PM okays lifting of 32% flour subsidy

[ziaulislam]

Daft move. I don't agree with subsidies generally but considering the current inflation making bread 34% more expensive is stupid.

While he digs his own political grave, we dig the graves of the poor who will suffer.

If IK really wanted to bring tabdeeli he would have turned millions of acres of state owned lands into farmland and hired labourers to farm it. Sell the produce in the open market at cost price and drive down the prices of food.

That way subsidies would be lifted, jobs would be created, inflation would decrease - the the Kings of Pakistan would suffer.

We can print rupees instead..

 

[S.Y.A]

This increase in fixed procurement price was covered via subsidies. Most of the people on this forum are already buying wheat at non subsidised rates, at I think more than 2000Rs per 40kg so this does not affect us.

you do realize how Pakistani market works? if imported milk is taxed, local milk producers increase their prices as well. this is what will happen to wheat. while govt has reduced subsidy only on its stock, others will raise prices

We can print rupees instead..

or the govt can get smart hardworking working people who actually work on improving management rather than taxing the shit out of everything.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir to explain in layman terms. There are 2 things.

1) By fixing the price for 5 years our wheat production remained stangnant we need to increase the base price to incentivize farmers and increase crop output because we consume more and more wheat each year.
Our farmers were moving away from agriculture and selling their land to real state. This was much needed to stop that as it concerns food security. Over a decade we became net importer from exporter.
We had the highest production of wheat last year and this year there will be record crop as well. Our driver brought over a 10kg bag of wheat as his crop was very good and he was happy during last season.



2) This increase in fixed procurement price was covered via subsidies. Most of the people on this forum are already buying wheat at non subsidised rates, at I think more than 2000Rs per 40kg so this does not affect us.

Governemnt does not procure all the wheat, this subsidy was limited to Governemnt stock. What happened is with the already established market rate the majority of subsidy amount was skimmed off by the dealers, Mills ( basically middle men) not to the average buyer.

Market rate is 1210 rupees per 20kg, 2420 Rs per 40kg (flour) in Punjab. In karachi its 2640Rs / 40kg.
The government was releasing its stock at 1475Rs ( wheat). No flour was sold at 1600Rs in market. This method of subsidy does not work. Infact this model does not work.


The lower income segment relies on utility stores. This has a direct impact on consumer. As long as utility store prices are maintained I do not see any impact on the segment that relies on government subsidy.

Unforutanely the theme is to fix the wheat prices and kill the farmers..everyone wants to be salary men ans noone wants to work in the farms..
Everyone wants to import cheap and be an enterpr...so what will the end result be..we dont have oil..so obvisouly look at lebanon

We have only three paths
1. Help the poor via targeted spending, continue path of balancing the books and development with fiscal constrains

2. Print notes..worked for nawaz sharif and hope that arabs will bail us out in two years

3. cut off spending in defense, state enterprises and electricity subsidies(three biggest spenders)

I would recomend talking to india and withdrawing from kashmir, this will help(to reduce defense spending)
Also giving up nuclear weapons may help in international trade, so will accepting isreal...

Also Building solar plants and hydro plants with help of "dumbledore" within two years will help decrease the cost of power..

you do realize how Pakistani market works? if imported milk is taxed, local milk producers increase their prices as well. this is what will happen to wheat. while govt has reduced subsidy only on its stock, others will raise prices

or the govt can get smart hardworking working people who actually work on improving management rather than taxing the shit out of everything.

So will money earned by farmers and so will salary class and govt employees under inflation pressure

But you cant run subsidies..this is a given period..you tried it for 50yrs see where are you right now vs india bengaldesh vietnam china and south korea
Strutural issues not fixed by this govt or previous govt

Still not taxing the middle men or any buisnessmen and going after producers is what is the real problem here leading to poor productivity

 

[ziaulislam]

guys my point is very clear . no increase in food prices .just 10 -20 basic food items .
atta
daals
local ghee/oil
spices like chili salt etc
local chicken /meats
fruits
vegetables
rice
sugar
milk
etc

please note there is a poor country like us named egypt where since last 50-60 years bread price is smae . last time gov tried to increase bread price in 1977 which was turned violent and forced gov to reverse change . a bread is basic need not ayashi .

increase anything else i will not oppose but basic life items must be strict in control

batti bana leen tabdeeli ki adhi hamary pichwary main deen adhi apny ye log

Hypothetically if we fix wheat prices we have to do it one of the two ways
1. Tell farmers/industrialists **** you-->low productivity farmers will stop growing
2. Subsidize it..subdizing but you need money for that.
without other sources of revenues and fixing the economy (which PTI hasnt done a good job under pretext of "instability" during "fragile recovery" means you can either axe your development funds(which gives u better return then subsidizing your food prices) or cut spending in three big areas..defense, state wnterprises and electricity/oil subsidy

Sins of yestwrday arent cleaned in a day..you cant expect 50% devalaution and higj ROR power projects to have no lasting impacts

you do realize how Pakistani market works? if imported milk is taxed, local milk producers increase their prices as well. this is what will happen to wheat. while govt has reduced subsidy only on its stock, others will raise prices

or the govt can get smart hardworking working people who actually work on improving management rather than taxing the shit out of everything.

Agree to this part..taxation reforms are lacking, R&D, savings and strutral reforms are slow..may be touch better then before(as govt is saying the right words but not doing it under pretext of "fragile recovery" and buckling to strikes)

 

[313ghazi]

We can print rupees instead..

I don't think that would help. Quantative easing would further devalue the rupee and so imports would become more expensive and and inflation would continue to rise.

 

[313ghazi]

There is no state owned millions of acres of arable land. It is hard to find even a kanal of uncultivated land in the agricultural areas of Pakistan. Government ki kahin agricultural land ho bhi to log qabza Karlain ga government ko khali karanay ka liye operation krna pray ga

How true is that? According to this paper the state owns quite a bit of farming land already.

https://www.iss.nl/sites/corporate/files/LDPI_WP_07.pdf

see section 3.1 on page 3. Surely all the land in the country is not already owned by people?

 

[Patriot forever]

This will help understand the equation. Have to listen to the voice of 40% of our population who normally people don't pay attention to.

Our prices are almost same as India which has long ago learned that this model of subsidising everything is in no one's interest. Look at their petrol prices or agriculture crop prices. No majority of their people are not better off than average Pakistani.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438375008405950468

 

[ziaulislam]

Food inflation globally is ticking almost 30%

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

In USA it was 8%
So should pakistan subsidize food globally or do targetd subsidy by giving cash to poor is the main question

 

[darksider]

Gabhrana nahi hey

 

[ziaulislam]

I don't think that would help. Quantative easing would further devalue the rupee and so imports would become more expensive and and inflation would continue to rise.

duh, isnt that obvious!!!..but majority of pakistanis want it

 

[darksider]

 

[Zibago]

O bhai, all of this "bahana" to not take any substantial steps due to pure laziness and sheer incompetence i.e. an end to aarhti system. cut out the middle man or force them to reduce their margin and increase payment to farmers. strict regulation and management is needed. but for that, you need aql, and hardwork; one no one has, and the other, no one wants to do, specially our civil service and politicians.

We need to implement direct farmer to market access

 

[Vapnope]

PTI was supposed to do these things,
- Reduce inflation
- Reduce taxes on common citizen
- Tax the rich
- Increase exports

Everyone should check the present stats and evaluate PTI on it instead of making it PTI VS PMLn & PPP.

 

[ziaulislam]

PTI was supposed to do these things,
- Reduce inflation
- Reduce taxes on common citizen
- Tax the rich
- Increase exports

Everyone should check the present stats and evaluate PTI on it instead of making it PTI VS PMLn & PPP.

Reduce inflation after doing 50% devaluation due to incompetenc of PMLN
IMF was demanding rupee to go to 200, pakistani would have been happy with that!

Talk about having an IQ of below 70.

 

[Vapnope]

Reduce inflation after doing 50% devaluation due to incompetenc of PMLN
IMF was demanding rupee to go to 200, pakistani would have been happy with that!

Talk about having an IQ of below 70.

Thing is, PTI knew everything from 2016 and interestingly claimed to have everything worked out. 2018 they come into power and they don't deliver and now even after 3 years there is no plan in sight to make structural changes to address the chronic issues of economy.

IMF DOESN'T demand, they only suggest and it is up to the govt to take their suggestions or come up with their own plan.

And what IQ are you talking about?