Plausible Turk-Pak Hybrid Presence Inside Afghanistan

[GumNaam]

Some points to ponder based on the discussion from Mete Yarar, a Turkish defense and political analyst, and my inputs:

• Afghanistan isn't the name of just another country. According to Brzezinski (the US architect of the USSR's fall serviced via Af-Pak), whoever controls Afghanistan controls the world
• Kemal Pasha took an especial interest on Afghanistan (no Pak at that time) even though Turkey was war-torn with virtually zero resources
• Afghanistan is too valuable to leave to the whims of the inexperienced Taliban, who aren't exactly in the best terms with the moderate Afghans. It's the recipe of further foreign-engineered turmoil with huge fallouts onto Pak
• A Turk-Pak "hybrid" presence inside Afghanistan - completely independent of any other powers in the world - can quench the qualms of the warring parties to some extent. Here, the "hybrid" presence means almost invisible behind-the-scene actions with not the nose of a single Pak or Turkish folk bleeding
• Such a presence can balance the other "presences". Flowers filled with honey attract the bees
• Pak and Turkey have got everything to benefit from it with little risk. There's no "free lunch" in this Dunya! As for the "free lunch" in the Ahiret, it needs to be earned while being in this Dunya
• Etc.​

after the u.s. is completely kicked out, Pakistan and Turkey should full force support the Afghan taliban with their air force to remove the ghani regime and the ana so that peace and stability can come to afghanistan with one political ideology in charge instead of having a noodle soup of all the conflicted political interests that will only mount ultimately to chaos.

 

[Behram Khilji]

In fact, the top Turkish analysts, close to the government, also don't want the Turkish presence under the NATO at any pretext. It's like taking a position against the dominant forces inside Afghanistan, not to mention Russia and China. The Afghan war, in its current form, isn't Turkey's war. In fact the NATO is trying 24/7 to unseat Erdo'an...

Hence, a comprehensive agreement with the concerned quarters in Afghanistan is required for a "hybrid" presence...

They came as an occupying force, changing the flag & uniform from NATO to Turkish is not gonna fool no body.

Let them stay, let them die.

after the u.s. is completely kicked out, Pakistan and Turkey should full force support the Afghan taliban with their air force to remove the ghani regime and the ana so that peace and stability can come to afghanistan with one political ideology in charge instead of having a noodle soup of all the conflicted political interests that will only mount ultimately to chaos.

I think afghans have good memory, they don't usually forget that the largest majority of Pakistan that put religion to the side & joined forces of Ranjit Singh & caused harm to Afghans & others who stood with afghans.

Once bitten twice shy.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

They came as an occupying force, changing the flag & uniform from NATO to Turkish is not gonna fool no body.

Let them stay, let them die.


I think afghans have good memory, they don't usually forget that the largest majority of Pakistan that put religion to the side & joined forces of Ranjit Singh & caused harm to Afghans & others who stood with afghans.

Once bitten twice shy.

As for the Turkish forces even within the NATO, the Afghans from all walks of life have showed them enormous respect. They didn't get into any fights with one another. Turkey stays only if it remains as such....

As for those Afgans against Pak, a balancing and persuasive power is also required. If any Afghans want to do harm to Pak then Pak has every right to finish them off....

 

[Behram Khilji]

As for the Turkish forces even within the NATO, the Afghans from all walks of life have showed them enormous respect. They didn't get into any fights with one another. Turkey stays only if it remains as such....

As for those Afgans against Pak, a balancing and persuasive power is also required....

Wether they got in to any fights or not is irrelevant, joint enterprise is the word, they came in collusion with others.

No if & no buts they came as part of NATO, wether they fought or spent time training & constructing doesn't matter, they were part & parcel of the occupiers.

Turkey will be asked to leave politely & if that doesn't happen then they will meet the same fate their coalition buddies met.

No Afghan is against Pak, it's the other way around, people seeking strategic depth, keeping Afghanistan unstable to meet their own agenda & interest.

We the people of kpk & Balochistan will like to see an independent Afghanistan a strong and stable Afghanistan.

Finish them off you say, don't worry the experiment hasn't worked well on us so I doubt it will have much affect on them too.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Wether they got in to any fights or not is irrelevant, joint enterprise is the word, they came in collusion with others.

No if & no buts they came as part of NATO, wether they fought or spent time training & constructing doesn't matter, they were part & parcel of the occupiers.

Turkey will be asked to leave politely & if that doesn't happen then they will meet the same fate their coalition buddies met.

No Afghan is against Pak, it's the other way around, people seeking strategic depth, keeping Afghanistan unstable to meet their own agenda & interest.

We the people of kpk & Balochistan will like to see an independent Afghanistan a strong and stable Afghanistan.

Finish them off you say, don't worry the experiment hasn't worked well on us so I doubt it will have much affect on them too.

Looks like you don't like Turkey or Pak much....

Hopefully, India suits you well....

 

[TNT]

Not a single Pakistani soldier should set foot on afghan land. It will be a recipe for disaster. And frankly i doubt taliban would allow any foreign military. They are well capable to handle the country without outsider's help.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Not a single Pakistani soldier should set foot on afghan land. It will be a recipe for disaster. And frankly i doubt taliban would allow any foreign military. They are well capable to handle the country without outsider's help.

Could they do it absolutely on their own against the USSR or the USA? Some Pak specialists, I am pretty sure, are all over there all the time!!! But, nobody can detect them!!! Hence, it's known as the "Hybrid" model!!! Anyway, it's the job of the General Staffs with the "Imperial" reflexes in their DNAs....

Lest we should forget:

"It'll be written: ISI defeated the USSR in Afghanistan with the USA's help. And, ISI defeated the USA in Afghanistan with the USA's help." - Hamid Gul Pasha

*Even when the Ottoman Empire was going down a one-third of the male population embraced Shehadet. The highest causalities, front-wise, were in the Sham sector
**There are two types of nations - some are awake, and some are sleeping. The sleeping nations find themselves enslaved when they wake up - Gazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha

 

[Taimoor Khan]

In fact, the top Turkish analysts, close to the government, also don't want the Turkish presence under the NATO at any pretext.

This bro, is the crux of the matter. Turkey should NEVER entertain the idea of being present in Afghanistan under NATO flag. Cannot emphasis more on this as it will like stepping on mine feild which will have unintended consequences which in no time will spread between Pakistan and Turkey as well. There must be a trilateral agreement between Taliban-Pakistan-Turkey, with ZERO Nato involvement.

Taliban are just not a Islamist militia but also Pakhtoon nationalists, the later is the main reason the support they enjoy from Pakistan. It's like IRA getting support from Americans becuase of Irish links, but on much larger scale. I mean there are more Pakhtoons in Karachi then in Kabul. Pakistan by default will get sucked into a conflict with parties who find themselves in conflict with Taliban.

Pakistan suffered 20 years of fifth generation warfare against most powerful nations in the planet, just because it was blamed to support Taliban covertly. And there is zero chance of this support diminishing in future. Just because of one factor, the Pakhtoons.

 

[dani92]

Some points to ponder based on the discussion from Mete Yarar, a Turkish defense and political analyst, and my inputs:

• Afghanistan isn't the name of just another country. According to Brzezinski (the US architect of the USSR's fall serviced via Af-Pak), whoever controls Afghanistan controls the world
• Kemal Pasha took an especial interest on Afghanistan (no Pak at that time) even though Turkey was war-torn with virtually zero resources
• Afghanistan is too valuable to leave to the whims of the inexperienced Taliban, who aren't exactly in the best terms with the moderate Afghans. It's the recipe of further foreign-engineered turmoil with huge fallouts onto Pak
• A Turk-Pak "hybrid" presence inside Afghanistan - completely independent of any other powers in the world - can quench the qualms of the warring parties to some extent. Here, the "hybrid" presence means almost invisible behind-the-scene actions with not the nose of a single Pak or Turkish folk bleeding
• Such a presence can balance the other "presences". Flowers filled with honey attract the bees
• Pak and Turkey have got everything to benefit from it with little risk. There's no "free lunch" in this Dunya! As for the "free lunch" in the Ahiret, it needs to be earned while being in this Dunya
• Etc.​

Afghanistan is belonging to the taliban and whatever who oppose them. Also Afghanistan it’s top national security for turkey.

 

[hyperman]

That airport is to maintain the diplomatic presence and the continuing of aid, these silly pakistanis here who don't seem to understand that it is not in their interests to have a situation of a failed state and civil war like in the 90s, b/c it means more refugees fleeing first to Peshawar, then Islamabad, Lahore, and Karachi. It is in there interest for Afghanistan to remain stable and for that to be a factor, the airport which supplies aid needs to be functioning.

Its in Pakistan's interests to cooperate with Turkey and have input and control in the Kabul airport b/c it can be used as leverage in discussions with the Afghan Govt. Not to mention intelligence collection inside afghanistan with regards to Indian movement in and out of the country through the airport and its contacts with the former Northern Alliance. In fact I would be surprised if the Kabul govt would be comfortable with Pakistan holding its lifeline.

 

[Behram Khilji]

Looks like you don't like Turkey or Pak much....

Hopefully, India suits you well....

I don't have problem turkey or people of turkey, however what I do have is a problem with turkey interfering in afghan internal issues.

Can you deny the fact they came as brothers of NATO, a collusion with the occupiers?

Pak is our country but Afghanistan is the ancestral home of half the people of Pakistan, it's our dome of the rock, it's our macca it's our madinah, same people same blood.

I don't think you are in a position to to advise me what is best suitable for me India or elsewhere, but then again little comments from little people

 

[hyperman]

it's our dome of the rock, it's our macca it's our madinah

there is only one mecca/Makkah and Medina and one Bait al Maqdis.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

This bro, is the crux of the matter. Turkey should NEVER entertain the idea of being present in Afghanistan under NATO flag. Cannot emphasis more on this as it will like stepping on mine feild which will have unintended consequences which in no time will spread between Pakistan and Turkey as well. There must be a trilateral agreement between Taliban-Pakistan-Turkey, with ZERO Nato involvement.

Taliban are just not a Islamist militia but also Pakhtoon nationalists, the later is the main reason the support they enjoy from Pakistan. It's like IRA getting support from Americans becuase of Irish links, but on much larger scale. I mean there are more Pakhtoons in Karachi then in Kabul. Pakistan by default will get sucked into a conflict with parties who find themselves in conflict with Taliban.

Pakistan suffered 20 years of fifth generation warfare against most powerful nations in the planet, just because it was blamed to support Taliban covertly. And there is zero chance of this support diminishing in future. Just because of one factor, the Pakhtoons.

I hope the Turkish government won't let it be like a topic for the domestic politics. Dastum is a dubious figure with some influence on the commentators, policy makers etc....

 

[Behram Khilji]

That airport is to maintain the diplomatic presence and the continuing of aid, these silly pakistanis here who don't seem to understand that it is not in their interests to have a situation of a failed state and civil war like in the 90s, b/c it means more refugees fleeing first to Peshawar, then Islamabad, Lahore, and Karachi. It is in there interest for Afghanistan to remain stable and for that to be a factor, the airport which supplies aid needs to be functioning.

Its in Pakistan's interests to cooperate with Turkey and have input and control in the Kabul airport b/c it can be used as leverage in discussions with the Afghan Govt. Not to mention intelligence collection inside afghanistan with regards to Indian movement in and out of the country through the airport and its contacts with the former Northern Alliance. In fact I would be surprised if the Kabul govt would be comfortable with Pakistan holding its lifeline.

Any Afghan refugee regardless of ethnicity is more then welcome in kpk & Balochistan, rest of Pakistan can give cuddles and kisses to all those coming from kartarpur

So please don't worry about refugee they have their kin to look towards.

there is only one mecca/Makkah and Medina and one Bait al Maqdis.

It was a figure of speech, it shows our passion and commitment to ensure it always stands.

 

[hyperman]

Any Afghan refugee regardless of ethnicity is more then welcome in kpk & Balochistan, rest of Pakistan can give cuddles and kisses to all those coming from kartarpur

lol, I think you should separate your emotions with the interests of the state and state policy. There is a burden both financial and social with hosting millions of refugees and there are other issues. The Pakistani foreign minister has said it is not in pakistan's interests to have another refugee wave, many people were able to return to afghanistan after it was made inhabitable and infrastructure was created since the 90s, all that would be destroyed and that creates problems and instability, instability that is neither in the interests of pakistan nor in the interests of your benefactor in Beijing.