (second tier) would drain a big portion of your left over fuel and if you survive, you'd have to disengage to go get refueled. But it's very difficult to imagine beating two layers of advance BVR weapons.

 

[Trango Towers]

But aerial combat has changes dramatically ... and while the F-4 still need to into close range, where a gun was indeed "the last line of defence", at the age of stealth it is no longer that necessary.

Agreed bro. Longer range shots with much more accurate missiles. I along with many think there is still a place for a cannon

 

[siegecrossbow]

Agreed bro. Longer range shots with much more accurate missiles. I along with many think there is still a place for a cannon

Might as well as wait for laser pod. Could be used to defend against incoming missiles and, in the unlikely event of merge, be used against enemy fighters.

 

[Horse_Rider]

Might as well as wait for laser pod. Could be used to defend against incoming missiles and, in the unlikely event of merge, be used against enemy fighters.

Laser pods are being tested on US jets as well as EFT's. I'd expect the Chinese to roll these out soon for their top tier jets at the least. Any updates from the Chinese military on these?

 

[Beast]

They tried removing the canons from the f4 jets at cost. A cannon is the last line of defence and good for strafing

And how long has Vietnam war ended...Almost 50 years ago. Technology has improved dramatically. Install gun is just a waste of precious space in modern age stealth and increase the RCS.

 

[Trango Towers]

And how long has Vietnam war ended...Almost 50 years ago. Technology has improved dramatically. Install gun is just a waste of precious space in modern age stealth and increase the RCS.

Well when was the wheel invented? Why use it.

Some things work so why change them