Replacing Pakistan Navy's Westland Sea King helicopters.

[Kompromat]

Pakistan Navy bought Westland Sea King helicopters in mid 70s for ASW and SAR roles. These helis are getting close to their retirement age. Discuss in this thread the potential candidates for replacing these old workhorses.

@Rashid Mahmood @Neptune @Penguin @SvenSvensonov and others.

 

[VCheng]

Technically, there are many options, but in the end, it will all boil down to who is financing the deal and how.

 

[Kompromat]

Technically, there are many options, but in the end, it will all boil down to who is financing the deal and how.

Don't think replacing a handful Sea Kings is going to be a huge deal.

 

[DirtyCop]

Not sure about SAR, but Z9EC must be performing the ASW role well.

 

[VCheng]

Don't think replacing a handful Sea Kings is going to be a huge deal.

I would agree with you, but it all depends what shape the economy is in given a few more years of the present government, wouldn't you say?

 

[Kompromat]

I would agree with you, but it all depends what shape the economy is in given a few more years of the present government, wouldn't you say?

No one can disagree to that.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Stay away from the NH-90 (too many problems), but if Pakistan can get Congressional approval, and that doesn't seem like too much of a problem, than the S-70b would be my preferred option (not because I'm an American and would like to see American products being sold, but because it's one of the most capable platforms available). India's considering the S-70b, and Pakistan could opt for it as well to maintain parity. It's a bit costly, but offers great performance, avionics, ASW electronics and attack capabilities, plus its size would fit most ships in the Pakistani Navy. These wouldn't be second-hand systems either, they would be fresh off the production line.

The Chinese Z-9 would be another good candidate, and one that is already used by Pakistan, it's just less mature than the S-70b at this point in both air-frames respective lives. The Z-9 is smaller and less capable than the S-70 though (being about half the size), but the small size could allow for more to be carried on any given ship. The Ka-28 is a significantly downgraded option too.

 

[VCheng]

No one can disagree to that.

That is exactly why I said before that in the end, it will all boil down to who is financing the deal and how.

 

[Kompromat]

Stay away from the NH-90 (too many problems), but if Pakistan can get Congressional approval, and that doesn't seem like too much of a problem, than the S-70b would be my preferred option (not because I'm an American and would like to see American products being sold, but because its one of the most capable platforms available). India's considering the S-70b, and Pakistan could opt for it as well to maintain parity. It's a bit costly, but offers great performance, avionics, ASW electronics and attack capabilities, plus its size would fit most ships in the Pakistani Navy. These wouldn't be second-hand systems either, they would be fresh off the production line.

The Chinese Z-9 would be another good candidate, and one that is already used by Pakistan, it's just less mature than the S-70b at this point in both air-frames respective lives. The Z-9 is smaller and less capable than the S-70 though (being about half the size), but the small size could allow for more to be carried on any given ship. The Ka-28 is a significantly downgraded option too.

What is the unit cost of the S-70B?

 

[niaz]

UK plans to replace Sea Kings with Merlins. Merlin Unit cost in 2009 dollars was $21-million, probably closer to $30-million now.

If we would like to replace PN Sea Kings, new helicopter should be able to perform Search & Rescue as well as act as ASW platform, thus we would need a big helicopter and costs would be similar. This means roughly $200-million for 6 units.
A cheaper alternative would be to buy second hand Sea Kings or Sikorsky S-61 (US designation of Sea King) and have these totally refurbished. We could probably get away with half the price. PN' existing Sea Kings can then be cannibalised and used for spares This would also save time and effort on retraining the support & logistics for the new helicopters.Refurbished helicopters should be good another 10-15 years.

After all we Navy is still acquiring refurbished Alouette III’s, why not refurbished Sea Kings. Doubt that Z-9 can do all what Sea kings are capable of. Besides Z-9 is really the Chinese version of French Dauphin, thus based on an old design.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

What is the unit cost of the S-70B?

S-70b per unit cost is about 30m USD (28.5m). So much more expensive than the Z-9, which from what I could gather has a per unit cost of 11m USD (accurate estimations of the Z-9 are hard to find), but Pakistan could write of the expense at the detriment of the US tax payer if included in their annual military aid package, so cost might not be the most pressing concern. Also the S-70b is more than twice the size of the Z-9 so the cost higher cost is justified.

(updated to include a more accurate Z-9 cost, previous stated cost was 4.5m USD)

Z-9 cost information from CHINA’S ULTRAMODERN AND FRESHLY INDUCTED 95 METRE 1,440 TON TYPE 056 CORVETTE AND HARBIN Z-9 HELICOPTER PAIRING RE-EXAMINED ; WORKABLE TEMPLATE FOR NIGERIA’S INCOMING 1800 TON P18N STEALTH OPVs | Beegeagle's Blog

 

[Donatello]

S-70b per unit cost is about 30m USD (28.5m). So much more expensive than the Z-9, which from what I could gather has a per unit cost of 11m USD (accurate estimations of the Z-9 are hard to find), but Pakistan could write of the expense at the detriment of the US tax payer if included in their annual military aid package, so cost might not be the most pressing concern. Also the S-70b is more than twice the size of the Z-9 so the cost higher cost is justified.

(updated to include a more accurate Z-9 cost, previous stated cost was 4.5m USD)

Z-9 cost information from CHINA’S ULTRAMODERN AND FRESHLY INDUCTED 95 METRE 1,440 TON TYPE 056 CORVETTE AND HARBIN Z-9 HELICOPTER PAIRING RE-EXAMINED ; WORKABLE TEMPLATE FOR NIGERIA’S INCOMING 1800 TON P18N STEALTH OPVs | Beegeagle's Blog

I believe Pakistan showed the interest for any EDA SH-60 sea hawks, but nothing materialised. But yes, if we go with S-70 or Sea Hawks, (new ones) then capital cost might be high, but hey, they will serve for another 30 years.

Type 21 Amazons are going to be retired, so i am assuming any new choppers would need to be compatible with the newer ships.

If Pakistan does go with the OHPs and get's them upgraded, then S70 or SH60 make sense.
If Chinese ships, then the chopper will most likely be Chinese as well.

Pakistan Navy bought Westland Sea King helicopters in mid 70s for ASW and SAR roles. These helis are getting close to their retirement age. Discuss in this thread the potential candidates for replacing these old workhorses.

View attachment 147250


@Rashid Mahmood @Neptune @Penguin @SvenSvensonov and others.

Weren't these extensively upgraded recently?

 

[Kompromat]

S-70b per unit cost is about 30m USD (28.5m). So much more expensive than the Z-9, which from what I could gather has a per unit cost of 11m USD (accurate estimations of the Z-9 are hard to find), but Pakistan could write of the expense at the detriment of the US tax payer if included in their annual military aid package, so cost might not be the most pressing concern. Also the S-70b is more than twice the size of the Z-9 so the cost higher cost is justified.

(updated to include a more accurate Z-9 cost, previous stated cost was 4.5m USD)

Z-9 cost information from CHINA’S ULTRAMODERN AND FRESHLY INDUCTED 95 METRE 1,440 TON TYPE 056 CORVETTE AND HARBIN Z-9 HELICOPTER PAIRING RE-EXAMINED ; WORKABLE TEMPLATE FOR NIGERIA’S INCOMING 1800 TON P18N STEALTH OPVs | Beegeagle's Blog

I think this is a good option, especially IF those 3 OHPs are released to Pakistan Navy.

 

[Penguin]

CH-148/MH-92. the Sikorsky S-92 is a derivative of the S-70 family. The S-70's low-height cabin, inherited from the military Black Hawk, was a major drawback for potential civil customers, so the new design combined the proven transmission, rotor system and power train from various military S-70 sub-types with an all new fuselage.The rotor head is derived from that fitted to the UH-60L, while the transmission system is the 2500kW unit from the SH-60B.+
S-92____

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

CH-148/MH-92. the Sikorsky S-92 is a derivative of the S-70 family. The S-70's low-height cabin, inherited from the military Black Hawk, was a major drawback for potential civil customers, so the new design combined the proven transmission, rotor system and power train from various military S-70 sub-types with an all new fuselage.The rotor head is derived from that fitted to the UH-60L, while the transmission system is the 2500kW unit from the SH-60B.+
S-92____

View attachment 147299

Thts a beauty...