Featured PM chaired high level meeting with Services Chiefs and DG ISI - 2020

[Syed1.]

That would be the wrong policy step. You never lay all your cards on the table. Pakistan's interest is in having solid relations with China and amicable/workable relations with the United States (solid relations are not a possibility as our interests diverge in some areas).

Middle of the road relations with the two pre-eminent world powers are a compulsion for us. Pakistan cannot afford to make Americans antagonistic towards the country. That would be playing into the hands of America's regional proxy i.e. India.

Could be a double bluff too, America cannot afford to lose Pakistan as a 'partner' atleast on paper till the time the last US troop is extracted from Afghanistan. Pakistan openly supporting China might invite the Americans to provide some economic and military concessions to Pakistan so that we don't completely go in the Chinese camp. My 2 cents.

 

[GumNaam]

I get a feeling that we're going to cross the loc in the very near future...China enters iok from the north while Pakistan enters iok from the west...

 

[BATMAN]

Why suddenly talks is not the solution of resolving violation of sovereignty issues?
Are we looking at another U turn?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The map is showing some things that should not be made public. Too late now though.

 

[imadul]

Its not an oversight.

The message being sent across is....
-Coord between civil and military hierarchy
-Keeping the seating plan in view, The guys on the left (PAF and ISI) are basically in the dock...they are the presenters giving all input etc to the guys sitting on the right and PM of course.
-DG MO is not the presenter since he is sitting on the right, that too with the Air Chief, which may look odd, but its not, since he is not presenting.

Message... obviously a close watch and monitoring is being done over whatever is happening somewhere. Inputs, since they are coming from PAF and ISI, so probably they are and will be probably the first responders as well. One is for covert response (ISI), the other is overt one (PAF).

Second tier response may come from our army, since the pic shows DG MO opening his ready reckoner, showing an un-identified map. Man incharge of army ops opening his own map signifies that he also has something to say, to add, to suggest...may be independently or in consonance with the ISI and PAF.

meray do aanay.

Military planning is about obfuscation not to tell unless one is bluffing.
Sultan Fatheh said, not a single hair of my beard knows what I will do next.

Everyday Kashmiris are butchered. If we dont consider them our people and our citizens we should let Kashmir go.
Otherwise, stop optics and free Jammu, kashmir, and Laddakh. If Army does not have the تپڑ let's made them run DHA's, their favorite hobby.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I get a feeling that we're going to cross the loc in the very near future...China enters iok from the north while Pakistan enters iok from the west...

the end game

 

[truthseeker2010]

Could be a double bluff too, America cannot afford to lose Pakistan as a 'partner' atleast on paper till the time the last US troop is extracted from Afghanistan. Pakistan openly supporting China might invite the Americans to provide some economic and military concessions to Pakistan so that we don't completely go in the Chinese camp. My 2 cents.

I hope the generals dont take the bait this time.

Military planning is about obfuscation not to tell unless one is bluffing.
Sultan Fatheh said, not a single hair of my beard knows what I will do next.

Everyday Kashmiris are butchered. If we dont consider them our people and our citizens we should let Kashmir go.
Otherwise, stop optics and free Jammu, kashmir, and Laddakh. If Army does not have the تپڑ let's made them run DHA's, their favorite hobby.

You do know the army like status quo.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I hope the generals dont take the bait this time.



You do know the army like status quo.

I also would have taken the this meeting as a "Show" but sir haseeb is there that means two things
1. he has been ordered to make/present possible solution to a problem.
2. may be he had a plan and ACM approved and was presented to house for decision.

things are lively...

 

[diligence]

My hunch is that this time they want to get the Indian navy humiliated. They have already tried the army in 2016 surgical strike, the airforce in 2019 and now its only their Navy left where they probably still have some confidence left, that they can come up on top (without the need for Rafale like equipment).

Pakistan Navy also seemed to be getting some focus recently (COAS visit to Naval War college), so who knows.

But the question is if India deploys an aircraft carrier far offshore and conducts a failed air strike like Balakot, what will b
We PAF's "proportionate" response? Are we again going to lob a couple of stand-off weapons close to the ship to show our intent or actually hit it (which would escalate the things)? In any case it would be much more difficult compared to firing standoff weapons across LOC, staying on our own side, with target distances < ~50KM. The Navy on the other hand would need time to mobilize for response, as it takes time for a ship/submarine to reach a sector (days i assume), as compared to fighter aircraft.

With due respect, here is my take on this.

The enemy tested IA in 2016 and got nothing. Tried IAF in 2019 and got humiliated. Now if the enemy brings in IN aircraft carrier in 2020 and launches a strike (successfully or otherwise) and you are saying Pakistan would drop a few bombs/missiles around the enemy aircraft carrier in retaliation? And still that 'would escalate the things'? That's cowardly.

If enemy launches an attack using aircraft carrier, Pakistan must target and take out that aircraft carrier. 'Things' will escalate in any case regardless you hit their carrier or not. In fact, a serious escalation would have already taken place the moment the enemy launches a strike on Pakistan. So why would we be scared of escalating things? And most importantly if you hit the sh!t out of your enemy (by destroying/disabling or at least damaging aircraft carrier), you stun, demoralize, and punish the enemy and that will force the enemy desist from further escalation. We, in fact, made a mistake by not hitting the enemy in 2016 for their claimed surgical strike. Modi took it for granted to violate Pak sovereignty and got emboldened enough to attack proper Pak territory in 2019. Even the half-hearted Pak response forced the enemy to think twice before falling into its stupidity for the second time. Now if Modi ventures out on the naval front, a real jaw-breaking response will shatter their dreams of launching even a fake surgical strike against Pakistan.

 

[PanzerKiel]

My hunch is that this time they want to get the Indian navy humiliated. They have already tried the army in 2016 surgical strike, the airforce in 2019 and now its only their Navy left where they probably still have some confidence left, that they can come up on top (without the need for Rafale like equipment).

Pakistan Navy also seemed to be getting some focus recently (COAS visit to Naval War college), so who knows.

But the question is if India deploys an aircraft carrier far offshore and conducts a failed air strike like Balakot, what will be PAF's "proportionate" response? Are we again going to lob a couple of stand-off weapons close to the ship to show our intent or actually hit it (which would escalate the things)? In any case it would be much more difficult compared to firing standoff weapons across LOC, staying on our own side, with target distances < ~50KM. The Navy on the other hand would need time to mobilize for response, as it takes time for a ship/submarine to reach a sector (days i assume), as compared to fighter aircraft.

With due respect, here is my take on this.

The enemy tested IA in 2016 and got nothing. Tried IAF in 2019 and got humiliated. Now if the enemy brings in IN aircraft carrier in 2020 and launches a strike (successfully or otherwise) and you are saying Pakistan would drop a few bombs/missiles around the enemy aircraft carrier in retaliation? And still that 'would escalate the things'? That's cowardly.

If enemy launches an attack using aircraft carrier, Pakistan must target and take out that aircraft carrier. 'Things' will escalate in any case regardless you hit their carrier or not. In fact, a serious escalation would have already taken place the moment the enemy launches a strike on Pakistan. So why would we be scared of escalating things? And most importantly if you hit the sh!t out of your enemy (by destroying/disabling or at least damaging aircraft carrier), you stun, demoralize, and punish the enemy and that will force the enemy desist from further escalation. We, in fact, made a mistake by not hitting the enemy in 2016 for their claimed surgical strike. Modi took it for granted to violate Pak sovereignty and got emboldened enough to attack proper Pak territory in 2019. Even the half-hearted Pak response forced the enemy to think twice before falling into its stupidity for the second time. Now if Modi ventures out on the naval front, a real jaw-breaking response will shatter their dreams of launching even a fake surgical strike against Pakistan.

Possible, but in case of IA and IAF incursions, they were against alleged terror camps....in order for carrier strikes to materialize, Indians will have to invent some sort of terrorist-launch-pad-like target along Karachi or some other part of the coast line....they obviously wont be coming to blast Karachi itself with a carrier only.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

May be permission is given ad hoc for 9 firings out of 9 locks this time.....

 

[KeyBORED Warrior]

Welp, that's all folks. It was nice knowing you all but it is time for the endgame... see you in afterlife.

Indeed we belong to Allah, and indeed to Him we will return.

 

[blain2]

Military planning is about obfuscation not to tell unless one is bluffing.
Sultan Fatheh said, not a single hair of my beard knows what I will do next.

Everyday Kashmiris are butchered. If we dont consider them our people and our citizens we should let Kashmir go.
Otherwise, stop optics and free Jammu, kashmir, and Laddakh. If Army does not have the تپڑ let's made them run DHA's, their favorite hobby.

Jazbaat don't win wars or accomplish goals.
Pakistan has to represent Kashmiri interests as best as possible. A basic tenet of national policy is avoidance of war/conflict unless no other options exist. For a smaller power, this is even more complex because in order to further your interests, you don't want to damage everything else.

Also pardon me for saying this but immature digs like references to DHA are misplaced and perhaps out of frustration on account of not understanding the regional and security dynamics, so let's learn to hold such things back when it has nothing to do with the topic on hand.

Pakistan has a military budget of $11B against a neighbor that spends close to $60B a year. Their Army alone gets the same amount that all three of our services get so let that sink in before making such statements about not having "Tappar" etc. Pakistani awaam in general is very poorly informed. Just as an example, the entire DHA valuation cannot even pay for the upgradation/replacement of our aging artillery. It requires billions and this does not even include what we need to do for armor, replacement for the 60 year old G-3 with our infantry and countless other needs the army has, let alone what the PN and PAF need.

Talk of war and winning back Kashmir is easy when you neither have to make decisions nor put your own life on the line. Politicians that are not in power usually resort to such tactics. We should avoid such things.

I hope the generals dont take the bait this time.



You do know the army like status quo.

And I hope you do know that when you have only 17% of what the other side gets to spend on defense then the status-quo is a fairly decent option.

 

[Sal12]

Same useless meetings with no results.

 

[ZAC1]

If its a two front war scenario aircraft carrier will be stationed in SCS.
India and china will start the war then we will come to play our role.
Indian buildup may be for gilgit in leh and ladakh area...i can be wrong.DGMO holding map of some mountain range type area not of karachi.
Before winters this region will be at war.