Russia rejects MiG-29K for Kuznetsov

[aimarraul]

Russia rejects MiG-29K for Kuznetsov

http://russiadefence.englishboard.net/t1520-russia-rejects-mig-29k-for-kuznetsov
Êîðàáåëüíûé "ÌèÃ" ïðîëåòåë ìèìî ïàëóáû - ÂÏÊ.name

At the MAKS-2011 August 16 revealed that the Defense Ministry refused to buy from the RAC "MiG" 24 aircraft for the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov". Not only that the machine gives the characteristics of a heavy Su-33, so still it turned out that she has a problem with the onboard electronics. In addition, it is still unclear why the plane crashed two months ago on trial in Akhtubinsk - literally fell apart in the air during a complex maneuver.

Electronics ship "MiG" was originally created to supply to India. This country, in 2004 we bought the cruiser "Admiral Gorshkov" aircraft and 29. The fulfillment of this contract has not yet been completed.

Western avionics of the native "guts" of the aircraft are incompatible with Russian hardware. Therefore, for the Ministry of Defence RAC "MiG" Russian Aircraft retrofitted devices - and their quality did not suit the customer.

The military also talk about an inflated price of aircraft.

At the RAC "MiG" is calculated by year's end to finalize the on-board electronics and sign the contract. "Otherwise, the company faces closure after the Indian contract", - the deputy director of the Institute of Military Studies, Alexander Khramchikhin.

The only possible alternative to the "MiGs" is the Su-33 company "Sukhoi". His fighting ability was confirmed by August 17 at the exercises in the Barents Sea, during which two dozen Su-33 successfully boarded by being on the high seas cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov" and returned to base. This machine is also interested in China, which has not yet created such a machine for its aircraft carriers.

- MiG-29 is physically newer, as the Su-33 was produced in 1990, and everything else is second - recognizes Khramchikhin.

The problem is that the Su-33 for four years is not performed.

- To restore its production at Komsomolsk-on-Amur, or in another plant will need two or three years - said the representative of the United Aircraft Company, which consists of all Russian aircraft factories and design offices.

Defense talks with the RAC "MiG" continuing, but they are hampered another challenge. Two months ago, crashed during testing of the MiG-29K in dvuhpilotnom version ("SPARK"). Test pilots Kruzhalin Alexander and Oleg Match died.

Cause of the accident is still unknown. According to preliminary reports, the plane dropped off down the wing, may not withstand the stresses.

Denis Thalmann


Russian military refuses to buy MiG-29K due to electronics problems

Text of report by the website of pro-government Russian newspaper Izvestiya on 17 August

[Report by Denis Telmanov: "Ship-borne MiG files past deck. Defence Ministry rejects MiG-29 because of problems revealed with onboard electronics"]

At the MAKS-2011 air show 16 August it turned out that the Defence Ministry is refusing to buy 24 aircraft from the MiG RSK [Russian Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation] for the aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov. Not only are the machine's specifications inferior to the heavier Su-33's but it has also come to light that it has problems with the onboard electronics. In addition, it is still unclear why the aircraft crashed

 

[Project 627]

It's just the usual B.S from media. Just like how they announced the failure of the Bulava launch a couple of days ago that turned out to be B.S because Bulava had a successful test three days ago. The Russian Navy is going to order the Mig-29K their just arguing over Price.

 

[Imran Khan]

Ogannisyan8887
dear looking like they pay you kickbacks hehehehehe or you are mig's promotional manager lolz

 

[Archie]

What the article is saying is that Russians feel that Su33 is superior to Mig29K
Also RAC MIG was asking 50 Million USD for Mig29k , thats the same price as Mig35 which is half a generation ahead of it
Well that to some extend is true in the same sence as Su30MKI of IAF is superior to Mig29smt

Even Indian navy for that matter had sent RFI to Russia for Su33 apart from RFI for Sea Typhoon , Rafale M , Sea Gripen , F/A18 Super Hornet and F35
what that means is that even India is looking for a better Fighter for its NEXT GEN CARRIER navy than Mig29K , and they too consider Su33 upg to be better than Mig29K

 

[Project 627]

The last day of the show was marred by the aborted takeoff of the prototype of the Sukhoi T-50 5th generation fighter, the showpiece of MAKS-2011.

According to eyewitness reports, as the jet sped down the runway, with afterburners switched on, two torch-like flames erupted from the starboard engine. Test pilot Sergei Bogdan deployed the drag parachute and rolled to the end of the runway (Zhukovsky Air Base has one of the world's longest). No casualties or damage were reported. It was later determined that the right engine's automated system had malfunctioned.

The T-50 is actually a rather crude prototype. Not all the kinks have been worked out in the new technologies used in the aircraft. Also, the T-50 is powered by an interim engine mode; an engine that will meet required parameters is still in the development phase.

The incident, however, may overshadow the far more serious issues facing combat aviation.
Where are the contracts?

The fact that no large contracts were signed at MAKS-2011 with the Russian armed forces and foreign militaries underscores the seriousness of the situation. The media had reported that the Russian military would sign contracts at the show for the purchase of 60 of the latest Yak-130 combat trainer aircraft and 24 deck-based MiG-29K/KUB fighters, worth a total of $3 billion, but this did not come to pass.

Experts do not believe that the military backed out over concerns about technical defects.
Technical problems in a modern warplane are inevitable, according to Konstantin Makienko, deputy director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. They can be easily resolved during additional negotiations between the customer and the developer. Makienko believes that any bugs in the MiG-29K have already been worked through. "India buys it actively, because the Indian military has experience using deck-based aviation comparable with that of the Russian navy,"
Makienko said, noting the demand for the Russian fighter plane on the global market, which underscores the aircraft's quality.

"The quality of Russian aviation is not in question; it has always been high," says Igor Korotchenko, editor-in-chief of Natsionalnaya Oborona (National Defense) magazine. He told RIA Novosti that he believes the situation reflects how difficult it has been for the industry and the Defense Ministry to agree on price. "This is the current trend with the ministry," Korotchenko believes. He noted that in his view the process will soon be complete.

The Defense Ministry's penny pinching has been in evidence for a long time now, and some observers believe that this, along with the inflexible stand taken by some companies, contributed to the disruptions in the state defense order in 2010 and 2011.

"The Defense Ministry is acting like a bookkeeper, or rather a publican," Makienko told RIA Novosti. "Its objective is to reduce the price of a contract by all means. Hence this situation."
MiG-35: Likely prospects

The Russian aircraft corporation MiG showed its MiG-35 multirole fighter at the MAKS-2011. The Russian military, despite the setback suffered by the 35 at a recent Indian tender, still regards it as a candidate for the intermediate upgrading of aging MiG-29 fighters.

Time marches on, but no information is yet available on even scheduled purchases of MiG-35s. While earlier this situation could be explained away by "general shortages", now this argument does not work: the air force is beginning to purchase the equipment it needs.

Commenting on the future of the MiG-29/MiG-35 family in Russia's air force, Igor Korotchenko noted that MiG-29 fighters in service with the air force are unlikely to be upgraded. But, in Korotchenko's opinion, the Defense Ministry might purchase some MiG-35s in addition to the T-50s. "This should be done if only to support the plane's export prospects," he explained to RIA Novosti.

Initially, the MiG-35 project grew out of the experimental-design work to upgrade the MiG-29K carrier-based multirole fighter (NATO reporting name Fulcrum-D). These two fighters are unified to a large degree. But the MiG-35 boasts a number of improvements, especially its on-board electronic equipment and avionics.

In Konstantin Makienko's view, the best alternative for the MiG-35 is to return to its roots, so to say. "The idea is to make the most of scientific, technical and technological solutions found for the MiG-35 in the production and further development of the MiG-29K," the expert explained to RIA Novosti. "So that it could stay ahead of France's Dassault Rafale deck modification and the future carrier-based Eurofighter Typhoon for another 10 to 15 years."


MAKS-2011 also failed to clarify whether Russian aircraft builders and the military see a niche for a second, light 5th generation fighter. Recall that the 4th generation fighters were traditionally divided into two groups.

The United States' F-15 Eagle twin-engine heavy fighters were followed by the world's only operational F-22 Raptor 5th generation fighter, while in the case of Russia's Su-27s, it is the T-50 prototype.

But in the niche created for light tactical fighters, the situation is far more muddled. In the next ten years, the U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon will be replaced by the F-35 Lightning II, currently undergoing tests. But it is anybody's guess if Russia's MiG-29 light fighter will have a 5th generation cousin. Any observer has the right to ask: now that the MiG-29/MiG-35s are being adopted in the air force with such difficulties, will the new project have better prospects?

Asked if a 5th generation light fighter could be really developed, Igor Korotchenko told RIA Novosti that he believes the T-50, showcased at the MAKS-2011, would completely fill the niche both for a heavy and a light aircraft. "It might also provide a commercial platform for a multirole tactical fighter," Korotchenko suggested, commenting on the export outlook for Russian 5G models.
According to Konstantin Makienko, however, two factors will be central to the development of a 5th generation light fighter.

One is the workload on research and technical specialists at the Sukhoi Company. "A factor in favor of the light fighter project is the fact that when Sukhoi engineers put the finishing touches to the T-50, which is likely to occur in 2015-2017, another goal will have to be set for them; otherwise their potential will be wasted," Makienko speculated, warning against a repeat of the typical 1990s situation in the defense sector.
The second factor may be the development of a powerful and reliable next-generation jet engine.

"A light fighter requires an engine with a thrust of 18 or, better still, 20 tons," Makienko says. "If we have such an engine, we will have good prospects for a light aircraft."

At the moment, no such engine is produced by the Russian aircraft industry. But, following the logic of unification (which the Americans used when developing the twin-engine F-15 and the single-engine F-16), one can presume that the "second-phase engine" (also known as "Item 129") may play this role in the future. It is currently being developed for the T-50.
Same and the show

MAKS-2011 provided further evidence that the state defense order is in trouble.
Russia's military-industrial sector - composed of rusty remnants of the Soviet defense industry no longer able to supply large quantities of modern weapons and run by military managers not always capable of formulating a clear defense strategy - is getting off the ground slowly and painfully.

Many issues concerning Russia's tactical aviation in the medium and long term still remain unresolved (apart from the more or less clear prospects for the T-50).

As for current defense projects, they are becoming ever more difficult to handle, reflecting the Defense Ministry stubborn insistence of measuring quality in terms of cost savings and defense industry executives' determination to stand up for profit as a factor determining the strategic growth of science-based industry.

This is the natural result of businesses and government departments looking after their own interests. But the price is lost contracts worth billions and delays in the development of principles to govern the transformation of the armed forces.

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20110823/166091624.html

Like I this is about price their is nothing wrong with Mig-29K, so you should stop posting B.S articles.

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

Well the Brahmos could operate from the Su-33 after appropriate modifications, but that's speculation at this time. A modernized Su-33 would probably have the same weapon optinos an Su-27SM, so here's the actual weapon loadout options from KnAAPO. It can carry a variety of smaller munitions, but large carrier-killer AShMs would indeed be too large.

ÊÍÀÀÏΠÎøèáêà 404: ñòðàíèöà íå íàéäåíà

The main missiles would be the Kh-31A and Kh-29T, with ranges of 110 and 10 km each.

Traditionally Soviet carrier aircraft were organic fleet air defense, with the offensive power of the fleet being AShMs from AVMF, as well as ship launched, and submarines. Whether this conception is changing remains to be seen. The MiG-29K is however a multi-role, and quite capable of carrying out strike missions using both the Kh-29, Kh-31, as well as the Kh-25 and Kh-35U. The Su-33 is rumoerd to have the ability to carry Kh-41 (SS-N-22 Sunburn). Both have mid-air refueling capability.

The MiG-29K would presumably also be a more modern fighter. It features the Zhuk-M(E) radar and is optimized to receive the Zhuk-AE as soon as it's ready. In fact the MiG-29K production variant for the AVMF may carry the Zhuk-AE, as production is not set to start for a little longer.

On the other hand the long term upgrade potential for the Su-33 may include the M2 package for the Flankers.

 

[Project 627]

This is a B.S thread started by someone well known by his anti-Russian threads.

Like I my article I posted above proves that their is nothing wrong with Mig-29K, this is just about price that all.

 

[Imran Khan]

if you are over reacting on MIGS let me show you mirror how mig-29 soviet junk sucks in war times and peace times? i think you never forget Georgie war ? how many times this junk grounded completely? its Indian contracts which give life to MIG company otherwise its almost closed .you should speared this BS somewhere else and control your tongue as we dont care what a Russian dude bashing and defending its jung . these are low quality migs which called flying coffins ? its mig company which sale old jets with names of new you remember? MIG-29 is little more modern junk then mig-21 and its record is very bad we know well .even Lebanon refuse to take it free go sale to Uganda or some AIDS infected African country .BTW even india is gone away from this junk and refuse to take mig-35 in future contracts .

 

[Zabaniyah]

if you are over reacting on MIGS let me show you mirror how mig-29 soviet junk sucks in war times and peace times? i think you never forget Georgie war ? how many times this junk grounded completely? its Indian contracts which give life to MIG company otherwise its almost closed .you should speared this BS somewhere else and control your tongue as we dont care what a Russian dude bashing and defending its jung . these are low quality migs which called flying coffins ? its mig company which sale old jets with names of new you remember? MIG-29 is little more modern junk then mig-21 and its record is very bad we know well .even Lebanon refuse to take it free go sale to Uganda or some AIDS infected African country .BTW even india is gone away from this junk and refuse to take mig-35 in future contracts .

The MiG-29 is a capable jet in trained hands, and provided that the country is self sufficient, and has access to the necessary periodic upgrades.

The Gulf War? Please...

It's stupid for Lebanon to put its MiG deal on hold. They need jets badly. Hell, they don't even have an air force! They need it to defend from the Israelis.

Whatever happened in Georgia, that M1 SAM was acquired illegally by the Georgians. That is why the Russians can't hack into it. Must have been embarrassing for them.

The MiG-35 was rejected during the MRCA competition over technical reasons. Not even the American birds made it.

 

[Imran Khan]

This is a B.S thread started by someone well known by his anti-Russian threads.

Like I my article I posted above proves that their is nothing wrong with Mig-29K, this is just about price that all.

this is not BS like your junk look at realty of this junk




Another MiG-29 Grounding
Attrition: Another MiG-29 Grounding

MiG-29 Still Grounded
Ú-Ãàçåòà - Ðîññèéñêèå èñòðåáèòåëè íà÷àëà èñòðåáëÿòü ñòàðîñòü


Russia grounded all MiG-29, Indian MiG-29K carrier-based aircraft orders

???????29 ???29K???????_??_???

Russian fighter force grounded after MiG29 crash
Russian fighter force grounded after MiG29 crash - Times Online

Navy for grounding MiG-29, IAF differs
Navy for grounding MiG-29, IAF differs - Hindustan Times


High command orders to ground all MiG-29, pilot died when jet crashed:Siberia.
High command orders to ground all MiG-29, pilot died when jet crashed:Siberia.




Russia Grounds MiG-29s after Fatal Crash
Russia Grounds MiG-29s after Fatal Crash | We Who Served


Another MiG Mess For The Mongols
Another MiG Mess For The Mongols


Moldova to sell grounded MiG-29A warplanes
Moldova to sell grounded MiG-29A warplanes | World | RIA Novosti

 

[Vibs]

if you are over reacting on MIGS let me show you mirror how mig-29 soviet junk sucks in war times and peace times? i think you never forget Georgie war ? how many times this junk grounded completely? its Indian contracts which give life to MIG company otherwise its almost closed .you should speared this BS somewhere else and control your tongue as we dont care what a Russian dude bashing and defending its jung . these are low quality migs which called flying coffins ? its mig company which sale old jets with names of new you remember? MIG-29 is little more modern junk then mig-21 and its record is very bad we know well .even Lebanon refuse to take it free go sale to Uganda or some AIDS infected African country .BTW even india is gone away from this junk and refuse to take mig-35 in future contracts .

Mig29 and Mig29K are two entirely different planes. Do not compare them. Mig 35 was rejected due totechnical reasons,and so were the F-16's and F-18's. There was a problem with the air frame corroding due to design issues in the past.But they were sufficiently rectified. One would be foolish to assume them to be obsolete.
Mig 21's used to be amazing planes. The reason for recent crashes are because they are over 30-40 years old.

The MiG-29 is a capable jet in trained hands, and provided that the country is self sufficient, and has access to the necessary periodic upgrades.

The Gulf War? Please...

It's stupid for Lebanon to put its MiG deal on hold. They need jets badly. Hell, they don't even have an air force! They need it to defend from the Israelis.

Whatever happened in Georgia, that M1 SAM was acquired illegally by the Georgians. That is why the Russians can't hack into it. Must have been embarrassing for them.

The MiG-35 was rejected during the MRCA competition over technical reasons. Not even the American birds made it.

Was curious about the mig29's with Bangladesh. Did you guys also upgrade the plane after the air frame issue was detected as the cause for wearing out of the body?

 

[Black Widow]

What the article is saying is that Russians feel that Su33 is superior to Mig29K
Also RAC MIG was asking 50 Million USD for Mig29k , thats the same price as Mig35 which is half a generation ahead of it
Well that to some extend is true in the same sence as Su30MKI of IAF is superior to Mig29smt

Even Indian navy for that matter had sent RFI to Russia for Su33 apart from RFI for Sea Typhoon , Rafale M , Sea Gripen , F/A18 Super Hornet and F35
what that means is that even India is looking for a better Fighter for its NEXT GEN CARRIER navy than Mig29K , and they too consider Su33 upg to be better than Mig29K

I don't know how true is the news... @ MiG29K Vs MiG35: MiG29K is carrier born fighter, It has to be costly. If you know something bout cost of AC fighter you might be knowing that they cost 20-25% higher than the Land base fighters. So please stop spreading misinformation on price.

Su33 is undoubtedly better than MiG29K, and costly too. It was the cost which force Russia to choose MiG29K not quality..

India asked RFP for Su33, But as Russia is not considering it, they will not open an assembly line. Sea typhoon, Rafael, F35 is obviously superior than MiG29K. But they are costly too. Sea typhoon or rafael M will not cost lesser than 120 mill. F35C will cost much higher .

 

[Project 627]

if you are over reacting on MIGS let me show you mirror how mig-29 soviet junk sucks in war times and peace times? i think you never forget Georgie war ? how many times this junk grounded completely? its Indian contracts which give life to MIG company otherwise its almost closed .you should speared this BS somewhere else and control your tongue as we dont care what a Russian dude bashing and defending its jung . these are low quality migs which called flying coffins ? its mig company which sale old jets with names of new you remember? MIG-29 is little more modern junk then mig-21 and its record is very bad we know well .even Lebanon refuse to take it free go sale to Uganda or some AIDS infected African country .BTW even india is gone away from this junk and refuse to take mig-35 in future contracts .

First i can barely understand your broken english, second the only B.S here is coming out of your mouth buddy, making stupid comments on a subject you have zero knowledge of, i have already posed a article proving that their is nothing wrong with Mig-29K, this argument between MIG and Russian NAVY is about price nothing more.

Flying coffin LOL stupid First of all Mig-21 in indian air force is over freaking 50 years old, Mig-21 crashes in Soviet Air force was about 30 times lower and add to fact that spare parts for the Mig-21 are not produced anymore. Calling the Mig-29 upgraded Mig-21 know shows your knowledge of aviation which zero, for example as Zabanya always pointed out his country had the Mig-29 for 10 years and their has not been a single crash.

 

[Imran Khan]

First i can barely understand your broken english, second the only B.S here is coming out of your mouth buddy, making stupid comments on a subject you have zero knowledge of, i have already posed a article proving that their is nothing wrong with Mig-29K, this argument between MIG and Russian NAVY is about price nothing more.

Flying coffin LOL stupid First of all Mig-21 in indian air force is over freaking 50 years old, Mig-21 crashes in Soviet Air force was about 30 times lower and add to fact that spare parts for the Mig-21 are not produced anymore. Calling the Mig-29 upgraded Mig-21 know shows your knowledge of aviation which zero, for example as Zabanya always pointed out his country had the Mig-29 for 10 years and their has not been a single crash.

now i can understand your pain lolz still junk will remain junk .now its not cold war era dude .world has better choices now in east and west thats why your junk stay in russia and you offer it free to every one.just look at tech of france EU USA and then look back red green blue painted junk .i think you forget with westren tech we kick A$$ of your air force in 80s? you lose 8 and pakistan 0 just because your pilots was flying on junk.what you expect from russian navy they have to buy from USA f-18 lolz they have no choice but to buy russian junk .

 

[Zabaniyah]

Was curious about the mig29's with Bangladesh. Did you guys also upgrade the plane after the air frame issue was detected as the cause for wearing out of the body?

No upgrades yet. But they were overhauled in Ukraine.
See post #19 by mil-avia:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ig-29-ub-fighters-bangladesh-air-force-2.html