Question: How will AVIC position Hongdu L-15B vs JF-17B?

[CriticalThought]

Hi,

I am interested in which markets each plane is meant to target. How will they avoid competition between brother projects? Any insights are most welcome.

http://quwa.org/2017/05/04/hongdu-a...p-completes-first-l-15b-lead-fighter-trainer/

The Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) has been working to market the L-15 as a dual training and entry-level fighter to the developing world. The L-15 competes for the same markets as the Aero Vodochody L-159 and Yakovlev Yak-130.

@wanglaokan @long_ @Development C&P @beijingwalker @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

I am interested in which markets each plane is meant to target. How will they avoid competition between brother projects? Any insights are most welcome.

@wanglaokan @long_ @Development C&P @beijingwalker

JF17b is more powerful when it comes to range and payload. Not in the same class can't compare.

 

[CriticalThought]

JF17b is more powerful when it comes to range and payload. Not in the same class can't compare.

But as a purely LIFT platform it would compete with L-15B right?

 

[帅的一匹]

JF17 can field air combat while L15b is only providing limited CAS. One is a combat trainer and the other is only a trainer.

But as a purely LIFT platform it would compete with L-15B right?

JF17b give a leg up over L15b. Not in the same class.

 

[CriticalThought]

JF17 can field air combat while L15b is only providing limited CAS. One is a combat trainer and the other is only a trainer.


JF17b give a leg up over L15b. Not in the same class.

So I guess countries who only need a LIFT platform to augment already present fighters/bombers would go for L15-B. Whereas countries who are looking for much more than merely LIFT will go for JF-17B.

 

[帅的一匹]

So I guess countries who only need a LIFT platform to augment already present fighters/bombers would go for L15-B. Whereas countries who are looking for much more than merely LIFT will go for JF-17B.

UAE is now evaluating on L15b.

 

[CriticalThought]

UAE is now evaluating on L15b.

UAE has a respectable airforce already with Mirage 2000-9s etc. It makes sense they need a basic LIFT trainer because they have advanced aircrafts already.

 

[帅的一匹]

So I guess countries who only need a LIFT platform to augment already present fighters/bombers would go for L15-B. Whereas countries who are looking for much more than merely LIFT will go for JF-17B.

There are two types of L15. One is AJT version with a mechanical scan radar with 35 KM range, another is a LIfT version with X band PESA of 75 KM range. The max payload of L15B is 3.5 tons, compared with 4.5 tons of JF17b. While JF17b's mechanical scan radar has 120 KM range. The KLJ7A is only designed for PAF, and I don't think PAF will risk it's security to export it.

If I don't have much to spare, and I want a trainer which can make air combat and naval strike. I will go for Jf17b. If I want to cheap platform to do limited CAS, for exampl, to deal with the terrorist. I will go for L15b.

L15B is more inclined to do advanced training. And JF17b is more like a Mini bomber.

You won't surprise one day China sell L15B to Phillipine .

The reason why BD choosed Yak130 is for its excellent sub sonic performance to run CAS for its ground troops when fighting with Terrorists. When you need to deal with something serious, you need JF17b.

L15B is more like a cheap strike aircraft, and JF17b is a cost effective multi-role aircraft.

 

[Deino]

JF17b is more powerful when it comes to range and payload. Not in the same class can't compare.

Indeed, however they do in fact overlap in certain segments of the export market and as such are can surely be compared...

IMO it is most of all a matter of choice depending on the customer's needs and financial possibilities: If You are looking for a capable high-end trainer with limited secondary multirole capabilities and You decide on the L-15A, then the L-15B is the perfect choice. If You however look for a decent, affordable light-weight multirole fighter, then the JF-17 might be Your choice and to complement the single-seaters with a trainer (LIFT), then the JF-17B is fine.

I think no smaller Air Force can afford both types and even more in the combination of L-15A/B & JF-17A/B.

Just my 2 Cents.

Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

For a Rookies, L15 is more come in handy. For a Veteran, JF17b will do its job.

L15b will be huge headache for Rusky YK130 cause both of them use Al-222-25 engine and have similar performance. China can offer cheaper price and flexible payment to flood the market.

You guys all know China has much better relationship with Ukraine than Russia has. Means if there is competition between L15 and YK130, Ukraine definitely will favor China.

Why UAE consider L15b is because we sure made a better offer than Russia did. A sweet offer.

@CriticalThought brother, you shall change the title to "How HongDu L15b is gonna compete with Russian Yak130 in the international market?" It think Russian's arse is burning now, but sorry, business is business.

If UAE is willing to pay back by gas, I think China doesn't have problem with it.

Several elements need to be thought when you procure a weapon system:
1. Availability during war(maintenance and parts and the platform compensation)
2. Price
3. Quality
4. payment method
5. specification
6. political consideration

China lags behind too much in fighter/trainer/transporter sales, we need to catch up and grab bigger market shares.

By the end of year 2030, I hope China can strive for 15% share in international weapon export market compared with the existing 5%.

L15 can be used to train navy pilots on carrier and JF17b can't.

If china can sell more fighter jets to other countries, sure we can sell more trainer to those countries.

 

[CriticalThought]

For a Rookies, L15 is more come in handy. For a Veteran, JF17b will do its job.

L15b will be huge headache for Rusky YK130 cause both of them use Al-222-25 engine and have similar performance. China can offer cheaper price and flexible payment to flood the market.

You guys all know China has much better relationship with Ukraine than Russia has. Means if there is competition between L15 and YK130, Ukraine definitely will favor China.

Why UAE consider L15b is because we sure made a better offer than Russia did. A sweet offer.

@CriticalThought brother, you shall change the title to "How HongDu L15b is gonna compete with Russian Yak130 in the international market?" It think Russian's arse is burning now, but sorry, business is business.

If UAE is willing to pay back by gas, I think China doesn't have problem with it.

Several elements need to be thought when you procure a weapon system:
1. Availability during war(maintenance and parts and the platform compensation)
2. Price
3. Quality
4. payment method
5. specification
6. political consideration

China lags behind too much in fighter/trainer/transporter sales, we need to catch up and grab bigger market shares.

By the end of year 2030, I hope China can strive for 15% share in international weapon export market compared with the existing 5%.

L15 can be used to train navy pilots on carrier and JF17b can't.

If china can sell more fighter jets to other countries, sure we can sell more trainer to those countries.

Deserves a positive rating!

 

[nang2]

AVIC doesn't position jf17. Pakistan does

 

[CriticalThought]

AVIC doesn't position jf17. Pakistan does

I thought the deal with Myanmar was brokered through China?

 

[Beast]

I have long advocate L-15 is in competition with JF-17.

But too many people don't believe it. JF-17 is a project wanted by PAF while L-15 is a project supported by PLAAF. L-15 already see customer with Zambia and serving in PLAAF.

While JF-17 claim to have secure export customer has yet it in other AF colors.

The best part is both planes are made by China. It is easy to see which plane will be more successful in export market. JF-17B might be moving at a slow place so that L-15 will be able to capture more customer before JF-17B is ready for export. The twin seat is a massive advantage compare to JF-17 for many small air force.

 

[nang2]

I thought the deal with Myanmar was brokered through China?

China may facilitate but ultimately Pakistan drives the project. The road map and feature requirements all come from Pakistan. China acts more like a contractor.