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a determined enemy used the road beside the base for taking off those migs .
if its a possibility , runway denial is nothing but a myth


specially when mig-29 can take off like this
Myth...??? Yeah...:rolleyes:

To start, you need aircrafts DESIGNED for partially finished runways. The preferred phrase is 'improvised runway'. But even if the aircraft can use improvised runway, there is still a need to defend, maintain, and repair the normal runway system as much as possible.

Now, here is something for you to consider...

Aircraft load can, not always, be affected by improvised runway. The more 'improvised' the runway, you have two choices: Either you take longer for TO/L or you reduce your combat load to use the same length as the normal runway. The improvised runway do not have the same load rating, surface constant, traction value, and several other factors. You think am making this up?

Here is just ONE examples of many docs regarding runways...


Why did I used a US Army doc? Because the Army have a lot of experience in living/working with improvised runways. Use keyword 'soil' for example. You will see issues such as load rating, jet blasts because often the Army has to make runways for AF cargo jets. There is a section in there for C-130 and C-17 operations.

The following are standard design requirements for most airfield construction or restoration missions:​
Design of drainage system structure.​
Geometric design of RWY, TWYs, and hardstands (including overruns, blast areas, and turnarounds).​
Selection of soils found in cuts and use of soil to improve subgrade.​
Compaction or stabilization requirements of the subgrade.​
Determination of type and thickness of the base and surface courses.​
Selection of grade to minimize earthwork while still meeting specifications.​
Design of access and service roads.​
Design of ammunition and petroleum, oils, and lubricants (POL) storage areas, NAVAIDs; hardstands, maintenance and warm up aprons, corrosion control facilities, control towers, airfield lighting, and other facilities​

See the highlighted: construction or restoration.

Restoration from what? Maybe the improvised runway was also damaged in the attack. Or maybe harsh weather washed off some surface soil. Or maybe freezing temperature made the improvised runway too slick to be used.

Table 4-1. Army airfield and heliport classes Class Definition (controlling aircraft weights reflect operational weight)​
I Heliports/pads with aircraft 25,000 lbs. (11,340 kgs) or less. Controlling aircraft (UH-60)-16,300 lbs. (7,395 kgs).​
II Heliports/pads with aircraft over 25,000 lbs. (11,340 kgs). Controlling aircraft (CH-47)-50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs).​
III Airfield with class A runways. Controlling aircraft (combination of C-23 aircraft-24,600 lbs. (11,200 kgs) and a CH-47 aircraft at 50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs). Class A runways are primarily used for small aircraft (C-12 and C-23).​
IV Airfields w/class B runways. The controlling aircraft is a C-130 aircraft at 155,000 lbs. (70,310 kgs) operational weight or a C-17 aircraft at 580,000 lbs. (263,100 kgs) operational weight. Class B runways are primarily used for high performance and large heavy aircraft (C-130, C-17, and C-141).​
V Heliports/pads supporting Army assault training missions. Controlling aircraft (CH-47)-50,000 lbs. (22,680 kgs).​
VI Assault landing zones for operations supporting Army training missions that have semi-prepared or paved landing surfaces. Controlling aircraft (C-130-155,000 lbs. [70,310 kgs] or C-17-580,000 lbs. [263,100 kgs]). Legend: lbs= pounds, kgs= kilograms​
Do you see those tonnage ratings for different aircrafts? Even smaller and lighters fighters, like my F-16, are affected.

5-36. Weather, terrain, RWY conditions, amount of available equipment and remaining fuel, and crash location are some factors that govern placing equipment at an aircraft's crash operation. Prefire plans can only cover general placement procedures and should allow for flexibility, based on the situation. Other factors to consider include—
Aircraft's landing speed.​
Wind direction and speed.​
Aircraft's stopping distance.​

Do you see the highlighted above?

The literature on runways and airfields are enormous, even if dealing with austere airfields and improvised runways. Everything in that Army doc are applicable to the AF in either making improvised runways to supplement the main system, or in deploying to austere airfields with improvised runways. I may have no choice but to sortie with reduced loads because the improvised runway cannot handle the full load.

People like you who have no experience looks at a picture and thinks they know everything about the subject. Runway denial is a myth? I hope the entire Iranian military leadership is filled with people like you.
 
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Yes, keep laughing. This is what keyboard smashers normally do. Whereas those living in or around war zones are praying for the war to end instead of getting into some d* measure contest.

Talk talk talk... and more talk to add fuel to fire ... typical treat of anglo-saxon bullies. Chinese FM is spot on!

Let's get one thing straight for this and all other forums: There are NO experts here just as there were/are never about the Covid Pandemic. The Pandemic and the subsequent war/evacuation in Afghanistan has convinced me, without a doubt, that there as many opinions as there are $ssholes...
 
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Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.

Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.

But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.

Apologize about the rudeness.

But it's getting to be a bit much the double standards and hypocrisy coming from the "West"

I'm old enough and educated enough to have seen all the BS first hand throughout the years.

The narrative that plays out for public consumption is a far different story than what really drives the events.

At first when it came to the Middle East, I recognize that perhaps as a Muslim I may be seeing a biased picture.

But with Russia/Ukraine, I really have no dog in this fight.

Yet, the nonsense I see peddled is even more ridiculously false regarding the reasons for this war.

As for sovereign nations deciding their own security considerations.

Are you kidding me?

The US has meddled with other countries concerns like no other.

Does the cries of "regime change" for other countries ring a bell?

And that's just in public.

Forget all the covert ops.

Come on now.
 
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lol I laugh at people ignorance when they think Russia is in any real contention with NATO in a conventional war.

US defence budget is 2/3 of the entire Russian GDP in 2021. Just let that sink in for a moment.

And then you look at Ukraine and they manage to make a big mess out of it. Against NATO?

I don't remember when is the last time any Army lost 3 generals in combat. Probably have to go all the way to Korean War....
Do you really believe war with Russia and NATO will be conventional? Russia doesn't stand a chance in conventional warfare, so would they intentionally let themselves be destroyed?
 
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The cruelty towards Ukraine

The State Department knew perfectly well that Ukraine was divided into two camps, and that is precisely why the State Deparment provoked a civil war. "Ukraine" means "border", "borderlands", and one part is Polish-Ukrainian and another part is Russian-Ukrainian.

They filled their heads with promises, lies and fantasies, to use them as pawns and cannon fodder. As if impoverished Ukraine could magically become Denmark or Norway as long as they killed Russians and were very obedient to the Master in Washington.

A neutral Ukraine was beneficial for all: beneficial for Ukrainians, for Russians and for Western Europeans. The only losers were the fanatics in London and Washington.

Washington and London have been spitting on the USSR's grave for 30 years. This war started in 2008 and now the Russian army is ending it.

The blind Western fanaticism can be seen in this very thread: Crimea is Russia before California, Texas and Nevada was USA and yet some say it is sacred an internal administrative decision of the USSR from 1954. This is the degree of fanaticism: the USSR can be divided; but the Ukraine created by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev is sacred and cannot be divided. Ukraine can be separated from the USSR but no territory can be separated from Ukraine.

And, of course, Washington should not be upset if Iran's military advisers train Mexico's army, nor should it be upset if China invites Canada to join a military alliance or if Scotland rents a naval base to the Russian fleet.
This was the case. Mr Putin is now creating a ukrainian nation.
 
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Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.

Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.

But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.

At least Russia is doing it for the sake of its national security. What was the reason for the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK in Iraq? The WMDS? Where'd they go?
 
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Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.

Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.

But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.
Which world power doesn’t? And given that the consequences are understood isn’t it the responsibility of a country’s leadership to avoid getting entangled in situations that will bring nothing but death and destruction to its people?

What did Saddam achieve out of his stubbornness? what did Qaddafi achieve for his tactlessness? And now the same, what did Zelensky achieve for his country and his people with his ill conceived ambitions?
 
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Do you really believe war with Russia and NATO will be conventional? Russia doesn't stand a chance in conventional warfare, so would they intentionally let themselves be destroyed?
It won't be conventional. Anybody who thinks so is deluding themselves. The Russians have constantly talked about destroying the world with nukes if it comes to it and I do not think they are bluffing.
 
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He doesn't believe in Russian death toll of 10,000 and says Russia admitted to 500.

So there is clearly not 10k troops killed. but they have lost so many vehicles surely there were people in those vehicles. It must be over a thousand troops killed. maybe double that. maybe triple that. We'll never know because they incinerate them in mobile crematoriums unfortunately.
 
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It won't be conventional. Anybody who thinks so is deluding themselves. The Russians have constantly talked about destroying the world with nukes if it comes to it and I do not think they are bluffing.
That dude himself said US defence budget is 2/3 of the entire Russian GDP, add NATO and it's stooges on top of that and you have David vs Goliath situation. The war would be anything but conventional.
 
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He doesn't believe in Russian death toll of 10,000 and says Russia admitted to 500.

So there is clearly not 10k troops killed. but they have lost so many vehicles surely there were people in those vehicles. It must be over a thousand troops killed. maybe double that. maybe triple that. We'll never know because they incinerate them in mobile crematoriums unfortunately.


I don't think the Ukrainian number is far off the mark
 
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Your opening statement is rude but thanks for this information.

Ukraine is a sovereign country and it can decide its security considerations like any other state.

But Russia does not wants it to - the classic case of the POWERFUL dictating / oppressing the WEAK.
Wrong. Just as the US would not allow Cuba to have nuclear missiles, Russia is the same.

No, it is not up to the Ukraine. A Ukraine in Nato, with nuclear weapons is not acceptable. The Russians regard this as weapons parked on their front porch. This is a crisis in slow motion, everybody has known that this will happen. A neutral Ukraine is in everybody's benefit and the only solution.
 
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