Rampant Hate Speech Against Bangladesh & It's People In This Subsection : My Two Cents

[Nilgiri]

From 1947-1958
Pakistan had 3 Bengali Prime Ministers (combined tenure > 5 years)
and 2 Punjabi Prime Ministers (tenure < 2 years)

From 1948-1958
Pakistan had 2 Bengali Governor Generals (> 6 years)
and 1 Punjabi (of Pasthun descent) Governor General (tenure > 3 years)

From 1958-1971
Pakistan was ruled by Pashtun dictators

From 1947-1971
Pakistan had 5 Army chiefs, none of them Punjabi

From 1947-1971
Bengalis had 42% quota in civil services, Punjabis 24%


Punjabis were not oppressors back then,
Punjabis are not oppressors now

Large scale identity politics is wrong no matter the time and place.

People should be concise in their criticism of a group (say military establishment/politicians) by virtue of what that group elected to be by choices and decisions....rather than simply what identity they got assigned intrinsically from being born (and likewise had no control over).

World would be far better place if more people held this common sense logic....but we know people are far from ideal generally for such notion of logical consistency.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Like the name suggests, operation was against anti state elements. Instead of doing some house cleaning, Bengali majority fell into the propaganda Of traitors.

Indiscriminate killings will not help gain people’s confidence. Certainly not when multiple military actions prior had many innocents killed.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

This post is a beautiful masterpiece painted with colours of raw pain.

My grandfather was an activist of the Pakistan movement during Partition in the 1940s.He was a Muslim who believed in the idea of a homeland of Muslims where his family could live without fear & with their dignity intact.But even he was a victim of PA torture in 71.My father who was just a little boy barely 10 years old in 71 was shot at multiple times by Pakistani soldiers as he ran with his younger brother in his arms.My grandfather afterwards joined the freedom fighters and fought against the army of the very country he struggled for just 3 decades ago.I'm sure Pakistani posters here will consider him a terrorist.But to me, to the people of Bangladesh, he was just a common man who was betrayed by the rulers of the then Pakistan & instead of bowing down & taking it, fought back.Today, very easily a keyboard warrior in an anonymous Internet forum sitting in front of a computer can call him a traitor, gaddar, hindu agent.But I know what he did is right.It's the duty of a Muslim to fight back against injustice anywhere & everywhere.

But I hold no animosity towards Pakistan today.Whatever happened, already happened. Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala & our Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) have instructed us about reconciliation between believers. And I hold their words above our bitter past.So, today I have only love for Pakistan as brotherly Muslim country, as I have for every other Muslim country.I consider Pakistanis my brothers just as I consider a Somalian, Uyghur, Syrian or a Kashmiri my brother.
Whether they think of me as a traitor or something else, that's their wish.

Brother, I understand your feelings of betrayal & pain.Your words about the sufferings in KPK, Balochistan makes my blood boil.Has the rulers of Pakistan learned nothing? This barbarism & frankly cruel & stupid policies of treating their own people like garbage need to change.I pray to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala that He eases your sufferings and punishes those who are responsible.

Maybe you're right that nothing will change & we'll keep on bickering & fighting.

But we'll also have to keep on extending the olive branch to the other side.Because we're Muslims & at the end of the day, we're brothers who need to stick together.

Maybe we'll not see any positive change happening today or tomorrow or even in our lifetime. But we'll have to keep trying.And one day, InshaAllah it'll happen.


In that case, I'm glad to be a fool as I'm sure any true Muslim will also be.Allah willing, we'll remain fools like this in the future as well.

Again, sorry to disappoint you as you seem to have a thinly veiled agenda ("I want Pakistanis and Bangladeshis to be ummah buddies but Pakistanis are stopping that from happening..."). In the real world, there really isn't a problem between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Throughout my whole life and any interactions I have come to be part of or know of, our groups in the UK have gotten along very well without any ill will or even discussion over 1971. It's worth remembering that many Pakistanis have known first hand of mukthi bahini atrocities against civilians in East Pakistan during the 1971 war, so it's not a one way street by any means.

Now regarding this thread, some trolls will always exist no matter what you say or do so I remain a little unclear as to the point of this thread. Just highlighting certain trolls requires a simple message to the mods. If you're suggesting there is some institutionalised problem from Pakistanis towards Bangladeshis, I would say you're mistaken and reality does not reflect this.

 

[Avicenna]

I said it many times that this sub-forum is being used as a tool / vehicle to cleverly stir separatism in Pakistan. They try to imply that Punjabis are the prime villain who oppress other ethnic groups in Pakistan and their separatism originates from legitimate grievances. Very smart move indeed.

Just curious.....by who?

 

[Old School]

Just curious.....by who?

Does Pakistan have enemies ? Or Pakistan has no enemy ? Or it is just a conspiracy theory as the disciples of Chanakya will always argue ? Chanakyas must not be given a single chance to be heard at the first place. They must be smashed at sight. These are more toxic than rattle snakes which will bite you at any given opportunity.
Listen, the Chanakyas will beat you left and right but they will never allow you to cry. It is all conspiracy theory as they always argue.

Again, sorry to disappoint you as you seem to have a thinly veiled agenda ("I want Pakistanis and Bangladeshis to be ummah buddies but Pakistanis are stopping that from happening..."). In the real world, there really isn't a problem between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Throughout my whole life and any interactions I have come to be part of or know of, our groups in the UK have gotten along very well without any ill will or even discussion over 1971. It's worth remembering that many Pakistanis have known first hand of mukthi bahini atrocities against civilians in East Pakistan during the 1971 war, so it's not a one way street by any means.

Now regarding this thread, some trolls will always exist no matter what you say or do so I remain a little unclear as to the point of this thread. Just highlighting certain trolls requires a simple message to the mods. If you're suggesting there is some institutionalised problem from Pakistanis towards Bangladeshis, I would say you're mistaken and reality does not reflect this.

This thread will actually open a can of worms. We all know that vast majority of Pakistanis still have a brotherly view of the Bengalis except few xenophobics ( well known) who even can not tolerate a Punjabi or Sindhi.
However, if one comes to a Pakistani defense forum to chest thump about having benefits/ superseding effect of separating from Pakistan and encourage other to do the same, there will be some unwelcome reactions. Please also show me examples where a BD OPERATED FORUM allowing Pakistanis to even question some of the anti-Pakistani propaganda which are officially promoted by BD government.

 

[VikingRaider]

Please also show me examples where a BD OPERATED FORUM allowing Pakistanis to even question some of the anti-Pakistani propaganda which are officially promoted by BD government.

The problem is almost all Bangladeshi forums and blogs are run by fifth columnist aka chetona cult who are not main stream Bangladeshi . Most Bangladeshi people dislike them . . This forum is run by patriot Pakistanis I believe , and most Bangladeshi forums or blogs are operated by traitors to Bangladesh . I used to roam from blog to blogs long ago and later stopped visiting them for the same reason . So So perhaps the comparison is not correct

 

[Avicenna]

Does Pakistan have enemies ? Or Pakistan has no enemy ? Or it is just a conspiracy theory as the disciples of Chanakya will always argue ? Chanakyas must not be given a single chance to be heard at the first place. They must be smashed at sight. These are more toxic than rattle snakes which will bite you at any given opportunity.
Listen, the Chanakyas will beat you left and right but they will never allow you to cry. It is all conspiracy theory as they always argue.



This thread will actually open a can of worms. We all know that vast majority of Pakistanis still have a brotherly view of the Bengalis except few xenophobics ( well known) who even can not tolerate a Punjabi or Sindhi.
However, if one comes to a Pakistani defense forum to chest thump about having benefits/ superseding effect of separating from Pakistan and encourage other to do the same, there will be some unwelcome reactions. Please also show me examples where a BD OPERATED FORUM allowing Pakistanis to even question some of the anti-Pakistani propaganda which are officially promoted by BD government.

Agree somewhat.

The people on PDF are an interesting mix.

I have no doubt what you posted is true.

As for BD forums, honestly, PDF is far better in many ways.

Which is why we are all here.

 

[Old School]

The problem is almost all Bangladeshi forums and blogs are run by fifth columnist aka chetona cult who are not main stream Bangladeshi . Most Bangladeshi people dislike them . . This forum is run by patriot Pakistanis I believe , and most Bangladeshi forums or blogs are operated by traitors to Bangladesh . I used to roam from blog to blogs long ago and later stopped visiting them for the same reason . So So perhaps the comparison is not correct

I would like to accept your version without any problem but how many of your fellow members share the same opinion as you do ?

 

[VikingRaider]

I would like to accept your version without any problem but how many of your fellow members share the same opinion as you do ?

I don't know , as I only can speak for myself . BTW I was not talking about any defence blog , I was talking about other blogs ( that were actually community type ) . I am not familier with defence related blogs or forums of Bangladesh , other than few FB pages and youtube channels .

 

[Old School]

I don't know , as I only can speak for myself . BTW I was not talking about any defence blog , I was talking about other blogs ( that were actually community type ) . I am not familier with defence related blogs or forums of Bangladesh , other than few FB pages and youtube channels .

You will find that here we don't even spare PM Imran Khan or any other Pakistani from critics. Why do you think that Hasina or BD government will be spared if there are some legitimate concerns?
No one is above criticism and specifically, if something is at odd with Pakistani interests. However, if you consider criticisms of Hasina, BAL or BDG as a hate speech on Bangladeshis, that is a true Chankya/ Fascist tactic. Or even worse , promoting separatism within Pakistan. This is not going to work as PDF moderators are not blind and they have responsibilities of protecting Pakistani interests despite having various political views.

 

[Avicenna]

You will find that here we don't even spare PM Imran Khan or any other Pakistani from critics. Why do you think that Hasina or BD government will be spared if there are some legitimate concerns?
No one is above criticism and specifically, if something is at odd with Pakistani interests. However, if you consider criticisms of Hasina, BAL or BDG as a hate speech on Bangladeshis, that is a true Chankya/ Fascist tactic. Or even worse , promoting separatism within Pakistan. This is not going to work as PDF moderators are not blind and they have responsibilities of protecting Pakistani interests despite having various political views.

I think the vast majority of BD origin folks here are just normal people with their opinions. (i.e. no political agenda per se)

There are a few posters with clear agendas but interestingly those individuals get called out by the majority.

As for the others (non-BD flagged), well keep reading and make your own observations.

 

[Old School]

I think the vast majority of BD origin folks here are just normal people with their opinions. (i.e. no political agenda per se)

There are a few posters with clear agendas but interestingly those individuals get called out by the majority.

As for the others (non-BD flagged), well keep reading and make your own observations.

I am with PDF for more than 10 years and I have seen how many BD dissidents were subjected to gang attacks by pro BAL members here in the name of extremism . As far as Non BD flaggers, my eyes can see further than it appears. They do the same in Facebook by mass reporting in order to silence BD critics. Of course, with assistance from Indian Facebook moderators. I hope that you now it.

 

[Sehnsucht]

From 1947-1958
Pakistan had 3 Bengali Prime Ministers (combined tenure > 5 years)
and 2 Punjabi Prime Ministers (tenure < 2 years)

From 1948-1958
Pakistan had 2 Bengali Governor Generals (> 6 years)
and 1 Punjabi (of Pasthun descent) Governor General (tenure > 3 years)

From 1958-1971
Pakistan was ruled by Pashtun dictators

From 1947-1971
Pakistan had 5 Army chiefs, none of them Punjabi

From 1947-1971
Bengalis had 42% quota in civil services, Punjabis 24%


Punjabis were not oppressors back then,
Punjabis are not oppressors now

I frankly have no interest in bringing up our past.I only told my story.That's one side of the history.As I'm sure you or any other Pakistani member have another side.I only told my part because the things @fisher1 told me about, resemble the things that happened in 71 to Bangladeshis & I'm frankly disappointed that Pakistani establishment hasn't learned from it's past.Now, we can say that it was war.Atrocities were committed by both sides.And I agree.But the people who suffered, they might have different views.They'd blame the one's in whose hand they suffered.Just as a Pakistani who lost his family member to Mukti Bahini would always blame the Bangladeshis.And a Bangladeshi who lost his family member to PA would always blame Pakistanis.
Hence, @fisher1's misgivings.And I sympathize with him because my family members has once suffered like he/his people did.Now I don't follow Pakistani politics much so I don't know why it happened to them.

As some of you seem intent on trying to prove that I have some agenda to demonize Pakistanis here with this thread,I'd ask you to show me once where I have called Punjabis oppressors.Or even blamed the people of West Pakistan.Goes for you too @masterchief_mirza
In fact, I have always maintained that the blame went to the then government of United Pakistan.Not it's people.
Now we can start a debate on whether the government of Pakistan is at blame or not, but that's pointless imo & waste of energy.I want to leave our past behind & work together for the sake of the future of both of our countries.Not stay up nights debating whatever our forefathers did.

Again, sorry to disappoint you as you seem to have a thinly veiled agenda ("I want Pakistanis and Bangladeshis to be ummah buddies but Pakistanis are stopping that from happening..."). In the real world, there really isn't a problem between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Throughout my whole life and any interactions I have come to be part of or know of, our groups in the UK have gotten along very well without any ill will or even discussion over 1971. It's worth remembering that many Pakistanis have known first hand of mukthi bahini atrocities against civilians in East Pakistan during the 1971 war, so it's not a one way street by any means.

The point of this thread was to stop the fighting between Pakistani & Bangladeshi posters.Which happens regularly in the forum.
If your'e trying to find any of this "thinly veiled agenda" here, then I'm afraid you're gonna be sorely disappointed.

I agree that it wasn't a one way street.Atrocities were committed by both sides.That's why I have maintained that we need to move on & leave our past behind.
Or we can keep digging up dirt of which both sides have plenty.

 

[Avicenna]

I frankly have no interest in bringing up our past.I only told my story.That's one side of the history.As I'm sure you or any other Pakistani member have another side.I only told my part because the things @fisher1 told me about, resemble the things that happened in 71 to Bangladeshis & I'm frankly disappointed that Pakistani establishment hasn't learned from it's past.Now, we can say that it was war.Atrocities were committed by both sides.And I agree.But the people who suffered, they might have different views.They'd blame the one's in whose hand they suffered.Just as a Pakistani who lost his family member to Mukti Bahini would always blame the Bangladeshis.And a Bangladeshi who lost his family member to PA would always blame Pakistanis.
Hence, @fisher1's misgivings.And I sympathize with him because my family members has once suffered like he/his people did.Now I don't follow Pakistani politics much so I don't know why it happened to them.

As some of you seem intent on trying to prove that I have some agenda to demonize Pakistanis here with this thread,I'd ask you to show me once where I have called Punjabis oppressors.Or even blamed the people of West Pakistan.Goes for you too @masterchief_mirza
In fact, I have always maintained that the blame went to the then government of United Pakistan.Not it's people.
Now we can start a debate on whether the government of Pakistan is at blame or not, but that's pointless imo & waste of energy.I want to leave our past behind & work together for the sake of the future of both of our countries.Not stay up nights debating whatever our forefathers did.


The point of this thread was to stop the fighting between Pakistani & Bangladeshi posters.Which happens regularly in the forum.
If your'e trying to find any of this "thinly veiled agenda" here, then I'm afraid you're gonna be sorely disappointed.

I agree that it wasn't a one way street.Atrocities were committed by both sides.That's why I have maintained that we need to move on & leave our past behind.
Or we can keep digging up dirt of which both sides have plenty.

As I said earlier, I think your efforts in this thread are sincere and you have no other political agenda other than moving past previous grievances between the two parties.

And I agree for the most part with the original post.

But there are some on here with fairly clear efforts to anyone watching.

Anyways, this is PDF at the end of the day.

 

[Sehnsucht]

As I said earlier, I think your efforts in this thread are sincere and you have no other political agenda other than moving past previous grievances between the two parties.

And I agree for the most part with the original post.

But there are some on here with fairly clear efforts to anyone watching.

Anyways, this is PDF at the end of the day.

Thank you.
l wanted to reach out & send a message to the Pakistani posters here that unlike what most of them here seem to think, Bangladeshis don't consider them to be enemies.Islam teaches us that believers are brothers & should be united, and as such we believe them to be our brothers too.
Some of them seem to think I have some hidden agenda.But that's their problem.I have done what I intended to do.However they'll take it, that's up to them & the Almighty.
As you have said, at the end of the day, it's just PDF.There are millions others in real life, other forums & social medias who need to hear this very same message. I'll just continue to try with those people, should my efforts in PDF prove fruitless.