PM Khan okays 46% rise in gas tariff

[Lagay Raho]

 

[Maxpane]

Good decision

 

[Jungibaaz]

I don't blame this government, tough measures need to be taken now and for the next five years so that we aren't another IMF basket case in 2023. Taxes need to be raised, credit expansion checked, energy prices will rise, pkr will be kept weak, both deficits of the government budget and the current account balance need to be reduced, and important economic reforms will need to be taken.

These will be DEEPLY unpopular with ordinary people. I also believe that all the promises PTI made about 5 million homes, 10 millions jobs, other government funded projects and investments should not even be attempted, as they will throw off the efforts of these tough measures. The government needs to be honest with the people, the next five years we first have to save Pakistan, we can start building export industries back, and then think about quick growth.

Unfortunately, no government, political party thinks long term or that deeply about Pakistan. And our media are a bunch of retards, only good for promoting political bickering, they don't seem to have even the slightest knowledge of economics, any idiotic criticism from them regarding an IMF loan and tough measures is wrong.

 

[maximuswarrior]

I don't blame this government, tough measures need to be taken now and for the next five years so that we aren't another IMF basket case in 2023. Taxes need to be raised, credit expansion checked, energy prices will rise, pkr will be kept weak, both deficits of the government budget and the current account balance need to be reduced, and important economic reforms will need to be taken.

These will be DEEPLY unpopular with ordinary people. I also believe that all the promises PTI made about 5 million homes, 10 millions jobs, other government funded projects and investments should not even be attempted, as they will throw off the efforts of these tough measures. The government needs to be honest with the people, the next five years we first have to save Pakistan, we can start building export industries back, and then think about quick growth.

Unfortunately, no government, political party thinks long term or that deeply about Pakistan. And our media are a bunch of retards, only good for promoting political bickering, they don't seem to have even the slightest knowledge of economics, any idiotic criticism from them regarding an IMF loan and tough measures is wrong.

This is exactly the bitter truth. The sooner everyone accepts it the better.

No side should play politics over this. The next 5 years or so won't be any fun. Just to get the economy back on rails means sacrifice from top to bottom.

Get extremely tough on corruption. Start including the rich in the tax net. Look at costly imports and try to find a good balance. Austerity along with improving revenue generation is the only way forward.

Also get that bastard Ishaq Dar back to Pakistan and we need a comprehensive chitrol of every corrupt leech that has brought this day upon Pakistan.

 

[A.A. Khan]

@Jungibaaz

Rofl how much industrial growth has happened in Pakistan under IMF programs from 1994 onwards.

How can one build industry with a cost of doing business, cost of living the highest in Asia all thanks to the consistent IMF programs.

Please Don't make excuses Pakistanis are sick and fed up with the same old statements Pakistan khatrey main, IMF zaroori hai.
IMF is not for the poor or middle class. Its for the fat cats, banks and other US agents who can't compete with foreign made products.
Go poll and take referendum asking Pakistanis would they want their economy to default or take IMF, majority will say better default so that all suffer and change their behaviour.

IMF has massacred the daily wage earners, middle class of Pakistan.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz

Rofl how much industrial growth has happened in Pakistan under IMF programs from 1994 onwards.

How can one build industry with a cost of doing business, cost of living the highest in Asia all thanks to the consistent IMF programs.

Please Don't make excuses Pakistanis are sick and fed up with the same old statements Pakistan khatrey main, IMF zaroori hai.
IMF is not for the poor or middle class. Its for the fat cats, banks and other US agents who can't compete with foreign made products.
Go poll and take referendum asking Pakistanis would they want their economy to default or take IMF, majority will say better default so that all suffer and change their behaviour.

IMF has massacred the daily wage earners, middle class of Pakistan.

You need to read carefully what I've said before reacting, your response is way off in targetting my actual opinions. You're crying about the effects of IMF loans, I agree the effects are bad. But what's the alternative, please enlighten us all? And while you're at it, inform EAC, SBP, and Asad Umer.

You have dwindling forex reserves, a completely unsustainable current account deficit and bad fiscal policies to make matters worse. Those gas prices that are rising, what happens when you take no loan and SBP announces there are no dollars left? What will your outrage about ordinary people do? In that situation, believe me, you'll wish you had taken the bailout.

I'm not arguing in favour of IMF loans, I'm saying we've had no choice but to accept them due to bad policies, short-term thinking, and debt/consumption fuelled growth.

You could go to the IMF again, and if you don't rebalance the economy through tough measures, you'll be back with the IMF again in 2023, and then in 2028 etc. Every new government will place a crisis in the hands of the next that will then have no choice to go for another loan.

Incidentally, it also doesn't matter much where the loan comes from, IMF loan conditions suck, I agree. But if we don't fix underlying problems in the economy, we'll be reliant on begging bowl, IMF loans, or other bailouts in perpetuum.

 

[A.A. Khan]

@Jungibaaz

Please again don't employ same excuses there were many options available [some of it are available in his parliament speeches when he was in opposition] or even govt. could've shown with their actions IMF was a last resort . Taking on the har**mkhor corrupt bureaucratic mafia that resists restructuring or change of behaviour, his own pathetic body language. Announcement of cuts in exports. On just one fall of stock exchange he ran to Indonesia to enter IMF program the next day. Meek guy with pathetic decision making.

There will be another IMF program in 3 years time with this govt. not there and dacoit DAr schooling PTI how to handle babus in Pakistan Govt.

Even if Asad Umar had 'attempted' some action to reform or show the same old corruption and govt. employees won't work. The public would've tried to swallow this IMF disaster. Asad Umar is not only implementing the corrupt afsar mafias same old pathetic decisions of taxing basic necessities but following it with inaction and behaving like a puppet in their hands.

Ishaq Dar also deliberated this mafia but handled them better resisted price hikes on basic necessities like gas and actually provided a breather to the common man by managing gas prices. Instead pushed taxes on mobile recharge and other items.

The mafia and pro-US agents have cornered Imran Khan and PTI to do exactly what they cried against for 15+ years. Asad Umar and Dawood like meek pro-American corporate figures are making him look like a joke and farce.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz

Please again don't employ same excuses there were many options available [some of it are available in his parliament speeches when he was in opposition] or even govt. could've shown with their actions IMF was a last resort . Taking on the har**mkhor corrupt bureaucratic mafia that resists restructuring or change of behaviour, his own pathetic body language. Announcement of cuts in exports. On just one fall of stock exchange he ran to Indonesia to enter IMF program the next day. Meek guy with pathetic decision making.

There will be another IMF program in 3 years time with this govt. not there and dacoit DAr schooling PTI how to handle babus in Pakistan Govt.

Even if Asad Umar had 'attempted' some action to reform or show the same old corruption and govt. employees won't work. The public would've tried to swallow this IMF disaster. Asad Umar is not only implementing the corrupt afsar mafias same old pathetic decisions of taxing basic necessities but following it with inaction and behaving like a puppet in their hands.

Ishaq Dar also deliberated this mafia but handled them better resisted price hikes on basic necessities like gas and actually provided a breather to the common man by managing gas prices. Instead pushed taxes on mobile recharge and other items.

The mafia and pro-US agents have cornered Imran Khan and PTI to do exactly what they cried against for 15+ years. Asad Umar and Dawood like meek pro-American corporate figures are making him look like a joke and farce.

You're proving my point with this response. The point I made in the earliest post was about how Pakistanis prefer political bickering over an economic discussion about the facts. You've stated that there were other options.

Forget everything else, I agree that you could have gone to any lender, not just the IMF. But what do you do about the unsustainable current account deficit, dwindling reserves (you need to fix this today, no delay), bad fiscal policy etc. What's your solution?

And please spare me the talk about PTI, PMLN, party political bs, it's a pointless discussion, I couldn't care less about either party or any party.

 

[A.A. Khan]

You're proving my point with this response. The point I made in the earliest post was about how Pakistanis prefer political bickering over an economic discussion about the facts. You've stated that there were other options.

Forget everything else, I agree that you could have gone to any lender, not just the IMF. But what do you do about the unsustainable current account deficit, dwindling reserves (you need to fix this today, no delay), bad fiscal policy etc. What's your solution?

And please spare me the talk about PTI, PMLN, party political bs, it's a pointless discussion, I couldn't care less about either party or any party.

Can't repeat myself again and again which we all know about.
the issue is what has PTI's govt. done to fix the real problem that is the elements within the govt. that blow a huge gap in CAD, push reserves to a minimum, bad fiscal policy decisions every 5 years.

The issue is what Asad Umar has done to protect his middle class constituents. Many voted for change to address and remove the corrupt elements from the Finance ministry and reforms to improve decision making in Pakistan's interest. And now they'll get more help from IMF to continue to bleed us.
What Pakistanis they see is this meek jacka** with hands folded.

who has surrendered and delegated all decisions to the same corrupt mafia that Dar successfully restrained and managed. Bohut bakwaas karta tha parliament main can't even manage his own office let alone the sharks in the finance ministry.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Can't repeat myself again and again which we all know about.
the issue is what has PTI's govt. done to fix the real problem that is the elements within the govt. that blow a huge gap in CAD, push reserves to a minimum, bad fiscal policy decisions every 5 years.

The issue is what Asad Umar has done to protect his middle class constituents. Many voted for change to address and remove the corrupt elements from the Finance ministry and reforms to improve decision making in Pakistan's interest. And now they'll get more help from IMF to continue to bleed us.
What Pakistanis they see is this meek jacka** with hands folded.

View attachment 506613
who has surrendered and delegated all decisions to the same corrupt mafia that Dar successfully restrained and managed. Bohut bakwaas karta tha parliament main can't even manage his own office let alone the sharks in the finance ministry.

Again you've given me lengthy political spiel which I specifically said I wasn't interested in. And you haven't said the alternative yet, where have you posted it.

You're not repeating yourself at all, for the nth time... if your reserves are running out, the previous government has just gone, what options do you have besides a benefactor country gifting you cash (begging bowl, not enough of said cash), going to the likes of the WB or IMF for a loan?

And if you aren't going to implement policies changes and reforms, what will you do in this over the 5 years to deal with the current account imbalance and reliance on imports+bailouts?

Let's hear your solutions, in my opinion, we have no choice in this matter, you seem to think otherwise. Please tell us your ideas.

Again, for the last time, spare me the political angle, it's a waste of my time and yours.

 

[A.A. Khan]

@Jungibaaz

There are several PTI ideas which PTI has somehow forgotten.
PTI talked about overseas Pakistani at length pre-election.
Launching bond overseas Pakistani, overseas Sukuk etc...
An article in dawn suggested an idea , of encouraging private pension savings of overseas Pakistanis to Pakistan.
Attracting the overseas Pakistani to move their private pension pots on similar lines of UK's Recognised Qualified overseas Pension scheme.
Govt. can offer incentives in this regard. Successful Pakistani professionals get great tax incentives in investing in such plans and their employers contribute too.
A voluntary pension scheme in Pakistan, this is just a few there are many more written in dailies and provided to PTI leadership who have done nothing in this regard. Especially on the overseas Pakistani front. Only placed appointed Ministers who have not done anything notable. Building Taskforce pe another task force without end.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz

There are several PTI ideas which PTI has somehow forgotten.
PTI talked about overseas Pakistani at length pre-election.
Launching bond overseas Pakistani, overseas Sukuk etc...
An article in dawn suggested an idea , of encouraging private pension savings of overseas Pakistanis to Pakistan.
Attracting the overseas Pakistani to move their private pension pots on similar lines of UK's Recognised Qualified overseas Pension scheme.
Govt. can offer incentives in this regard. Successful Pakistani professionals get great tax incentives in investing in such plans and their employers contribute too.
A voluntary pension scheme in Pakistan, this is just a few there are many more written in dailies and provided to PTI leadership who have done nothing in this regard. Especially on the overseas Pakistani front. Only placed appointed Ministers who have not done anything notable. Building Taskforce pe another task force without end.

Look these ideas are not bad, and they may help relieve some pressure. As indeed, our large overseas Pakistani contributions via remittances have kept the state's neck above the water for a very long time now.

But look at the issues here, we are not talking about a small shortfall of a few hundred million USD. The current account deficit is almost $18 billion this fiscal year. It was less than $5 billion in 2015-2016. Whereas in the past one could cover a small deficit with remittances and occasional financing, through bonds or sukuk, and loans. Today the deficit is massive, there are some serious internal economic imbalances that need to be dealt with. Also, the sukuk idea was already attempted by the previous government, levering up is no long term solution, it might help now, might be better than the IMF, volume and policies are still an issue.

None of these policies you have mentioned can here and now make up for the $11 billion or so we are trying to secure with the IMF. Your measures may temporarily reduce pressure on reserves to some small degree over 3-5 years of successful implementation. They are NOT going to reverse the effects of current account and budget deficits worth 5% of GDP each. For that we need tough structural reforms and less lax policy, and in the short term we have no choice but to either find benefactors to lend us what they can and go to the IMF if our needs aren't being met.

And in order to make sure that we aren't in this position again after another IMF loan is taken, spending on things like gas subsidies needs to end. Current account deficit needs to shrink, best way to do this long term is to help industries. Debt situation needs to be controlled, both the budget deficit needs to be reduced and credit expansion (private debt) fuelling imports needs to be looked into and reduced. Also, idiotic policies such as Ishaq Dar's idea to keep usd at 100 pkr (over the long term) by burning reserves and forcing the SBP to fight movement needs to be stopped, anyone who attempts this ought to have their brain examined.

So again, none of these policies help us today and save us from default tomorrow, they're good policies, but small in volume and will take time. Here and now, we need cash, if it comes from friendly countries, good, if it comes from the IMF, we will have no choice. And then to make sure this opportunity doesn't go to waste, we need to make tough changes.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Jungibaaz
Jaan ki amaan paaon tu aik baat arz karoun.....?

First of all I am non political person even never voted in my life neither my Father vote anymore....

But after the initial performance and U turns.....it always reminds me a Punjabi folk lore....

Aik Banday ko saza hoi....

Ya tu 100 rupaya dey...ya 100 jotay kha...ya 100 payaz kha...

Becharay ne 50, 50 sab kha liya and poora 100 rupiya b dey diya....I don't know why P.M Khan reminds me of that man.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz
Jaan ki amaan paaon tu aik baat arz karoun.....?

First of all I am non political person even never voted in my life neither my Father vote anymore....

But after the initial performance and U turns.....it always reminds me a Punjabi folk lore....

Aik Banday ko saza hoi....

Ya tu 100 rupaya dey...ya 100 jotay kha...ya 100 payaz kha...

Becharay ne 50, 50 sab kha liya and poora 100 rupiya b dey diya....I don't know why P.M Khan reminds me of that man.

This is isn't just a problem with Imran Khan, the entire system is rotten and incompetent. PTI made huge promises that they have no hope of delivering.

I don't support PTI either, but it's not PTI's fault that they are having to go asking for bailouts again, it was the previous government's tajarba kaar team of idiots. However, PTI have stupidly promised things to people and are set to look like hypocrites for criticising previous governments for doing the same thing now.

I've said it before, Pakistani politics needs to grow up fast, parties need to become more pragmatic, the media needs to become smarter and evolve beyond cross-party shit shovelling and focus on broader issues.

 

[Maarkhoor]

This is isn't just a problem with Imran Khan, the entire system is rotten and incompetent. PTI made huge promises that they have no hope of delivering.

I don't support PTI either, but it's not PTI's fault that they are having to go asking for bailouts again, it was the previous government's tajarba kaar team of idiots. However, PTI have stupidly promised things to people and are set to look like hypocrites for criticising previous governments for doing the same thing now.

I've said it before, Pakistani politics needs to grow up fast, parties need to become more pragmatic, the media needs to become smarter and evolve beyond cross-party shit shovelling and focus on broader issues.

That is why we don't vote because system is corrupted and through this system you can elect only electable not Imandaar exactly what Imran learned during those years but he won the satisfaction that he became P.M chaloo zidd poori hoyi magar ab....Bhai jab yeh fail ho gaya na tou pora youth fail ho jaye gha.....

Pakistan is going down and deep trouble...God forbade I pray k aysa na ho...