Religion vs. Reason

[Naofumi]

And I am questioning the very basis of what we call money in society like India.

So, what you want? Barter system?

 

[steelTalons]

Ahhh A Physicist that talks about everything but Physics if this is the best our society has Produced then i fear that young minds like Saboor Ahmad, Abdullah Anduluz , Hamze Tzortiz , Muhammad Hijab will eat him alive , chew and threw him in the trash ..

The current plight of Muslims makes perfect sense when u see baboons like mo hijab and co., and fraudsters like hamza tzortiz as the face of Islamic intellect.
P.S i have seen a debate(couldnt watch for more than 20 minutes btw) between Hamza Tzortiz and Prof. Lawrence Krauss."Ate him alive , chewed and threw him in the trash" would accurately describe it, although Mr. Tzortiz was on on the menu instead.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The current plight of Muslims makes perfect sense when u see baboons like muhammad hijab and co., and fraudsters like hamza tzortiz as the face of Islamic intellect.
P.S i have seen a debate(couldnt watch for more than 20 minutes btw) between Hamza Tzortiz and Prof. Lawrence Krauss."Ate him alive , chewed and threw him in the trash" would accurately describe it, although Mr. Tzortiz was on on the menu instead.

That debate was in English and it was a intellectual debate which i doubt you understand, as for Muhammad Hijab and calling him a baboon, this shows that either you are Khatmal whom he often destroy or someone who disguised himself as a Muslim .. oh and by the way according to Prof Lawrance in that same debate he has no problem with Incest, hahah I am sure you'll like that

 

[Naofumi]

The current plight of Muslims makes perfect sense when u see baboons like muhammad hijab and co., and fraudsters like hamza tzortiz as the face of Islamic intellect.
P.S i have seen a debate(couldnt watch for more than 20 minutes btw) between Hamza Tzortiz and Prof. Lawrence Krauss."Ate him alive , chewed and threw him in the trash" would accurately describe it, although Mr. Tzortiz was on on the menu instead.

 

[jamahir]

@Naofumi, will repost.

Wait.

 

[Naofumi]

That debate was in English and it was a intellectual debate which i doubt you understand, as for Muhammad Hijab and calling him a baboon, this shows that either you are Khatmal whom he often destroy or someone who disguised himself as a Muslim .. oh and by the way according to Prof Lawrance in that same debate he has no problem with Incest, hahah I am sure you'll like that

Tzrotris is a mindless copy-paste machine copying mostly William Lane Craig's redundant arguments, even he admitted his this behaviour and retraced his "miracle" articles.

During our impromptu conversation with Professor Myers we ended up talking about God’s existence and the Divine nature of the Qur’ān. The topic of embryology came up, and Professor Myers being an expert in the field challenged our narrative. He claimed that the Qur’ān did not predate modern scientific conclusions in the field. As a result of posting the video[8] of the engagement on-line we faced a huge intellectual backlash. We received innumerable amounts of emails by Muslims and non-Muslims. The Muslims were confused and had doubts, and the non-Muslims were bemused with the whole approach.

https://www.hamzatzortzis.com/does-the-quran-contain-scientific-miracles-a-new-approach/
Not to mention his hilarious intellectual takes :
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com...is-data-was-found-in-the-ashley-madison-hack/

 

[steelTalons]

That debate was in English and it was a intellectual debate which i doubt you understand, as for Muhammad Hijab and calling him a baboon, this shows that either you are Khatmal whom he often destroy or someone who disguised himself as a Muslim .. oh and by the way according to Prof Lawrance in that same debate he has no problem with Incest, hahah I am sure you'll like that

How quickly you hide behind the skirts of ad hominem really shows your intellect as well. But hey, enjoy your delusions of self grandeur! I'm not interested in killing your buzz.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Tzrotris is a mindless copy-paste machine copying mostly William Lane Craig's redundant arguments, even he admitted his this behaviour and retraced his "miracle" articles.

And Willian Craig Kalam Cosmological Argument is a copy paste Imam Ghazali , and your point is ?

 

[jamahir]

So, what you want? Barter system?

Not entirely money-less but all basic needs ( housing, water, basic food, essential clothes, electricity, healthcare, communication, mass-public transport, legal service which will be rare anyway in such a system, etc ) being for free and the remaining things ( non-basic food, clothing accessories, hair styling, gym membership, transportation by taxi, the visit to the restaurant or tea-house, permission for house party, etc ) being a paid-for thing via an evolved money system like the "Social Credits" system being implemented in China.

Let's assume that the Social Credits for each person will be 20 at the start of every month. He will be able to obtain a few services with these Credits. He will need to do his designated regular job and any possible extra community service to increase the credits by say 5. Not doing certain things will decrease his Credits. Doing an anti-social thing will get him punished by jail or non-Credit community service depending on the severity. The Credits do not add to the next month's Credits and make the person a "richer" man. They start fresh from 20.

This way there is no economic disparity, all get the basic necessities without suffering and anybody say with a penchant for stylish lifestyle and personal grooming will have to contribute harder to the community.

 

[Naofumi]

And Willian Craig Kalam Cosmological Argument is a copy paste Imam Ghazali , and your point is ?

See the above video I posted, he copies LINE BY LINE that too in MULTIPLE ARTICLES. Wtf, even 3rd grade students of 3rd grade universities do better.

Not entirely money-less but all basic needs ( housing, water, basic food, essential clothes, electricity, healthcare, communication, mass-public transport, legal service which will be rare anyway in such a system, etc ) being for free and the remaining things ( non-basic food, clothing accessories, hair styling, gym membership, transportation by taxi, the visit to the restaurant or tea-house, permission for house party, etc ) being a paid-for thing via an evolved money system like the "Social Credits" system being implemented in China.

Let's assume that the Social Credits for each person will be 20 at the start of every month. He will be able to obtain a few services with these Credits. He will need to do his designated regular job and any possible extra community service to increase the credits by say 5. Not doing certain things will decrease his Credits. Doing an anti-social thing will get him punished by jail or non-Credit community service depending on the severity. The Credits do not add to the next month's Credits and make the person a "richer" man. They start fresh from 20.

This way there is no economic disparity, all get the basic necessities without suffering and anybody say with a penchant for stylish lifestyle and personal grooming will have to contribute harder to the community.

1. This is not implementable, even China is running it as a small social experiment.
2. It is stupid and will not work unless all of the world become communists otherwise being extremely isolationist states.
3. I personally don't support this infringement of individual freedom.
4. It will stifle growth and become authoritarian in no time.
5. Have you watched Psycho Pass?

 

[GumNaam]

I am no fan of hoodboye but one cannot turn a blind eye to the disastrous influence of corrupt, paid mullahs & royalty on Islam.

Islam is a prestine & a logical religion but admittedly, history dictates that it was indeed hijacked by mullahs & royalty...if a king wanted to push his belief, he'd have a paid mullah cook up a fake "hadith". if someone disputed that "hadith" based on the Quran & common sense, the king would have a paid mullah cook up ANOTHER "hadith" stating that Quran cannot be understood without "hadith" followed by another "hadith" that common sense is a major sin. there is a reason why great researchers like Imam Bukhari died alone & penniless for daring to dispute and scrutinize the millions of ahadith floating around and classifying them. Imam Bukhari specifically was punished & persecuted for his work to the extent that in his last days, he wasn't even allowed in bazars to buy food and clothes with the threat of death if he entered. He should be considered as a shaheed perhaps, he risked his life & family's well being just to expose the fakery floating around in the name "ahadith & cleanse the religion from the falsehoods that had creeped in.

 

[jamahir]

This is not implementable, even China is running it as a small social experiment.

But China has kept on developing it. From this Wikipedia page :

As of June 2019, according to the National Development and Reform Commission of China, 26.82 million air tickets as well as 5.96 million high-speed rail tickets have been denied to people who were deemed "untrustworthy (失信)" (on a blacklist), and 4.37 million "untrustworthy" people have chosen to fulfill their duties required by the law

From the same paragraph :

In general, it takes 2–5 years to be removed from the blacklist, but early removal is also possible if the blacklisted person has done enough remedies.

My proposal will not cause such a long trouble to a person.

And this :

Certain personal information of the blacklisted people is deliberately made accessible to the society and is displayed online as well as at various public venues such as movie theaters and buses, while some cities have also banned children of "untrustworthy" residents from attending private schools and even universities.

Nor do I propose such naming and shaming.

It is stupid and will not work unless all of the world become communists otherwise being extremely isolationist states.

1. There already are economic unions such as the EU, ALBA and CIS. My proposal is just an advancement on these.

2. An individual country can adopt it while at the same time work with the accepted international trading currency, the American Dollar, because the country's means of production will have been nationalized and the goods and services will be exported by the system and not by individual private businesses.

I personally don't support this infringement of individual freedom.

Where do I propose such a thing ? If a man is being a playboy, that's no business of the committee that handles the Social Credits.

 

[Naofumi]

But China has kept on developing it. From this Wikipedia page :



From the same paragraph :

My proposal will not cause such a long trouble to a person.

And this :

Nor do I propose such naming and shaming.



1. There already are economic unions such as the EU, ALBA and CIS. My proposal is just an advancement on these.

2. An individual country can adopt it while at the same time work with the accepted international trading currency, the American Dollar, because the country's means of production will have been nationalized and the goods and services will be exported by the system and not by individual private businesses.



Where do I propose such a thing ? If a man is being a playboy, that's no business of the committee that handles the Social Credits.

Dude, we have an ideological difference here, suppose one studies hard and becomes a Doctor and one who did awargi all his teenage, why should both get the same thing in the end? Do you think people will become Doctors or do other difficult things in their life when there's no reward for that? Thus it stifles growth (unless ruthless dictators force people to do those thing) and always lead to alternative routes for people who want extra things - black markets and second economies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_economy_of_the_Soviet_Union
Btw, have to watched Psycho Pass? It's a show similar to your "utopian thinking" but it describes it as a dystopia...

@jamahir On the previous discussion on interest, you can read about it on Wiki if you want.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest#Theories_of_interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_Theory_of_Employment,_Interest_and_Money#interestliquidity

 

[jamahir]

Dude, we have an ideological difference here, suppose one studies hard and becomes a Doctor and one who did awargi all his teenage, why should both get the same thing in the end? Do you think people will become Doctors or do other difficult things in their life when there's no reward for that? Thus it stifles growth (unless ruthless dictators force people to do those thing) and always lead to alternative routes for people who want extra things - black markets and second economies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Era_of_Stagnation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_economy_of_the_Soviet_Union

Will reply to this tomorrow. Am logging off now.

Btw, have to watched Psycho Pass? It's a show similar to your "utopian thinking" but it describes it as a dystopia...

Its Wikipedia entry shows it to be an interesting story.

@jamahir On the previous discussion on interest, you can read about it on Wiki if you want.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest#Theories_of_interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_Theory_of_Employment,_Interest_and_Money#interestliquidity

I will glance through them at a later point.

 

[Naofumi]

Its Wikipedia entry shows it to be an interesting story.

Watch it, it's fantastic and thought provoking about moral dilemmas with strong character development. Moreover, it exactly showed your ideas in practice, watch and come back to me to tell what went wrong in the show that it became a dystopia instead of utopia.