S Africa's women and gay-friendly Open Mosque under fire after peaceful launch

[Sriram]

this is a one BIG lie

examples pls?

 

[Saradiel]

examples pls?

First indians asking how non abrahamic religions discriminate women is hilarious.

does not hinduism say a wife must always obey a husband no matter what he does? The present discriminatory attitude towards women in india is due to religion. Is not birth of a girl a reason to be mad that many started killing baby girls which still continue in the form of foeticide. Doesnt Hinduism place a man in a higher position than a woman. Doesnt Hindu woman touch the feet of their husbands and worship them? what equality is in it?

Even religions like Buddhism is discriminatory towards women though not like Hinduism (dont take me wrongly, i am not saying this because i am a buddhist but in an academic point of view). Even countries like Japan, China where abrahamic religions impact is less have a very poor status for women.

In ancient greece women were equal to slave status. That was the same in other parts of europe. If anyone says non abrahamic religions gave equal status to women that is laughable.

 

[araz]

Does the same apply to Shia's, Ahmeddiya's and other sects ? A strict adherence to the book ? Fair enough that all Abrahamic organized faiths have an archaic belief to homosexuality but it may not be a choice (Im born a Catholic myself).. How about those living in a closet in the Islamic world ? So is it ok as long as nobody else knows about it ? Does'nt that make it a farce ? And how practical is it to implement a book that was written in tribal Arabia over a millenia ago to it's word in the 21st century ? Does'nt that make it fundamentalist ? And what about Sufi's, Javanese, Sumatran and Malay's ? People that are very pious Muslims but practice their faith along side more aesthetic customs that preceded Islam in South East Asia ? Are they considered heretics ?

I'm asking these questions in good faith.. Since you seem to be the only poster that have taken time to explain without getting offensive.. Is it a crime to question or pose queries regarding Islam according to some ? Would'nt it be more prudent to clear misconceptions rather than embedding the thoughts of intolerance on non Muslims ?

Thanks

Gibbs.
What I have quoted to you is the belief of the main branch of islam( called Ahl e sunnah wal Jama'ah). However there cannot be any ambiguity in any sect with regards to homosexuality and if the Quran describes it as an abomination then this is the belief of all muslims. There may be individuals who may have individual opinions but these do not represent islam. Therefore a mosque that allows that which is abhorrent to Allah SWT 8s not a mosque and those people responsible cannot be called muslims.
I never comment about other religion's beliefs but in this case there is concordance in all Abrahamic religions. If you choose to ignore the word of the bible or Torah this is between you and Allah SWT and frankly I would not envy anyone who has to answer Allah SWT on the day of judgement about his ignorance and defiance of Allah SWT 's laws.
As to implementation and practicality this is an individual matter. You will do what your conscience dictates and I will do something in accordance to mine. The real question is not that a certain thing is done but the fact that it is done and its perpetrators want religious acceptance which is wrong. By all means do whatever you like but dont try to find legitimacy where there is none.
implementation is a matter of personal choice. Jews implement some of the laws of Torah to this date and Torah is much older than the Quran.
Regards

 

[Dubious]

I don't feel offended or anything.

Of course not yet you had to ask are you serious on my post but when asked to reciprocate that for your fellow countrymen...

The line which I wrote in hindi was said by sadhvi ritambhara who was also one of the main culprit behind the fall of babri masjid.
I am a liberal and hence i think all of you religious nutjobs including those hindus or others should mind your own business.
You have no right to call anyone anything. If a hindu while praying to allah wants to be called a hindu then I'll have no problem.

When did I ask for rights? In such a case you have no rights to call anyone anything if some people call Modi a terrorist that is just as fine...

If tomorrow someone calls your lawyers butchers or your cleaner a doctor that should be fine too...

Apparently you just murdered the very meaning that gives a definition to a person/ thing/ action!

Religion is a personal matter.

Yet every now and then OP feels the urge to make a circus out of it? Is that how you portray your personal matters in India?

One thing that I find interesting is that one cannot follow the entire set of rules.for eg it's forbidden in islam to take interests but many muslims have bank accounts from which they get interests. Are they not muslims???

This alone shows me how much about Islam you know...By taking or leaving interest one doesnt become a Muslim....

To be a Muslim you have a NUMBER of rules to follow and 1-2 thrown left or right (esp something which is not a big sin like Shirkh ) will not throw you out of Islam..

Another eg. worshipping more then one god is forbidden in Bhagavada gita(i've read that particular verse my self) .
Am I not a hindu??

That's your problem now isnt it? You people are happy to call a butcher a doctor, what can I do about that?

So why can't we make another exception for fags and gals?
Please don't get offended and think logically.

I am not offended at all...Just coz you made excuses for yourself, you want to help others be excused is rather funny...

Just coz you WANT TO worship more than 1 god (like you said it is "FORBIDDEN" yet you still chose to) meaning you are not obeying the rules and still want to call yourself a Hindu its like a butcher slaughtering a person and you calling it an operation...and then you want to widen the scope by saying even the carpenter is a doctor so is the 6th grader who lives across the street

All non abrahamic religions give equal rights to woman.. Roman/greek religions had priestessess so does most native african cultures

By worshipping someone doesnt mean you give them rights....it just means you worship them...

People used to worship calves and still eat em...what rights did the calves receive?

 

[EternalJives]

Frankly speaking I am a novice with Islamic theology but this forum is a great place to understand it. Having said that and after reading the OP and the comments, I came to conclusion that:

1) Women are allowed inside the mosques throughout the world to worship
2) Islam regards homosexuality unnatural and hence any person who practices it isn't a muslim
3) Islam doesn't allow a women to be an 'imam'

@Akheilos and @araz - Given the resistance to this mosque, am i right in concluding that the resistance is against homosexuals and a women imam and that they are not against allowing women inside the mosque? Also, from 'insaniyat' perspective: Homosexuals usually go through a lot of stigma in the society anyway. Isn't snatching their right to worship a bad thing?

Probably a topic for much bigger debate and is applicable for each and every religion. I do understand that every religion is based on a fundamental set of guidelines to help the adherents but do you think the guidelines should change with changing times but keeping the core message of the religion intact?

 

[Jaanbaz]

Let them run the mosque, there is no worldly punishment for homosexuals in Quran. Leave it to Allah to decide. Maybe some of them might come back on the right track instead of going for taboo stuff.

 

[Dubious]

Isn't snatching their right to worship a bad thing?

Post 2

Lastly, until and unless its written on their foreheads, how can one possibly know one is gay? or how does that ever effect his admission into a masjid? The very fact that people feel the need to display and desperately require others to acknowledge their choice of being gay is stupid ...Does it matter if people accept or reject it? Its your life go be gay if you want to why force other's to accept u by proclaiming it as though you found the cure to cancer or something.....

the guidelines should change with changing times but keeping the core message of the religion intact?

again post 2

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (Quran 5:3)

Something that is perfect doesnt require revolutions...

or changes....

And religion is divine not something man made that a man should adjust or change it for himself...that is selfish and also proud...

A person following any religion 1st humbles himself than he puts himself on the path of god...that is a follower (every religion teaches that) ...So how can one who is humble and has surrendered to GOD go back on his basic principals let alone change them to SUIT HIMSELF?

Religion if from divine power cant be adjusted by normal man....that differentiates divinity with normal human beings...were that the case (that you wish to change things to suit your whims) , there is no reason to call it "divine" or a religion....just call it practice, culture or tradition...

Hope that answers your questions

 

[livingdead]

Let them run the mosque, there is no worldly punishment for homosexuals in Quran. Leave it to Allah to decide. Maybe some of them might come back on the right track instead of going for taboo stuff.

lot of gays/lesbians muslim are believers but are too confused as mainstream islam does not cater to their needs.. on one hand they are biologically inclied to be gay/lesbian and other hand they dont want to lose the belief.
if they had any other way, they would have converted to other religion.. but if you see some of the interviews available, their heart is torn between deciding what to do.

In any case, the reaction from muslims has been relatively peaceful.. so its all good.