Rail Battle Between China and Japan Rushes At High Speed

[terranMarine]

The cake shared between China and Japan, a very good proposition @Shotgunner51 , countries who are politically hostile to China can give the HSR projects to Japan while we get to eat the other part of the cake.

 

[Shotgunner51]

The cake shared between China and Japan, a very good proposition @Shotgunner51 , countries who are politically hostile to China can give the HSR projects to Japan while we get to eat the other part of the cake.

True bro. China HSR has massive home market (18000 km and keep growing, more than rest-of-the-world combined) to look after, Shinkansen doesn't have this baggage hence allowing them more free hands to build overseas.

Not just HSR, but in fact the global infrastructure market is way bigger than what Japan-China combined can cater for, even if financially-sound Germany is included. Check ADB forecast, AIIB forecast, EBRD, EFSI data, etc, investment gaps are in order of $ trillions, there is no need for the two nations to over-compete. Let's adopt segregation or markets, and collaboration of funding resources. CRC of China should collaborate with Shinkansen, CGN-CNNC should collaborate with Toshiba-Westinghouse, etc.

 

[Martian2]

India is incompatible with China's Belt-and-Road System

China is the $10 trillion economic hub at the center of the Belt-and-Road System.

The New Silk Road includes Chinese High-Speed Rail (HSR) technology being extended into Laos and Thailand. In the future, Chinese HSR will expand into more Asian countries.

Since India is using incompatible Japanese train technology, this means India has just excluded itself from China's New Silk Road.

A Chinese HSR train can run from Harbin in Northeast China through Laos and further south through Thailand. The Chinese HSR network should eventually include Malaysia and Singapore.

The Indians will be stuck with an incompatible Japanese system that isolates them to India only. The Indians cannot travel on the Chinese HSR network.

Think of China's HSR network standards as Microsoft OS.

Japan's bullet train technology is Linux.

Everybody in Asia (including Indonesia) plan to use Chinese HSR technology. Only the Indians want to use Japanese technology/Linux. The Indians will be stuck within their own country.

China's HSR will eventually extend through Central Asia. It will keep branching out in all directions. The Indians will have to stay within their own little patch of Japanese technology.

 

[terranMarine]

India is incompatible with China's Belt-and-Road System

China is the $10 trillion economic hub at the center of the Belt-and-Road System.

The New Silk Road includes Chinese High-Speed Rail (HSR) technology being extended into Laos and Thailand. In the future, Chinese HSR will expand into more Asian countries.

Since India is using incompatible Japanese train technology, this means India has just excluded itself from China's New Silk Road.

A Chinese HSR train can run from Harbin in Northeast China through Laos and further south through Thailand. The Chinese HSR network should eventually include Malaysia and Singapore.

The Indians will be stuck with an incompatible Japanese system that isolates them to India only. The Indians cannot travel on the Chinese HSR network.

Think of China's HSR network standards as Microsoft OS.

Japan's bullet train technology is Linux.

Everybody in Asia (including Indonesia) plan to use Chinese HSR technology. Only the Indians want to use Japanese technology/Linux. The Indians will be stuck within their own country.

China's HSR will eventually extend through Central Asia. It will keep branching out in all directions. The Indians will have to stay within their own little patch of Japanese technology.

But China is the one who is economically hurt since we are an export driven country who needs the mass Indian population.

 

[Martian2]

But China is the one who is economically hurt since we are an export driven country who needs the mass Indian population.

China sells to the world.

Microsoft sells to the world.

The percentage of revenue that China and Microsoft derive from India is trivial. Indians have very little discretionary income.

The average Indian only has an annual per-capita GDP of $1,500. There isn't much left for discretionary spending.
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India is not among China's top ten trading partners. No one cares about India.

If the Indians want to go and build a weird train network that is incompatible with China's HSR system for Asia, let the Indians hobble themselves.

 

[Shotgunner51]

China sells to the world.

Microsoft sells to the world.

The percentage of revenue that China and Microsoft derive from India is trivial. Indians have very little discretionary income.

The average Indian only has an annual per-capita GDP of $1,500. There isn't much left for discretionary spending.
----------

India is not among China's top ten trading partners. No one cares about India.

If the Indians want to go and build a weird train network that is incompatible with China's HSR system for Asia, let the Indians hobble themselves.

Well said bro. Instead of specific countries, the general guideline for Infrastructure exports-investment (HSR, nuclear energy, etc) should be:

• Focus on OBOR, and resources-rich nations.
• Avoid low-income economies, indebted economies, politically hostile nations.

 

[Echo_419]

Do you still even need to ask? Overprice maintenance, high operating cost becos Japanese per wage is one of the highest with no significant increase in quality if compare to a made in China HSR.

I will ask my simple & easy to understand Question once again.Do you have a link for your claims or anything else to counter my claim,that Taiwanese HSR failed due to high interest private financing

True bro. China HSR has massive home market (18000 km and keep growing, more than rest-of-the-world combined) to look after, Shinkansen doesn't have this baggage hence allowing them more free hands to build overseas.

Not just HSR, but in fact the global infrastructure market is way bigger than what Japan-China combined can cater for, even if financially-sound Germany is included. Check ADB forecast, AIIB forecast, EBRD, EFSI data, etc, investment gaps are in order of $ trillions, there is no need for the two nations to over-compete. Let's adopt segregation or markets, and collaboration of funding resources. CRC of China should collaborate with Shinkansen, CGN-CNNC should collaborate with Toshiba-Westinghouse, etc.

Cab you provide me with some source for the 'Chinese speed up campaign' before 2007?

 

[Martian2]

Indonesia is smarter than India. Here's why.

China's HSR technology is the de facto standard in Asia.

Indonesia chose China's HSR technology. This means Indonesia is a licensed user of Chinese HSR. This also means Indonesian maintenance workers will gain valuable experience with Chinese HSR technology.

Over time, Indonesian companies can bid for open contracts to maintain and repair Chinese HSR technology. In the future, Indonesian companies will also compete in the manufacture of parts for Chinese HSR trains.

As a licensed user, Indonesia is qualified to compete in all aspects of Chinese HSR technology.

In contrast, India is only familiar with Japanese train technology.

India is unfamiliar with Chinese HSR technology. India is not a licensed user and is therefore unqualified to compete for Chinese HSR contracts.

It is the billions of Chinese dollars that is financing a growing network of Chinese HSR rail lines throughout Asia. Laos and Thailand are already onboard. Cambodia and Myanmar could be next. Malaysia is also on the list.

Indian politicians never fail to elevate politics over economics. Selecting Japan is an interesting political statement. However, India will be paying the long-term economic effects of its choice for decades to come.

There is no way that China will certify an Indian company as being qualified to work on Chinese HSR technology. Without an official Chinese certification, all Indian companies have been locked out of all Chinese HSR contracts in every country.

 

[Place Of Space]

Not according to them, they think Chinese quality does not even come close. Maybe it's true, it certainly explains why i keep reading news of Chinese HSR constantly having issues or perhaps crashes all the time. Geez the other countries who gave the HSR projects to China sure are stupid don't you think? It's like asking for trouble and India is the only one intelligent enough to go for the best.

Do you remember the Chinese saying: a critical buyer is the real buyer. Their comments of Chinese HSR quality is just a bargaining means, in order to counter the price. Do we ever remarks on British cars so far? Nobody else buy it, so none of buyers comment.

 

[Echo_419]

Indonesia is smarter than India. Here's why.

China's HSR technology is the de facto standard in Asia.

Indonesia chose China's HSR technology. This means Indonesia is a licensed user of Chinese HSR. This also means Indonesian maintenance workers will gain valuable experience with Chinese HSR technology.

Over time, Indonesian companies can bid for open contracts to maintain and repair Chinese HSR technology. In the future, Indonesian companies will also compete in the manufacture of parts for Chinese HSR trains.

As a licensed user, Indonesia is qualified to compete in all aspects of Chinese HSR technology.

In contrast, India is only familiar with Japanese train technology.

India is unfamiliar with Chinese HSR technology. India is not a licensed user and is therefore unqualified to compete for Chinese HSR contracts.

It is the billions of Chinese dollars that is financing a growing network of Chinese HSR rail lines throughout Asia. Laos and Thailand are already onboard. Cambodia and Myanmar could be next. Malaysia is also on the list.

Indian politicians never fail to elevate politics over economics. Selecting Japan is an interesting political statement. However, India will be paying the long-term economic effects of its choice for decades to come.

There is no way that China will certify an Indian company as being qualified to work on Chinese HSR technology. Without an official Chinese certification, all Indian companies have been locked out of all Chinese HSR contracts in every country.

Sure why not

 

[Blue Marlin]

Japanese HSR in Taiwan is a total disaster, who wants a second failure except for the dumb? I can foreseen another disaster is in the coming in India, technologically and financially.

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if therev are a total disaster then what are they doing in china?

 

[Nike]

BTW, Indonesian Jakarta Metro using Japanese tech and partly been financed by Japanese consortium. Open tender is always good when you don't have luxury to built everything on your own

 

[Sanchez]

If a developing country wants to pay as much as double the price to Japanese it's their problem not ours!

 

[Abba_Dabba_Jabba]

According to the agreement India will be buying 30% of the components from Japanese company i.e. mostly the coaches and engines rest all be sourced from other sources. So I think the maintenance cost can be kept low by moving few things to India and Japan mostly wants other nation to partner in their railway, at the moment the best partner will be India.

So India-Japan exporting HSR to other nation competing with Chinese in long term might be a possibility. India's participation could make the system competitive with Chinese in terms of costs.

Japanese component are without any doubt very expensive, but at the same time they are reliable. If India is investing $ 15 bn then it wants a system which is proven and relieable, irrespective of its cost.

I'm doubting Indians' purchasing power.
Their middle class(real middle class) is too small for high-speed rail.
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The HSR will be built between Ahmedabad and Mumbai, this line contains some of very developed cities e.g. Vadodara,Surat, etc. So people in this region can afford if it is kept below the rates of flights which is at the moment (4-5k INR).

If this line is economically not viable on this line then it will fail anywhere in India.

 

[AndrewJin]

if therev are a total disaster then what are they doing in china?

R u dumb or something? Is Chinese railway built by foreigners?