Poll - Should Pakistan Launch A War Against Indian Occupiers?

[notorious_eagle]

Any initiative of aggression from our side will give the Bhakts the higher moral ground which they seek in international media(intl governments have already ceded them a blanket notice due to their economic influence).

We need to find ways to get them to attack us first. They are impatient and eager for it, we just need to play this game of chicken with more patience than them.

Exactly, fight them from a position that suits us rather then a position that suits them.

Then they don’t - we will keep pushing the issue but their focus is to achieve a west bank scenario.

Unless our economy picks up, we cannot support infiltrators anymore.

Are you sure about that? All the chatter that i am hearing especially in regards to the procurement side from the Army, there does appear to be extensive planning happening on the Pakistani side to build an infrastructure to support the Freedom Fighters.

If I were in Pakistan then I would have voted in favour of war. While I am enjoying luxurious life of west, I can't advise my fellow Pakistanis to give their sons for my fun.

There are other options beside a head on war, and from the likes of it this is what Pakistan will opt for. Kashmiris will bleed, and thousands will die, but they will be armed to the teeth and this won't be the 90's anymore where they will only be armed with AK47's.

 

[Kaniska]

The desired objective of Pakistan can only possibly be achived either use this oppertunity to initiate war or else wait for the time when Pakistan will have an upper hand with respect to economy of India..

 

[SQ8]

Exactly, fight them from a position that suits us rather then a position that suits them.



Are you sure about that? All the chatter that i am hearing especially in regards to the procurement side from the Army, there does appear to be extensive planning happening on the Pakistani side to build an infrastructure to support the Freedom Fighters.



There are other options beside a head on war, and from the likes of it this is what Pakistan will opt for. Kashmiris will bleed, and thousands will die, but they will be armed to the teeth and this won't be the 90's anymore where they will only be armed with AK47's.

Its rumors and unsubstantiated.. please understand.

 

[Indos]

P.S. kindly no dumb suggestions like a Nuclear Fallout as your only backup option then. If your backup option in a war you start is a nuclear fallout, then it's a bad war plan. Enough said.

You and I both know you are lying. My foot, you would come back to Pakistan. We both know, people would be, first thing, leaving Pakistan and India in case of a Nuclear fallout.

It is a surprised to me to see that many Pakistani in this forum wanting for war than peace. Going to war over Kashmir is a foolish act, it is a disputed land and British has responsible on it, better be patience and keep growing Pakistan economy and military. I dont see any reasonable reason for war and if Pakistan decide to do it, it is really a very emotional decision and very foolish. Pakistan is also the only nuclear capable Muslim nation on earth, the war will not only destroy Pakistan, but also Muslim world as a whole. I also dont see Kashmiri being treated like Chinese treat Ugyur, Kashmiri is still allowed to work and worship Allah freely, no limitation on them.

I also read Hadith from prophet who forbid people to do revolt on government, what they can do is just demonstrating and criticizing the government, and thats it. I dont want to see Pakistan become another Syria. And not only that, Pakistan is a very important nation in the Muslim world, going to war with India, another nuclear capable countries with stronger economy, will only lead to Pakistan destruction, and if Pakistan get destroyed it will also weaken the Muslim world as a whole. Israel and Tea party member in USA will become the only winning side of the war.

Kashmiri should not revolt, particularly against a Nuclear armed India.

O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you.

Surat al-Nisa 4:59

Listening to and obeying the leader is an obligation upon a Muslim, whether he likes it or dislikes it, as long as he is not commanded to disobey Allah. If he is commanded to disobey, then there is no listening or obedience.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 2796, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi

Awf ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

خِيَارُ أَئِمَّتِكُمْ الَّذِينَ تُحِبُّونَهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَكُمْ وَيُصَلُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَتُصَلُّونَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَشِرَارُ أَئِمَّتِكُمْ الَّذِينَ تُبْغِضُونَهُمْ وَيُبْغِضُونَكُمْ وَتَلْعَنُونَهُمْ وَيَلْعَنُونَكُمْ

The best of your rulers are those whom you love and they love you, who pray for you and you pray for them. The worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and they hate you, whom you curse and they curse you.

It was said, “Shall we confront them with swords?” The Prophet said:

لَا مَا أَقَامُوا فِيكُمْ الصَّلَاةَ وَإِذَا رَأَيْتُمْ مِنْ وُلَاتِكُمْ شَيْئًا تَكْرَهُونَهُ فَاكْرَهُوا عَمَلَهُ وَلَا تَنْزِعُوا يَدًا مِنْ طَاعَةٍ

No, as long as they establish prayer among you. If you find something hateful from them, you should hate their actions but not withdraw your hand from obedience.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1855, Grade: Sahih

In many narrations, the Prophet has forbidden us from rebelling against the rulers as long as they pray and allow Islam to be practiced in their lands. Violence that leads to civil war almost always results in a much worse situation than the unjust ruler himself. While an unjust ruler is an evil in itself, the violence required to overthrow him is even worse.

https://abuaminaelias.com/islam-forbids-violent-rebellion-against-an-unjust-muslim-ruler/

 

[American Pakistani]

It is a surprised to me to see that many Pakistani in this forum wanting for war than peace. Going to war over Kashmir is a foolish act, it is a disputed land and British has responsible on it, better be patience and keep growing Pakistan economy and military. I dont see any reasonable reason for war and if Pakistan decide to do it, it is really a very emotional decision and very foolish. Pakistan is also the only nuclear capable Muslim nation on earth, the war will not only destroy Pakistan, but also Muslim world as a whole. I also dont see Kashmiri being treated like Chinese treat Ugyur, Kashmiri is still allowed to work and worship Allah freely, no limitation on them.

I also read Hadith from prophet who forbid people to do revolt on government, what they can do is just demonstrating and criticizing the government, and thats it. I dont want to see Pakistan become another Syria. And not only that, Pakistan is a very important nation in the Muslim world, going to war with India, another nuclear capable countries with stronger economy, will only lead to Pakistan destruction, and if Pakistan get destroyed it will also weaken the Muslim world as a whole. Israel and Tea party member in USA will become the only winning side of the war.

Kashmiri should not revolt, particularly against a Nuclear armed India.

O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you.

Surat al-Nisa 4:59

Listening to and obeying the leader is an obligation upon a Muslim, whether he likes it or dislikes it, as long as he is not commanded to disobey Allah. If he is commanded to disobey, then there is no listening or obedience.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 2796, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi

Awf ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

خِيَارُ أَئِمَّتِكُمْ الَّذِينَ تُحِبُّونَهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَكُمْ وَيُصَلُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَتُصَلُّونَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَشِرَارُ أَئِمَّتِكُمْ الَّذِينَ تُبْغِضُونَهُمْ وَيُبْغِضُونَكُمْ وَتَلْعَنُونَهُمْ وَيَلْعَنُونَكُمْ

The best of your rulers are those whom you love and they love you, who pray for you and you pray for them. The worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and they hate you, whom you curse and they curse you.

It was said, “Shall we confront them with swords?” The Prophet said:

لَا مَا أَقَامُوا فِيكُمْ الصَّلَاةَ وَإِذَا رَأَيْتُمْ مِنْ وُلَاتِكُمْ شَيْئًا تَكْرَهُونَهُ فَاكْرَهُوا عَمَلَهُ وَلَا تَنْزِعُوا يَدًا مِنْ طَاعَةٍ

No, as long as they establish prayer among you. If you find something hateful from them, you should hate their actions but not withdraw your hand from obedience.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1855, Grade: Sahih

In many narrations, the Prophet has forbidden us from rebelling against the rulers as long as they pray and allow Islam to be practiced in their lands. Violence that leads to civil war almost always results in a much worse situation than the unjust ruler himself. While an unjust ruler is an evil in itself, the violence required to overthrow him is even worse.

https://abuaminaelias.com/islam-forbids-violent-rebellion-against-an-unjust-muslim-ruler/

Seems like you are slow on news. Read again, I was not in favor of war until I realized what is happening in Indian occupied kashmir IOK. There is a genocide and change of demographics by forceful marriage.

Forcefuly marrying Kashmiri girls while killing their brothers, father, husband, etc. Making kids with them and injecting hindutva nazi ideology and love for bhart in them. If this doesn't boil someone's blood than they are not human in my dictionary.

What is Indonesia going to do if let's say one of your island maybe bali is occupied by Israel type neighbor of Indonesia? India had agreements with Pakistan and UN that the disputed status will not be change unilaterally, and people will be given choice to choose, but Indian occupier govt changed the status unilaterally and now planning to change the demographics by forceful marriages.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

If you do that, you would be doing exactly what Modi wants and fall into his trap.

He is doing all this to take the attention of the Indian public away from the slow economy. What better way to keep them distracted and keep his popularity alive than a conflict with Pakistan ?

 

[M. Sarmad]

It is a surprised to me to see that many Pakistani in this forum wanting for war than peace. Going to war over Kashmir is a foolish act, it is a disputed land and British has responsible on it, better be patience and keep growing Pakistan economy and military. I dont see any reasonable reason for war and if Pakistan decide to do it, it is really a very emotional decision and very foolish. Pakistan is also the only nuclear capable Muslim nation on earth, the war will not only destroy Pakistan, but also Muslim world as a whole. I also dont see Kashmiri being treated like Chinese treat Ugyur, Kashmiri is still allowed to work and worship Allah freely, no limitation on them.

I also read Hadith from prophet who forbid people to do revolt on government, what they can do is just demonstrating and criticizing the government, and thats it. I dont want to see Pakistan become another Syria. And not only that, Pakistan is a very important nation in the Muslim world, going to war with India, another nuclear capable countries with stronger economy, will only lead to Pakistan destruction, and if Pakistan get destroyed it will also weaken the Muslim world as a whole. Israel and Tea party member in USA will become the only winning side of the war.

Kashmiri should not revolt, particularly against a Nuclear armed India.

O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you.

Surat al-Nisa 4:59

Listening to and obeying the leader is an obligation upon a Muslim, whether he likes it or dislikes it, as long as he is not commanded to disobey Allah. If he is commanded to disobey, then there is no listening or obedience.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 2796, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi

Awf ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

خِيَارُ أَئِمَّتِكُمْ الَّذِينَ تُحِبُّونَهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَكُمْ وَيُصَلُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَتُصَلُّونَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَشِرَارُ أَئِمَّتِكُمْ الَّذِينَ تُبْغِضُونَهُمْ وَيُبْغِضُونَكُمْ وَتَلْعَنُونَهُمْ وَيَلْعَنُونَكُمْ

The best of your rulers are those whom you love and they love you, who pray for you and you pray for them. The worst of your rulers are those whom you hate and they hate you, whom you curse and they curse you.

It was said, “Shall we confront them with swords?” The Prophet said:

لَا مَا أَقَامُوا فِيكُمْ الصَّلَاةَ وَإِذَا رَأَيْتُمْ مِنْ وُلَاتِكُمْ شَيْئًا تَكْرَهُونَهُ فَاكْرَهُوا عَمَلَهُ وَلَا تَنْزِعُوا يَدًا مِنْ طَاعَةٍ

No, as long as they establish prayer among you. If you find something hateful from them, you should hate their actions but not withdraw your hand from obedience.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1855, Grade: Sahih

In many narrations, the Prophet has forbidden us from rebelling against the rulers as long as they pray and allow Islam to be practiced in their lands. Violence that leads to civil war almost always results in a much worse situation than the unjust ruler himself. While an unjust ruler is an evil in itself, the violence required to overthrow him is even worse.

https://abuaminaelias.com/islam-forbids-violent-rebellion-against-an-unjust-muslim-ruler/

Well, my friend as you have quoted a verse from Chapter 4 of the Holy Qur'an(that does not support your pov anyways), here is another verse from the same chapter which you have conveniently ignored:

And how could you refuse to fight in the cause of God and of the utterly helpless men and women and children who are crying, "O our Sustainer! Lead us forth [to freedom] out of this land whose people are oppressors, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, a protector, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, one who will bring us succour!" [4:75]

 

[Super Falcon]

No we must arm kashmiris and open a jihadi netwo 3rd k for a gureilla war that foght in Afghanistan

 

[HAIDER]

No we must arm kashmiris and open a jihadi netwo 3rd k for a gureilla war that foght in Afghanistan

you mean slow bleed...

 

[Indos]

Well, my friend as you have quoted a verse from Chapter 4 of the Holy Qur'an(that does not support your pov anyways), here is another verse from the same chapter which you have conveniently ignored:

And how could you refuse to fight in the cause of God and of the utterly helpless men and women and children who are crying, "O our Sustainer! Lead us forth [to freedom] out of this land whose people are oppressors, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, a protector, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, one who will bring us succour!" [4:75]

This verse in my opinion is for Syrian people Today (not the time when they started their revolt which I see match with the condition of previous verses and hadith) and we Muslim are the one that should be blamed for what is happening there. Kashmiris on the other hand are not killed and bombed just like in Syria and Kashmiris are still free to exercise their religion.

Seems like you are slow on news. Read again, I was not in favor of war until I realized what is happening in Indian occupied kashmir IOK. There is a genocide and change of demographics by forceful marriage.

Forcefuly marrying Kashmiri girls while killing their brothers, father, husband, etc. Making kids with them and injecting hindutva nazi ideology and love for bhart in them. If this doesn't boil someone's blood than they are not human in my dictionary.

What is Indonesia going to do if let's say one of your island maybe bali is occupied by Israel type neighbor of Indonesia? India had agreements with Pakistan and UN that the disputed status will not be change unilaterally, and people will be given choice to choose, but Indian occupier govt changed the status unilaterally and now planning to change the demographics by forceful marriages.

I think those information are fake news, I will wait until international media report it. Look, Indonesia during Soekarno regime wanted to annex Malaysia and had a war with British, Australia, Malaysia, and New Zealand in Borneo island. Soeharto came to power, and he stop the war since he prefers to build the nation rather than just expanding it. We also leave East Timor after we see holding it become our barrier.

 

[Lincoln]

This verse in my opinion is for Syrian people Today (not the time when they started their revolt which I see match with the condition of previous verses and hadith) and we Muslim are the one that should be blamed for what is happening there. Kashmiris on the other hand are not killed and bombed just like in Syria and Kashmiris are still free to exercise their religion.



I think those information are fake news, I will wait until international media report it. Look, Indonesia during Soekarno regime wanted to annex Malaysia and had a war with British, Australia, Malaysia, and New Zealand in Borneo island. Soeharto came to power, and he stop the war since he prefers to build the nation rather than just expanding it. We also leave East Timor after we see holding it become our barrier.

I hope Indonesia gets occupied, but they let you pray, then you have no excuse too. Right?

 

[SIPRA]

I hope Indonesia gets occupied, but they let you pray, then you have no excuse too. Right?

Irony is that Indonesia was colonized by Dutch and they carried out a long armed struggle against Dutch, to get freedom. Unfortunately, materialism has totally destructed the psyche of the most of the Muslims.

 

[Indos]

I hope Indonesia gets occupied, but they let you pray, then you have no excuse too. Right?

This conflict is brought by the British and I hope you guys realize it. Pakistan must learn the example of world war 1 and world war 2 among the European nations. Better feel satisfied with the existing boundaries rather than going to the war that will possibly destroy your entire nation.

If the war get heated and prolonged, it has a potency to spill over to other region, and each side will destroy their enemy infrastructures. It will be extremely bad for your economy. And your opponent is India who has great military and economic power. I predict even if there is a war happening there will be no change happening from the existing boundaries, and when you start considering the war will not get you anything, you have already destroyed your economy.

I wonder what make you change your view ?

 

[SIPRA]

This conflict is brought by the British and I hope you guys realize it. Pakistan must learn the example of world war 1 and world war 2 among the European nations. Better feel satisfied with the existing boundaries rather than going to the war that will possibly destroy your entire nation.

If the war get heated and prolonged, it has a potency to spill over to other region, and each side will destroy their enemy infrastructures. It will be extremely bad for your economy. And your opponent is India who has great military and economic power. I predict even if there is a war happening there will be no change happening from the existing boundaries, and when you start considering the war will not get you anything, you have already destroyed your economy.

I wonder what make you change your view ?

Your sole problem is that you are deliberating on an issue, through long posts, about which you hardly know anything, that matters. Your posts are full of historical inaccuracies and consequently your analysis cannot be right.

 

[M. Sarmad]

This verse in my opinion is for Syrian people Today (not the time when they started their revolt which I see match with the condition of previous verses and hadith) and we Muslim are the one that should be blamed for what is happening there. Kashmiris on the other hand are not killed and bombed just like in Syria and Kashmiris are still free to exercise their religion.
.

You, of course, are wrong about that. That verse is about every oppressed Muslim man, woman and child, anywhere in the world. It's not time or context bound, nor is it applicable to some specific geographic area or group of people only.

Indonesia has been supporting India on Kashmir in the UN lately, it also backed India joining OIC. You are interested in developing strategic and business ties with Fascist Indian Hindus, do it, but don't bring Qur'an and Islam into it. That's sheer hypocrisy

Also, read up on Kashmir issue first. You are absolutely clueless