PTI, JI’s first joint attack on PML-N in NA

[redgriffin]

& The lack of economic acumen in the members here amazes me. Dhakkans! By taxing to a higher rate the spending backbone of your economy, these douches are actually making things worse by reducing real spending power.
By not increasing the tax base, they are creating tremendous inequalities & there are so many technical points (procedural, implementational, resource prioritisation etc etc) which only pros can understand which can rip this budget to shreds.
To quote a KPMG Pakistan Senior Partner ''A budget for the rich by the rich.''

 

[muse]

As a CA all I can say regarding PmlN's supporters defending the budget here is that you whole lot are wilfull dumbasses, commenting on a topic you idiots don't have an iota of knowledge on. I've recieved budget briefs from the Big4 & a few Investment houses & the verdict across the board is unanimous ''Dar gave an absolutely **** budget which benefits big business more, squeezes SMEs & the salaried class & has done jackcrap for increasing the real tax base.'' Like a colleague & friend put it the most regressive budget he has seen in the last 12 years.
The budget has all the potential to push Pakistan into deflation & to the ignorant nutters on this forum DEFLATION = BAD. Comprende? Nah who am I wasting my breath at? Summun Bukmun quom.

Wait a minute - no one is suggesting that the budget is not business friendly -- Is business friendly now a bad thing? What has been pointed out is that indirect taxes, spread the the tax burden - that's all -- Should Pakistanis have more direct taxes, yes, from a PN and team who are themselves tax cheats? get real

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I believe salaries of fauji officers should be cut down and from that salaries of civil servants should be increased.

 

[Fracker]

GST is much like our VAT, guess what will happen thanks to this increase...

Inflation first and foremost, then also the incidence of the tax will bare even more so heavily on the poor than the rich (it's a regressive tax), it's also bad for businesses it's like adding a price floor for all products, also it carries high administrative costs for the government and firms.

Economists are the ones criticising it, but clearly just like myself and others, they are stupid people.

Tax reform could have been made on a more progressive income tax system, widening tax net, going after tax evaders.

Yes, it has it's benefits...

But YOU ought not to so blindly follow your leaders, your a person, a voter, stop behaving like sheep.

Dear, how this classify as Government will not go after TAX Evaders? Inflation is a fact, and no body criticize PPP government when it reached to 14% once. Mr. Khan also put same blame on SS. (PS: Even PTI offered same solution, but since it is not coming from them that's why it is a problem)

What I am expecting out of these new taxes is, removal of loadshadding, bring investors back to Pakistan with the trust of economy return, and more competition, and eventually more production means reduction in prices. which will help to reduce inflation in long end.

That is a load of BS mate!!

Salaried class, of which I am a representative, have always paid taxes. Unfortunately, we are the only ones who are paying direct taxes whereas the real elite of our country pay NO taxes at all. This Budget merely taxes us salaried citizens more, both directly and indirectly!!

That's another misconception you have mate. Get the FBR figures. Around 62% of the income tax only comes from industries. (Not Salary Class). Also, GST has major share from Industries alone.

PS: I also belong to same class, and if same would have done from PPP, I would be among you guyz and criticizing government for this, but This is no PPP government, and I am hopeful this scarify will not get wasted.

I believe salaries of fauji officers should be cut down and from that salaries of civil servants should be increased.

Civil Servants are getting already higher then Fauiji officers, how much you will cut more? (More Facilities is another thing)

 

[Mav3rick]

Specially, considering they have already paid 20 years of salary as commission to same politicians,, at the time of appointment.

That is not the case with all of us

answered in detail
http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-unnecessary-foreign-tours-2.html#post4408656

You want to refer me to something said by some one who does not even know that there is no 1200CC commercially available hybrid car???? And he happens to be the Finance Minister!!

 

[SBD-3]

That is not the case with all of us



You want to refer me to something said by some one who does not even know that there is no 1200CC commercially available hybrid car???? And he happens to be the Finance Minister!!

?????????????? actually this duty was present even before he was finance minister. And if you say that 1200CC car doesn't even exist then all the finance ministers in the previous government (which also happened to include economists like hafeez pasha) were also morons because they put import duty on something that never existed?
and btw I guess we were talking about taxation. And now you're distracting the discussion to another thing?

 

[Mav3rick]

That's another misconception you have mate. Get the FBR figures. Around 62% of the income tax only comes from industries. (Not Salary Class). Also, GST has major share from Industries alone.

You want to engage me in a debate that is partially off topic. Here I was writing on how the salaried class carries most of the burden and there you go nitpicking FBR figures on how much is taxed on what industry!!

Dude, for the love of God, what industry does not deduct income tax of the employees which contributes to the 62% figure you have quoted???? Income tax of all those industries defined income tax deducted from salaries of the employees and not the employer!!!!!

Not just that, 60% of the tax comes from the service industry and not general industries as you have tried to portray. Around 24% comes from industries that are not considered as service industry.

Furthermore, and most importantly, where is the tax on the rich??? Where is the tax on agriculture income?? Merely stating that it is a provincial matter does not make the problem go away. What reforms were implemented in Punjab in regards to agricultural tax? Why don't the large land owners pay more taxes? What measures have been taken to bring back the wealth of the country, looti hue dolat ka koi recovery plan kion nahi hai?? I have paid taxes ever since I started earning an income, why do I always have to pay more???

Civil Servants are getting already higher then Fauiji officers, how much you will cut more? (More Facilities is another thing)

What civil servant gets paid more then the military men??? Haram ki kamai hata ker salary pata hai civil servants ki from grade 1 to grade 21?? Perks compare keroge? Not that I am in any way supporting the idea of lowering anybody's salary. But all salaries need to be revised considering not only inflation but also the salaries of the private sector.

 

[Mav3rick]

?????????????? actually this duty was present even before he was finance minister. And if you say that 1200CC car doesn't even exist then all the finance ministers in the previous government (which also happened to include economists like hafeez pasha) were also morons because they put import duty on something that never existed?
and btw I guess we were talking about taxation. And now you're distracting the discussion to another thing?

I am not trying to distract any discussion, merely trying to point out how moronic it is that the finance minister has no idea that there is no 1200cc Hybrid car!! We can safely state that the members of the previous government weren't just morons, they were dumb, incompetent, corrupt ***** but the current Finance Minister doesn't seem any better!!

 

[SBD-3]

I am not trying to distract any discussion, merely trying to point out how moronic it is that the finance minister has no idea that there is no 1200cc Hybrid car!! We can safely state that the members of the previous government weren't just morons, they were dumb, incompetent, corrupt ***** but the current Finance Minister doesn't seem any better!!

Thats what i am saying, he has merely withdrawn the duty on something which was imposed by the previous governments. So if 1200 CC hybrids doesn't exist in the first place how did the previous government imposed duty on these ghost cars? So if previous government is also a moron, then tell who is not!

 

[BATMAN]

Every tax has to be passed by the parliament before being imposed, no?

Isn't that the whole purpose of discussing the budget in parliament and passing it?

Isn't that why the Supreme Court sought a clarification from the government?

Iftikhar ch. was impeached by the orders of same parliament... and Imran Khan went long march.

Point is N.Sharif has enough power to crush supreme court as he had in past.. when you forgot to condemn his firing army chief without informing him.

 

[Mav3rick]

Thats what i am saying, he has merely withdrawn the duty on something which was imposed by the previous governments. So if 1200 CC hybrids doesn't exist in the first place how did the previous government imposed duty on these ghost cars? So if previous government is also a moron, then tell who is not!

O bhai, is that your justification that since the previous government was a moron the current has to be one? Couldn't he make an informed decision, I mean he could have asked his PS to call the GM of any auto manufacturer and they could have informed him of what was available in Hybrid. If the current government relies on the previous government, what does it make former if the later was highly incompetent?

 

[SBD-3]

O bhai, is that your justification that since the previous government was a moron the current has to be one? Couldn't he make an informed decision, I mean he could have asked his PS to call the GM of any auto manufacturer and they could have informed him of what was available in Hybrid. If the current government relies on the previous government, what does it make former if the later was highly incompetent?

What i mean that is there any financial loss thats been suffered from this decision? or is there any malafied intention in this? of course if FBR makes a decision, they don't do it without any information or expectations. Policies are not merely backward looking, they also have to account for future expectations. Furthermore, these policies provide incentives for desired products. Suppose if governments all across the globe don't include 1200CC products and do not announce incentives would manufacturers be willing to produce them? In economics incentives lead to initatives and subsequently welfare. As far as contacting any auto CEO is concerned, why would he be supportive or informative for any step that would take away his chunk of income? The problem with our auto sector is that they have also been effectively blackmailing the government. These manufacturers were required to completely manufacture the autos in Pakistan but even today our auto sector hasn't been able to go beyond mehran. So these CEOs have effectively are good for nothing for any government.

 

[Jungibaaz]

1-Of course consumption taxes are regressive but they are levied nevertheless because its rarely possible to collect all the income from progressive taxation.

Exactly, and why increase rates when inflation and inequality are two things you could really do without.

It will hit the poor doubly, once through inflation, then again through impact on business.
Loss of purchasing power in real terms for the poorest.

While I agree, taxes such as GST are vital and could be increased in the future. Now is really not the time.

2-However, the changes in VAT are more inflationary than GST because VAT involved multistage taxation whereas GST follows one point taxation. So if VAT increases by 1%, the taxation burden increases at all the steps by 1%, translating into relatively higher inflation than GST.

Of course, GST in a full fledged VAT tax, but inflationary pressures will arise in any case.
Only recently has inflation fallen to lower 5-6% rate.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Dear, how this classify as Government will not go after TAX Evaders? Inflation is a fact, and no body criticize PPP government when it reached to 14% once. Mr. Khan also put same blame on SS. (PS: Even PTI offered same solution, but since it is not coming from them that's why it is a problem)

What I am expecting out of these new taxes is, removal of loadshadding, bring investors back to Pakistan with the trust of economy return, and more competition, and eventually more production means reduction in prices. which will help to reduce inflation in long end.

You are completely missing the point.
I mean the type of tax chosen (GST hike in this case) is not right for the current situation, income tax amendments were made weirdly reduced for lowest income and increased for lower middle class (the class in which tax levied the least), then decreased for middle and upper middle class income earners. This GST increase will hit the poor, and unnecessarily, they could just have easily have made the income tax more progressive rather than increasing GST vastly, also the decrease in income tax is also unnecessary, unemployment has been around 5-6% which will be dealt with by generating recovery rather then having a dodgy change in income tax.

You think I support the last government? Pakistan saw the worst few years of it's time under that government and also (don't forget) along with that opposition.

And as for the last part, we all want to see Pakistan prosper, but there's a long while before we see real recovery and few budget amendments are entirely insignificant.

 

[redgriffin]

Reading the comments all I can say again is all the commentators are kanas trying to be rajas amongst the blind.
GST fyi is a multistage tax just like VAT (I deal with this byatch monthly for clients) so get it straight k ye single point tax nahi hae dumbos.
2ndly regarding hybrid cars. Vide an SRO issued in Sept Oct 2012 the duty on import of hybrid cars was slashed by 75% (i.e a 75% exemption was given). The duty on hybrid cars of any engine class was a flat 25% got it.
This budget has actually INCREASED the duty on hybrid cars aqal k andho!!!
There are only 2 commercially available hybrid cars below 1200CC, VW Golf & a car by Kia & both of those even after the 100% exemption are more expensive than a Prius or that Honda hybrid.
Moronic budget presented by a money laundering moron defended by even bigger morons IMO.
Btw the person who called me out on the budget being business friendly bad? It is bad because it is BIG BUSINESS friendly at the cost of SME's & salaried class & various other reasons.
Btw industry pays income tax (this to the incometax wala genius) = 0. Got it! It just deducts the tax at source for employees & deposits it. Of this 64% is deposited by the service industry sector. Where are the formal manufacturing, raw material extraction, processing & other industries in this? Where is agriculture's share in this huh?
They all hire workers on daily wage basis. Pay in cash & not a single pai is paid by them in any sort of tax due to window dressing of accounts. Management accounts or or tax accounts or & there is a humongous difference in the two sets of books.
Beghairat tabqa, beghairat tabqay ki beghairat hakoomat.
I hate all the industrialists, land holders, wholesalers, retailers & the tax chor SME sector. Is mulk ki economic tabahi ki wajah ye loag haen busss! Pichlay 7-8 saal se ye sara dekh raha houn or andar hi andar kurh raha houn.