photos about PA General and J10C

[帅的一匹]

F-16 has higher fuel faction then J-10. This is the only regret I have for the J-10, back in it's conception it was designed for front line air superiority and interception against Soviet threat, optimized for speed and maneuverability, not so much for range. Now whenever we want to use J-10 for lengthy mission like SCS patrol run we'd see three honking EFTs under her...
I just wish they'd put CFT on J-10, I don't care if top speed drops to M1.8.

Aside from fuel fraction, F-16's wing also has higher L/D for subsonic cruise as well.

J10 VS F16 is always a interesting topic.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yeah I know. But it won't REALLY give PAF a SIGNIFICANT edge.

Hi,

Right now---we can barely produce 18 JF17's a year---. If we get the J10's---that would be another 10 to 18 aircraft a year---.

You mean to say the presence of 10-18 additional 4th + gen aircraft won't give a 'significant' edge---.

Do you have any concept of war---do you have any concept of re-enforcement becoming available at a critical juncture in war---.

Do you have any concept that when 2 JF17's are engaged against 4 enemy aircraft and suddenly 2 J10's come in support of the JF17's---what happens then---.

The J10 brings a parallel increase of force --- for pakistan's military---a concept which is alien to almost all the pakistanis on this forum---including many professionals---and specially Paf officers---because that is where most of the posters get their whims from---and that in itself is shocking---.

F-16 has higher fuel faction then J-10. This is the only regret I have for the J-10, back in it's conception it was designed for front line air superiority and interception against Soviet threat, optimized for speed and maneuverability, not so much for range. Now whenever we want to use J-10 for lengthy mission like SCS patrol run we'd see three honking EFTs under her...
I just wish they'd put CFT on J-10, I don't care if top speed drops to M1.8.

Aside from fuel fraction, F-16's wing also has higher L/D for subsonic cruise as well.

Hi,

I believe that if China was to re-develop the J10 with what it knows now---it would be a similar aircraft to the F16---.

The current J10 design was the best available design for the chinese---and they have done a great job with it---.

 

[enroger]

Hi,

Right now---we can barely produce 18 JF17's a year---. If we get the J10's---that would be another 10 to 18 aircraft a year---.

You mean to say the presence of 10-18 additional 4th + gen aircraft won't give a 'significant' edge---.

Do you have any concept of war---do you have any concept of re-enforcement becoming available at a critical juncture in war---.

Do you have any concept that when 2 JF17's are engaged against 4 enemy aircraft and suddenly 2 J10's come in support of the JF17's---what happens then---.

The J10 brings a parallel increase of force --- for pakistan's military---a concept which is alien almost all the pakistanis on this forum---including many professionals---.



Hi,

I believe that if China was to re-develop the J10 with what it knows now---it would be a similar aircraft to the F16---.

The current J10 design was the best available design for the chinese---and they have done a great job with it---.

Don't get me wrong I love the J-10, just pointing out it's shortcoming in range. While F-16 is more efficient at subsonic cruise, J-10's delta wing is lower drag in transonic and supersonic speed; couple with the fact that J-10 has slightly higher TWR, J-10 will enjoy advantage against F-16 at high speed high altitude regime. This gives J-10 an edge in opening BVR salvo.

Now to compare J-10C against JF-17 blk3, while they might have the same level of avionics and aesa radar, J-10C simply has a larger radome, larger aperture grants greater detection/lock range, again an extremely important feature for BVR.

I'd say J-10C is an extremely potent air superiority platform despite her flaws, this plane especially excel in BVR fight.

J10 VS F16 is always a interesting topic.

Can't help it...

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

In a very verbose post. You are only trying to say J-10 will add numbers to the air force. Nothing more.

Hi,

Right now---we can barely produce 18 JF17's a year---. If we get the J10's---that would be another 10 to 18 aircraft a year---.

You mean to say the presence of 10-18 additional 4th + gen aircraft won't give a 'significant' edge---.

Do you have any concept of war---do you have any concept of re-enforcement becoming available at a critical juncture in war---.

Do you have any concept that when 2 JF17's are engaged against 4 enemy aircraft and suddenly 2 J10's come in support of the JF17's---what happens then---.

The J10 brings a parallel increase of force --- for pakistan's military---a concept which is alien to almost all the pakistanis on this forum---including many professionals---and specially Paf officers---because that is where most of the posters get their whims from---and that in itself is shocking---.



Hi,

I believe that if China was to re-develop the J10 with what it knows now---it would be a similar aircraft to the F16---.

The current J10 design was the best available design for the chinese---and they have done a great job with it---.

At this time PAF's resources are better spent at a medium to long range interim fighter, also JFT blocks and in long term AZM.

 

[MastanKhan]

In a very verbose post. You are only trying to say J-10 will add numbers to the air force. Nothing more.

Hi,

That is the first minimum threshold---that supercedes everything else---.

Suddenly---the power projection has increase multifolds.

If you induct a newer J10---J11---J16---F16---a Grippen---a mig29 updated---or an SU35---an F35---or an F22---the minimum threshold crossed would be the MAXIMUM capability of the JF17---first of all---.

The maximum capabilities of these aircraft would be based on the abilities of each aircraft---.

You kids need to use your brains a little more---.

 

[salman-1]

Adding J10 with be a force multiplier against the enemies. If India manages to use its 80% fleet of just Su-30s it would be a havoc for Paf to just control them. We need numbers too, J10C s can complement F16s at any level.
What if Israel ever joins India in war, as trump type maniacs could trigger any sort of problem in future, then we won't be able to get spares for our F16s even from the black market.
As soon as China joined us in Shaheen exercises, US F15 landed in kalaikunda to balance it and give us a message, we as a Muslim country should leave no option and get the best from where ever we can get.
Afghan Air Force in next 10 years would be getting all high techs from USA. And we would be left with just watching.
Get prepared for multiple enemies in any future war.

 

[MastanKhan]

Adding J10 with be a force multiplier against the enemies. If India manages to use its 80% fleet of just Su-30s it would be a havoc for Paf to just control them. We need numbers too, J10C s can complement F16s at any level.
What if Israel ever joins India in war, as trump type maniacs could trigger any sort of problem in future, then we won't be able to get spares for our F16s even from the black market.
As soon as China joined us in Shaheen exercises, US F15 landed in kalaikunda to balance it and give us a message, we as a Muslim country should leave no option and get the best from where ever we can get.
Afghan Air Force in next 10 years would be getting all high techs from USA. And we would be left with just watching.
Get prepared for multiple enemies in any future war.

Hi,

The US wants to study chinese air tactics---and electronics signatures---commuincation skills---aircraft capabilities---turn around time and everything else that they can snoop onto---.

 

[salman-1]

They already know much about this. Turn around time can be judged through the Russian engine of Su 30,as a single engine might have a better time.
They already put the J10b in the categories comparable to F16s and F18 according to pentagon if you search the Google.
The electronic signature might be a different thing, as New Aesa radars of Chinese origin may be they are after for, but Klj series its an Israeli elta origin they know in and out of it.
They must have also made recce via Taiwan borders for all fighter design electronic signatures.
J10 I don't think might of any concern to them but J20 is more

 

[War Thunder]

Waste of money purchasing this jet

Explained to us must this statement of yours be.

 

[denel]

Don't get me wrong I love the J-10, just pointing out it's shortcoming in range. While F-16 is more efficient at subsonic cruise, J-10's delta wing is lower drag in transonic and supersonic speed; couple with the fact that J-10 has slightly higher TWR, J-10 will enjoy advantage against F-16 at high speed high altitude regime. This gives J-10 an edge in opening BVR salvo.

Now to compare J-10C against JF-17 blk3, while they might have the same level of avionics and aesa radar, J-10C simply has a larger radome, larger aperture grants greater detection/lock range, again an extremely important feature for BVR.

I'd say J-10C is an extremely potent air superiority platform despite her flaws, this plane especially excel in BVR fight.



Can't help it...

indeed. the only concern remains on the engines which have a bad reputation for reliability.

 

[enroger]

indeed. the only concern remains on the engines which have a bad reputation for reliability.

Well, WS-10 has taken a long time to mature but matured it did. It is seeing wide spread use now in not only J-11b and J-16, but also in newer J-10C and even J-20 and J-15. There's no published figure on MTBF, but if PLAAF is conducting high tempo training all year round with it then it cant be that bad.
Of course, if one is still iffy about WS-10, there's always AL-31 to fall back on....

 

[denel]

Well, WS-10 has taken a long time to mature but matured it did. It is seeing wide spread use now in not only J-11b and J-16, but also in newer J-10C and even J-20 and J-15. There's no published figure on MTBF, but if PLAAF is conducting high tempo training all year round with it then it cant be that bad.
Of course, if one is still iffy about WS-10, there's always AL-31 to fall back on....

Indeed, from one article that was the biggest complaint where they have seen entire engine replacements occur with average time between 1200-1800hrs for MTBFs. Even AL-31 have had their challenges. Lets see time will tell

 

[Awan68]

In a very verbose post. You are only trying to say J-10 will add numbers to the air force. Nothing more.


At this time PAF's resources are better spent at a medium to long range interim fighter, also JFT blocks and in long term AZM.

That analysis is based on the short sighted presumption that we must have only 400 fighters, running the JF 17 production line simultaneously with procuring 15-16 j 10's every year for 5 yrs will help us develop an extremely potent airforce on a global not just regional scale. This is possible due to our unique relationship with China who may offer us defered payment for a while. 250 JF 17's, 100 j 10's and 80 odd f 16's in a decade will keep any agressor at bay. After that we can start manufacturing 5th gen and keep increasing the numbers. We need atleast a fleet of 600+ fighters in the next 15 yrs. Pakistani's are one of the bravest and most brilliant nations on earth, we can beat any challenge or invader when push comes to shove as we have demonstrated twice in the past 30 yrs yet despite all that brilliance n bravado we are in a pathetic state as a nation, now what does that tell u? Its simple, we lack vision. That is demonstrated again and again by statements of our most competent institution when they repeatedly utter those stuoid words that Pakistan has no global designs n Pakistan will always mantain minimum deterence. Well fck that, India has started thinking beyond Pakistan, its high time we started it too.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Yes all that may be true but biggest issue is $$$

That analysis is based on the short sighted presumption that we must have only 400 fighters, running the JF 17 production line simultaneously with procuring 15-16 j 10's every year for 5 yrs will help us develop an extremely potent airforce on a global not just regional scale. This is possible due to our unique relationship with China who may offer us defered payment for a while. 250 JF 17's, 100 j 10's and 80 odd f 16's in a decade will keep any agressor at bay. After that we can start manufacturing 5th gen and keep increasing the numbers. We need atleast a fleet of 600+ fighters in the next 15 yrs. Pakistani's are one of the bravest and most brilliant nations on earth, we can beat any challenge or invader when push comes to shove as we have demonstrated twice in the past 30 yrs yet despite all that brilliance n bravado we are in a pathetic state as a nation, now what does that tell u? Its simple, we lack vision. That is demonstrated again and again by statements of our most competent institution when they repeatedly utter those stuoid words that Pakistan has no global designs n Pakistan will always mantain minimum deterence. Well fck that, India has started thinking beyond Pakistan, its high time we started it too.

 

[SQ8]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @TOPGUN

PAF FC-20 and FC-20B