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REPORT: Germany ‘Annexing’ Dutch Military As Secretive EU Army Begins To Take Shape

Vergennes

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God help us if there's an european army under german's command.

@Taygibay @Blue Marlin @Penguin @flamer84 @mike2000 is back @Hamartia Antidote @A.P. Richelieu @waz @Steve781
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The German and Dutch armies and navies are poised to “merge”, creating the nucleus of the European Union’s longed for pan-EU military force. Pointing to German ministerial statements spelling out the creation of an EU Army as the ultimate goal, critics say Britain’s military will not be able to avoid being sucked in if the country remains within the Union.

The German government has revealed that Dutch and German land armies and navies are set to move towards “closer integration”, with two Dutch units already coming under German command. Last month the Dutch 43rd Mechanised Brigade was subsumed into the German 1st Armoured Division, following the takeover of the Dutch 11th Airmobile Brigade by German command last year.

The two countries are also already sharing the Netherland’s largest war ship, the Karel Doorman, and aim to merge its two naval powers into one unified navy within the next two years.

That leaves the Netherlands with just the 13th Mechanised Brigade to its name, along with special forces and military infrastructure, but the plan is to accelerate towards a merger of these entities within the next few years, Germany’s Sachsische Zeitung confirms.

And according to insiders, the Czech Republic has now entered talks to bring its army under German control, with the Poles also mooted to be part of the plan.

The accelerated timetable follows a speech given by Germany’s Defence Minister Ursula von der Leye last year, in which she stated the overall aim of merging Europe’s defence forces into one unified army.

“The European Army is our long-term goal, but first we have to strengthen the European Defence Union,” she said, adding: “To achieve this, some nations with concrete military cooperation must come to the fore – and the Germans and the Dutch are doing this.”

As Britain prepares to go to the polls to vote on whether or not to remain within the European Union, UK Independence Party Defence spokesman Mike Hookem MEP has warned that if the country does opt to remain, the British military forces will not be able to resist the same fate.

“The EU is moving towards a common defence and foreign policy regime with an EU army as the goal,” he said. “While Britain remains in the EU, we cannot escape being part of this dangerous setup. The EU was supposed to be about corralling Germany military dominance in Europe. That aspiration has clearly died and just as Germany now politically dominates the EU, this latest move with the Dutch army shows that in time Germany wants to expand and control as much as it can militarily.”

Another UKIP source described the move as “a bizarre, voluntary annexation” adding: “I doubt very much that the new Polish Government would be going down the same route, despite the confidence of the German defence establishment”.

And Mr. Hookem warned that the Army will not be a benign force, dedicated only to the defence of the Union, pointing out that there has already been lobbying in European circles for intervention in Libya, and indeed European Commission President Jean Claude Juncker’s statements on the matter: “You would not create a European army to use it immediately… But a common army among the Europeans would convey to Russia that we are serious about defending the values of the European Union.”

UKIP’s leader Nigel Farage had previously issued multiple warnings about a European Union (EU) – mostly dismissed by the British political establishment and media classes. Most notably, then Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg insisted in a live debate with Mr. Farage ahead of the 2014 European Elections, “The idea there’s going to be a European army, a European air force, it is simply not true” calling Mr. Farage’s claims a “dangerous fantasy”.

In September last year the Telegraph reported that German chancellor Angela Merkel expected British PM David Cameron to “drop his opposition to an EU army in exchange for supporting Britain’s [EU] renegotiation”. Mr. Cameron is believed to have dropped his opposition, in exchange for a widely mocked “renegotiation” deal with the European Union. Mr. Cameron did not arrive at Heston airport after his meeting with Mrs. Merkel.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-forces-merge-bringing-eu-army-a-step-closer/
 
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I see nothing wrong with it.

The Poles or the Czechs have no hopes of ever becoming a world power in their life times.

They will be steamrolled by a Russian onslaught. Coming under a German-led European defensive umbrella can ensure that Russian bad intentions can be kept in check.
 
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God help us if there's an european army under german's command.

I was just preparing that comment when I saw you tagged me in this thread.:lol:

I see nothing wrong with it.

The Poles or the Czechs have no hopes of ever becoming a world power in their life times.

They will be steamrolled by a Russian onslaught. Coming under a German-led European defensive umbrella can ensure that Russian bad intentions can be kept in check.


There's nothing wrong with the ideea but the French or Brits are more up to the task.German led Army means under 1% Defence budgets and leftist hippies testing APC's for carrying pregnant women certification.
 
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There's nothing wrong with the ideea but the French or Brits are more up to the task.German led Army means under 1% Defence budgets and leftist hippies testing APC's for carrying pregnant women certification.

One thing I agree with Trump on: Europe needs to pull its weight in defence matters.
 
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Don't know man,they seem to hate their Armed Forces with a passion.
I always thought like...Germans lost their chance to be a global power like France and UK....also are not under the threat of Russia like Eastern European countries......so, why to pour Billions into defense industry if you are not going to use it anyways....

But if they get the charge...they could be serious......that said i don't really know German culture, what German people think...as much as you guys....mine is just an observation from far away.
 
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No thank you, It is and always will be the British army for us. Our population wants none of it. Good luck to other European nations who want to go ahead with this.

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Just a matter of (too little) defence spending, and the (for man small countries unaffordable) cost of supporting high end systems. So, what do you do? You pool recources.

There will not be a merging of the Dutch and German navy in the coming 2 years, or beyond.

From the 2016 Defence budget of the Netherlands:
2. Further deepening international defense cooperation

In order to continue to cope with threats and risks, a further deepening of defense cooperation is necessary. Enables the employability and sustainability of the armed forces can be strengthened and gaps can be compensated. Germany and the Netherlands intend to integrate the 43rd Mechanised Brigade in Havelte in a German armored division. Germany thereby integrates a tank battalion in the Dutch squad and the Netherlands provides the staff for a company of this German tank battalion. As part of this collaboration, the Netherlands will introduce the last sixteen remaining Leopard 2A6 tanks. With this groundbreaking way to collaborate Netherlands and Germany will soon have a fully integrated operational combat brigade with infantry, tanks and other capacities. Both countries can decide on the use of capacities.

The cooperation shows that Germany and the Netherlands make serious efforts to strive for the further strengthening of European defense capabilities. Thus a greater contribution is also supplied to NATO. Also fits this collaboration with the increased importance of the collective defense of Allied territory and the reassuring measures for the Eastern allies. In that context, the Defence organization will intensify contacts with the Baltic States and Poland in particular. So will provide military Netherlands for NATO Force Integration Units in each of these countries. In Estonia there is already cooperation in the area of the CV-90 armored vehicles have been sold to that country. Furthermore Defense will often go to practice in these countries.

Also with other countries, as is known, more intensive cooperation in many fields. Thus, the joint airspace surveillance in Benelux context, after parliamentary approval in the three countries will start end of 2016. The operational test and evaluation phase of the F-35 will be continued in 2016 with the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia. In France there is an intensive cooperation in the framework of the UN operation in Mali. Defence is with Norway in talks on cooperation in the replacement of the submarines. Together with the Baltic States, Denmark, Norway and the United Kingdom will continue on the development of the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF). This fall, the House will receive a comprehensive overview of the international military cooperation, in the annual report.
http://www.rijksbegroting.nl/2016/voorbereiding/begroting,kst212228_5.html

The core fighting element of the army consists of three brigades: 11th Airmobile Brigade, 13th Light Brigade and 43rd Mechanized Brigade. The Dutch army supplies about 100 troops for the German/Dutch 414th Panzer Battalion, which fields the only Dutch tank squadron with 18 tanks. In addition to these tanks, we have 149 CV9035NL, of which 40 are in storage, 17 for training and 92 in active service. Structure of the Royal Netherlands Army 2016.

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Future changes Dutch Navy
  • The Walrus-class submarines are currently undergoing a Mid-Life Update, including new sonar, new optronic periscope and weapon upgrades for near shore operations. Plans to replace the current 4 subs in 2025 were announced in November 2014. The Royal Dutch Navy is evaluating international cooperation.
  • Upgrading the De Zeven Provinciën class LCF frigates Theatre Ballistic Missile Defense and considered SLCM integration.
  • Replacement of the Karel Doorman class M frigates by 2023.
  • Replacement of the Alkmaar class MCM ships by mid 2020s.
  • Increasing the size of the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps and further integration with the British Royal Marines.
  • Cooperation and possible integration with the German Navy regarding Submarine Planning, Operations, Training and Building Future Replacements, MPA's and Marines.
In February it was decided that the Dutch navy would incidentally share the use of the Karel Doorman with the German Navy.

Germany is also a user of the Karel Doorman, a logistics support ship. The Seebataillon of the German navy will be included in the Royal [Dutch] Navy. The Seebataillon consists among other divers, amphibious reconnaissance and mine experts.
It is the first time that a unit of the German army comes under the authority of another country, in this case the Netherlands. Conversely, this is already the case. For example, thousands of soldiers from the Mobile Brigade covered by a German commander. And a Dutch tank unit merged with the German First Armoured Division.

European defense cooperation

Example 1: European countries share their transport planes in a so-called pole. They are allowed to 'closed purses "of each other's aircraft use and coordinate their tasks. Instead of three small aircraft, for example flying a large plane with supplies for the UN peacekeeping mission in Mali.

Example 2: The European countries send jointly a mobile laboratory to Afghanistan to roadside bombs can be searched. The countries share information and bomb makers can be detected more quickly.
http://nos.nl/artikel/2084723-nederlandse-en-duitse-marine-gaan-intensief-samenwerken.html

German soldiers are eager to use the largest Dutch naval vessel, the Zr. Ms. Karel Doorman. The deal, to be clinched Thursday, according to some marine experts is a godsend for the Germans. Self-skin they apply for years over the construction of two similar ships, but this they did not get on each other's hands.

It will be to get used to the 152 permanent crew of the sailing giant that is now docked in Amsterdam. As Defence Minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert and her colleague Ursula von der Leyen Thursday have put their signatures sounds no longer only Dutch on board, but also German. Divers, amphibious reconnaissance, mine experts and engineers of the 'Seebataillon' will from then arranged to stay on board to practice and possibly to carry out missions.

Goodbye
The partnership, according to Defence should work a textbook example of how armies in Europe to enhance the combat effectiveness. But it has come to this, it is perhaps just as special. Namely Netherlands had taken almost goodbye to the flying behemoth. Construction of the Joint Support Ship 'cost 400 million euros, but with an ever shrinking armed forces there was no place for such a large ship, Hennis-Plasschaert judged yet in 2013. Before the ship was officially put into use, there was been looking for a buyer.

So far it did not. Navy sputtered and the opposition in parliament. The vessel was allowed to stay, but only if there could be found a fellow user. And it came faster than expected. Germany's years shy to a flying giant which they can move their Marines. This need appears according to naval expert and editor of marineschepen.nl Jaime Karremann, more than ever as the peacekeeping mission in Somalia ending nearly disastrous in 1993.


Seebataillon
The Germans have just shed their amphibious units, but if the situation gets out of hand in the country, they manage just to safely evacuate their troops. The 'Seebataillon' is restored directly honor and the country is looking for amphibious transport ships. Ideally they themselves had two similar ships as purchased Karel Doorman. But politically they get their hands there for each other. If in 2013 it appears that the Dutch do not actually know what they need with the Karel Doorman, a collaboration quickly around.

For Germany this is a dream deal, judges marine expert Karremann of marineschepen.nl. Without self ,, to build a ship, they may soon be using. "" But for the Netherlands it is but a shabby compromise, he says. Netherlands used the Karel Doorman for supplies at sea. ,, That capacity must now share them. '' But Germany definitely does not come better deal than the Netherlands, says spokesman Klaas Meijer of Defense. ,, If Germany wants to use the Karel Doorman, we get supply ships of their borrow '' he says. Even now he points out that Dutch marines can use all the capabilities of the ship, something they had nothing else to do. ,, And the deal is also that we can make use of German tanks. ''
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1012/Nederla...en-dolgraag-op-onze-Karel-Doorman-varen.dhtml

"In all cases the national government retains the final say on the deployment of troops."

So when the eastern neighbors go participate in a mission that is not supported in the Netherlands, the Dutch remain at home. "The agreements are now focused so that we benefit from the cooperation, but retain control over the deployment of troops."

This increasingly close cooperation with the German armed forces is born of necessity by a shrinking defense budget. There you can look at two ways, says Landman. "We loose sovereignty by placing Dutch soldiers in German divisions. At the same time, we increase our capacity to act thus. The tanks and the Karel Doorman stood in the 'for sale' window because we could not afford it. Now these elements of the armed forces are retained. "
http://duitslandnieuws.nl/archief/2016/01/nederland-kan-zonder-het-duitse-leger-niet-overleven/

JSS Doorman: 28,246 t full load
JSS_Karel_Doorman_in_Den_Helder.jpg
 
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It would be , a sad earth once the nukes go off -_- enjoy the lovely weather while it lasts

Just sitting in my room , and I can hear the birds sing outside and the clouds float by and the sky is calm and friendly


But .... arms building is eventually going to cause a major conflict
 
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Wishful thinking. Washington led NATO will not allow other "independent" entity. Idea may gain some momentum if pentagon concludes it being an useful tool just to protect EU against Russia. Again as a dependent entity of pentagon not as an independent one !
 
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God help us if there's an european army under german's command.

What if there were two ? Two European Armies I mean?
The one centered on Deutschland does EU waters with Holland and also
long term-long range monitoring of Slavic threat with NATO's cell number handy.
They could also check out social movements like parents protesting kindergarten
prices raise and stuff.

The other one centered on France and Great-Britain with Holland's SFs & Polish
ones and a coalition of the willing and able ...
will go kick jazz where it's needed!
Fixed that fer ya, Tay.
 
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Yay Germany!

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More proof Europe's seriously foOked.

But who else but the Germans are better qualified to lead ? :what:

The British are busy with football, pubs and clubs ! :unsure:

The French are more preoccupied with love, poetry, a bit of wine and the occasional macaron ! :undecided:

The Italians are the best at the Battle of Chefs but not too sure about real war ! :azn:

While the Scandinavians are more like Fairy Princesses wearing a pink tutu than Viking Warriors ! :tongue:

The Germans....ja...the Germans are the ones who are best qualified to lead ! :smokin:

Or you could just put me in command 'cause I'm Rommel, Napoleon, Patton and Montgomery all rolled into one ! :D
 
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