RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN is he that bad?

[Ahiska]

When was the last time an Ottoman sultan was called a khan because when they didnt used that title it became clear that they forgot that they were turks.

 

[atatwolf]

Even byztine emperor died with honor fighting between the walls. The Ottoman Sultan gave up/surrendered to save a nice position under british rule. When plans failed he escaped wih British war ship. I hope the same destiny for Erdogan.

 

[olcayto]

When was the last time an Ottoman sultan was called a khan because when they didnt used that title it became clear that they forgot that they were turks.

Abdul hamid the second was called khan.

 

[LegionnairE]

When was the last time an Ottoman sultan was called a khan because when they didnt used that title it became clear that they forgot that they were turks.

Not sure, they used a lot of titles, a lot of azz kissing and pampering was going on. An Ottoman ruler would be called Shah, Khan, Sultan, etc. -Oh let's not forget the caliph - But if yeou ask me when they forgot they were Turks, it's when they left Anatolia and started living in fancy palaces instead of yurts. As the palace got bigger and pompous, corruption have rised. You can see the difference.

Dolmabahçe was so fvcking pompous that even Topkapı would look humble compared to it. Even though the dynasty that lived in Dolmabahçe was much poorer than the one that lived in Topkapı. they spent like gods on the earth, they drunk themselves to the oblivion and got laid with their wide selection of wives. Young crown princes stopped ruling cities instead they got "educated" in the palace. Selim the II was the start of this trend, even though I think it was coming.

Everything got fvcked up. But if you ask an average Turk today he'd say Ottoman Sultans were great examples of Islam Economy is developing again and the social-cultural state is getting fvcked all over

 

[A1Kaid]

Even byztine emperor died with honor fighting between the walls. The Ottoman Sultan gave up/surrendered to save a nice position under british rule. When plans failed he escaped wih British war ship. I hope the same destiny for Erdogan.

Mehmed VI tried to salvage part of Anatolia in his view he was being pragmatic. The idea was at least Ottomans would still hold Ankara and central Anatolia and years later may work to get rest of Anatolia back after the Empire recovers.

Though joining WWI was a big mistake by Enver Pasha although I do understand his reason and logic but they didn't have the military means to fight with western armies.

 

[olcayto]

Not sure, they used a lot of titles, a lot of azz kissing and pampering was going on. An Ottoman ruler would be called Shah, Khan, Sultan, etc. But if yeou ask me when they forgot they were Turks, it's when they left Anatolia and started living in fancy palaces instead of yurts. As the palace got bigger and pompous, corruption have rised. You can see the difference between Dolmabahçe was so fvcking pompous that even Topkapı would look humble compared to it. Even though the dynasty that lived in Dolmabahçe was much poorer than the one that lived in Topkapı.

You can't expect a head of a empire to reside in tents right? You have to impres foreign nations.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Atawolf is like Kamer Genç inappropriately sympathetic basterd

Dunno but gülen but IS was always an azz kisser of Erdo -his highness-
It's a joke right? mere existence of Devşirme Ocağı is enough to prove you wrong.

You can't build an empire without an Imperial mindset. If you said "Ottomans weren't colonialists" perhaps I could agree.

They used arabic script and farsi language instead of enforcing or at least promoting Turkish. Which was idiotic not "tolerant"

Imperialist in the sense that culture and religion being forced on the common people. Colonialism might work better, but I should've just left it at totalitarian.

Go and ask Balkanites if they think Ottomans were imperialist or not. They will jump at your throat, little gullenist punk. Go and ask if they think Ottomans were peaceful and not massacrers. One tip: don't ask, if you don't want to be beaten.

Insults? It just shows your level.
I actually know people from the various Balkan country's, and I know how they think about Ottoman's. And no, they didn't jump at my throat.

 

[revojam]

On this topic i agree with everything @atatwolf said also let me add an interesting fact for sake of this discussion :

Lets assume on my left hand Albanians sitting on while on right hand Greeks ,Serbians , Armenians , Bulgarians , Syriacs and countless other orthodox christian folks , now who will tell me the difference between those guys?

 

[ELTurco]

Not only that, the Christians would have commited genocide on Turks as payback. As I said it was a great mistake of Ottomans to treat Christians as second class, they should have either converted them or leave them alone.

When Greeks invaded Turkey, Brits gave order to Greeks to massacre Turks to create greater-Greece and said the same to Armenians to create greater Armenia. We wouldn't be Iraq, we would be Palestine/Gaza.

All these Gulenist kids who never picked up a book, wouldn't be able to brag about the Ottoman empire because some Christian would be on the belly of his mother. I really get upset about this. I'm sorry. AKP wants to reintroduce Ottoman policy and mindset. This will be the beginning of the end for the last safe-hold for Turks.

What I'm trying to say: Ottomans shouldn't be only remembered for its glory but also its mistakes. Don't forget that the Ottomans sit on the table with Europeans to divide Turkey, just so he could stay in power.

Bro, Greeks, Armenians, Jews and Arabs were valued and admired but the Turks were treated as a second class citizen well they wasnt considered as citizen we were the Kul.

They always were fearing and mistrusting the Turks thats one of the reason why most Elite soldiers the jannisarry corps were made out off Serbians, Bosnians and other slavs..

Whenever i drive through Anatolia all the way from Edirne until Kayseri-Adana-Mersin i'll understand that they did not give a single .... About anatolian Turks because there is simply nothing but dust and dessert no buildings no wealth nothings just empty lands, the people the places nothing new no changes believe me same story those people have always suffered nobody gives a damn about them!!

My point is quite telling us romantic stories about how wonderfull everything is, pocketfillers and liers don't care about anybody but themselves.

 

[-SINAN-]

Mehmed VI tried to salvage part of Anatolia in his view he was being pragmatic. The idea was at least Ottomans would still hold Ankara and central Anatolia and years later may work to get rest of Anatolia back after the Empire recovers.

Though joining WWI was a big mistake by Enver Pasha although I do understand his reason and logic but they didn't have the military means to fight with western armies.

A little irrelevant but did you know that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was the sole Turkish commander without a defeat in WWI. He has awarded by 17 medals for his achivements in WW1 (in total 24 medals).

 

[olcayto]

@revojam

I don't understand your question.

Bro, Greeks, Armenians, Jews and Arabs were valued and admired but the Turks were treated as a second class citizen well they wasnt considered as citizen we were the Kul.

They always were fearing and mistrusting the Turks thats one of the reason why most Elite soldiers the jannisarry corps were made out off Serbians, Bosnians and other slavs..

Whenever i drive through Anatolia all the way from Edirne until Kayseri-Adana-Mersin i'll understand that they did not give a single .... About anatolian Turks because there is simply nothing but dust and dessert no buildings no wealth nothings just empty lands, the people the places nothing new no changes believe me same story those people have always suffered nobody gives a damn about them!!

My point is quite telling us romantic stories about how wonderfull everything is, pocketfillers and liers don't care about anybody but themselves.

While your at it. Why don't you tell more about the other elite corps of the ottoman empire. And from what they existee out.

 

[A1Kaid]

A little irrelevant but did you know that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was the sole Turkish commander without a defeat in WWI. He has awarded by 17 medals for his achivements in WW1 (in total 24 medals).

That's not true Mustafa Kemal and his troops did lose at least 1 major battle in Battle of Megiddo, although conditions for victory were very slim to begin with doesn't matter how good of a military commander you are Ottomans were outmatched in every criteria in that battle and suffered heavy losses.



See post # 8

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...rk-greatest-muslim-general-20th-centuary.html


So yes I know he is very victorious and one of the best Turkish commanders in WWI.

 

[Ahiska]

Even their language ottoman "Turkish" wasnt even real Turkish it was mostly Arabic and Persisan and something like that said he was the leader of all turks....
When i would hav been a khan in khazakstan i would have laaughed to death if an ottoman sultan would hav said something like that.

 

[ELTurco]

@revojam

I don't understand your question.




While your at it. Why don't you tell more about the other elite corps of the ottoman empire. And from what they existee out.

Well, ofcourse you got the Akincilar, Basibozuks etc those are masses of troops the Sultan cant win wars without them.

Now you tell me why were his personal bodyguards considered the Sultans most important troops the Jannisaries especially made out of non-Turkics?

 

[LegionnairE]

While your at it. Why don't you tell more about the other elite corps of the ottoman empire. And from what they existee out.

In Ottoman Empire there were two elite forces. Sipahis were made up of Turks which were stationed closest to the enemy. Janissaries made up from devşirmes(christian boys who got systematically taken from their family and converted) they were always closest to the sultan. You can say that they were afraid of Turks so that they stayed at a distance.