Pentagon: Iran, Russia, Pakistan Continue to Support Afghan Taliban

[LeGenD]

You're over-estimating and rather exaggerating so you're wrong as well. I would suggest watch less of star wars because you've lost touch with the reality. What has stopped USA from doing this to Iran, NK or Syria?

I am not overestimating; I look at these matters through the lens of technicalities and do not let my patriotism cloud my judgement. This mostly boils down to disparity between the R&D sectors and resources of both countries.

People haven't learned a lesson from Operation Neptune Spear unfortunately. Many have bought into propaganda and deception from elements who weren't privy to the operation. In-fact, deception might be deliberate.

My eyes are open. I have studied Abbottabad Commission Report and other reports to piece together various bits and I finally understand what it was all about. Following were the objectives:

1. Assassinate Osama Bin Laden
2. Probe the defenses of Pakistan
3. Determine the prospects of assaulting centers of power and strategic locations across the country, should the need arise.*
4. Prevent PAF from disrupting the operation

*FYI: http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/the-pentagons-secret-plans-to-secure-pakistans-nuclear-arsenal/

TECHNICAL ASPECTS: some kind of spoofing technique was employed against Pakistani radar installations on a massive-scale; helicopters were modified in the manner that they produced different kind of noise that radar installations would not recognize; helicopters adopted Nap-of-the-Earth navigation strategy to reach Abbottabad; a stealthy drone was providing surveillance to helicopters from Abbottabad beforehand; activity across Pakistan was being monitored through satellites and JSTARS surveillance systems.

It was a very sophisticated operation and "mission accomplished."

Do you honestly think that a country like India can replicate the aforementioned feat? HELL NO.

Operation Neptune Spear was just a trailer; we haven't seen the film yet and let us hope that we never get to see it.

Now, most of the comments I come across are devoid of logic, technical explanations and sound reasoning. This is "defense.pk" - not McDonalds.

Many think that war is like a video game and we have lot of guns and we will do this and that. Reality is far more complex and my assessment is that Pakistan is completely ill-equipped to fight an opponent like the US. This is understandable because not only Pakistan is lacking in resources, R&D sector, Industrial capability and strategic depth but Pakistani defenses are largely India-centric. I really appreciate the professionalism of Pakistani armed forces but we also need to understand their limitations.

1. US will not attack Pakistan without appropriate homework. Surveillance and Intel are necessary developments beforehand. FYI: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ica-keeps-watch-over-north-korea-from-the-sky

2. US has a long history of operating in Pakistan and Afghanistan and it has amassed lot of information over the course of years. Operation Neptune Spear was not possible without a deep understanding of Pakistani defenses and how to counter them. People watch Hollywood movies and think that James Bond types are needed to collect information - completely wrong. Much of the information is collected through surveillance assets from space, air and sea at present. NSA and SIBRS are the name of the game; not CIA.

NSA and SIBRS have tools to conduct surveillance in all weather conditions at present. James bond types are important for HUMINT operations in large part.

Do you know that Pakistan moves all components of its nukes in civilian vehicles because they are unlikely to attract attention (or so we think)?

US is also experimenting with micro-drones that look like insects. These drones will formulate an additional layer of surveillance in years to come. These drones can slip through lot of stuff and people won't have a clue.

3. In recent wars, we haven't seen much from USN and this is the scary part. USN represents the largest and most sophisticated power projection tool of the US. It can strike at hundreds of targets at a time on a moment's notice from vast distances, should the need arise.

Sophistication of USN has reached a point that it is not clear what kind of weapon will work against USN vessels "when the game is on." We can learn from China; dispatch a commercial tanker and ram it into the nearest USN vessel.

Jokes aside; Houthi have knocked out a few Saudi and UAE warships with cruise missiles and other weapons but when they attempted to knock out a USN vessel with two cruise missiles; one was intercepted and the other fell into the ocean. Now keep in mind that this USN vessel had made its presence known (deliberately) in order to bait Houthi into attacking it. The USN vessel not only neutralized incoming cruise missiles but took out some Houthi positions in retaliation from its position moment's later.

Now, Saudi Arabia and UAE are known to go after highly sophisticated weapon systems in the markets. Still, one can notice the difference between Sabun and Arial with a careful observation.

4. Surveillance and detection are the most important aspects of high-intensity warfare in modern times, followed-by speed and long-range counter-measures.

Do you know that USN has assets in its inventory that can detect targets the size of "golf ball" from over 4000 miles away?

USN will have a clear picture of movements inside and outside Pakistan during the course of war and its vessels can respond accordingly. Situational awareness is the point.

5. Pakistan is at a disadvantage in all fronts here.

Do we have radar systems that can pinpoint the location of USN vessels deep inside Arabian sea and also see through their electronic countermeasures in the process?

How many ballistic and cruise missiles do we have in our inventory? Not many, I tell you. Majority of them are not suitable for power projection in the maritime environment. During testing, targets are stationary and marked for strikes beforehand.

Babur cruise missile is the only weapon system in our arsenal that can threaten USN vessels in the maritime environment but it will not score a hit through "magic and assumptions." Target acquisition is necessary beforehand which would be extremely complicated under the shadow of a wide-range of electronic countermeasures in effect in the air and sea. And good luck at getting close to USN vessels during the course of high-intensity warfare. They can relatively see FIRST and shoot FIRST.

I am not even talking about the actions of USAF yet. There are so many assets to talk about that I don't have time for this. USAF is also huge and an incredibly sophisticated force. USAF can not only bring high-intensity electronic warfare to Pakistani skies and jam Pakistani radar systems across the country but its combat aircraft can also see FIRST and shoot FIRST. There won't be any dogfights and PAF would be taken out.

6. Last but not the least; an army on the move; sets the momentum of the battlefield.

American technological might has reached a point that their drones are operating on the surface of Mars.

Heck, one of the American probes had a fly-past near Pluto recently. You understand how far Pluto is from Earth and how it rotates around the Sun?

This probe is known as New Horizons and it approached Pluto in 2015: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-123015a-pluto-planets-2016-stamps.html

Every Pakistani should understand that US military might is designed to tackle a near-peer adversary in high-intensity warfare. And there is tremendous asymmetry between the military capability (and resources at the disposal of) of the US and Pakistan. Just draw a comparison between the US and Pakistan in both qualitative and quantitative spectrums and see the difference. This is the ground reality.

People look at Afghan war and think this is it; this is a flawed observation.

Afghan war is political in large part with a small amount of assets committed to it. Do you think that an asymmetric force like Taliban posit any threat to US interests across the world? HELL NO.

Taliban is a regional force and its mandate is limited to Afghanistan. Taliban is being punished for allowing Al-Qaeda Network to establish its foothold in Afghanistan. At present, Al-Qaeda Network has diminished and Taliban has suffered numerous losses over the course of war (thousands of Taliban combatants KIA). US troops in Afghanistan are tasked to provide security to Afghan government and prevent its downfall. At present, Trump administration has directed US troops to reverse all gains made by Taliban since 2014 and also target its sources of finance. Towards this end, numerous actions are taking in Afghanistan. We will see a lot more in 2018.

Anyways, situation in Afghanistan is of least importance to the US because this society is fragmented to the extent that it is a lost cause. No point in pouring lot of resources into the so-called "graveyard of empires." However, a friendly regime is sufficient for fulfillment of long-term interests in the region, if there are any.

----

We need to understand that US has the power to decide the fate of any adversary. Look at the fate of leaders who made the mistake of challenging American interests:

1. Saddam Hussein (KIA)
2. Muammar Qaddafi (KIA)
3. Osama Bin Laden (KIA)
4. Baitullah Mehsud (KIA)
5. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (KIA)
6. Mullah Omar (Cause of death unknown)

US can take out Fat Kim and Khomeini, if it wants to. However, not deemed necessary yet.

Do you know that US had a lock on Fat Kim some days back? FYI: https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...m-Jong-un-ICBM-launch-July-4-Independence-day

What has stopped USA from doing this to Iran, NK or Syria?

Bro, I have a counter-question:

How many more are supposed to die in the US-led War on Terror?

3 regimes taken out; many lives lost; and millions of livelihoods disrupted.

----

When I was a teenager, I was led to believe following myths:

1. If Hitler had Pakistani army at his disposal, he would have conquered the entire world.
2. India lost all wars.
3. US doesn't know how to fight.
4. We split USSR.
5. Hitler is alive.

When I started to do my homework, I learned following:

1. Pakistan army has limited offensive capabilities
2. Operation Gibraltar (Fail)
3. Operation Grand Slam (Fail)
4. Pakistani offensive in the Battle of Asal-Uttar (Fail)
5. Pakistan loosing its EAST wing in 1971 and thousands of troops surrendered to Indian armed forces
6. US-supplied F-16 aircraft taking care of Soviet Jets near Pak border
7. Kargil conflict (Withdrawal)
8. USSR splitting due to its dysfunctional economy and political coup in Moscow led by Boris Yeltsin

----

You also pointed out that I should watch Star Wars less. My counter-argument is that I watch Star Wars not only for entertainment purpose but I am curious about the concepts being displayed in it. I see enormous Starships, advanced droids, lasers and different approaches to combat. I wonder if this is the future.

Star Wars is not just a Sci-Fi saga; it is a culture in the making. It is a source of inspiration for American defense-related projects since the era of Ronald Reagan.

FYI: http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/coldwar/page20.shtml

I tell you that US is working towards ending nuclear MAD with Russia and this will come to pass at some point in the future and many won't even realize it.

The aforementioned footage is not a video-game. The ICBM in question took-off 4500 miles away from the position of GMD interceptors and it was knocked-out in space during the mid-course phase of its flight at a speed of MACH 22 - 24. This ICBM was carrying decoys but the interceptor managed to distinguish actual warhead from the decoys and struck it.

Now, I shall tell you that US is developing a new interceptor which will be capable of knocking out several ICBMs at a time. This is known as MOKV and testing will commence in 2020s.

----

Bro,

I shall make one thing clear that I fear only Allah Almighty and I believe that if harm comes to Pakistan, then this [is] the will of Allah Almighty because Pakistani society is mired in corruption, political instability, pride and lack of commitment to Islamic teachings. In Holy Quran, Allah Almighty has highlighted the transgressions of Jews in great detail and what kind of punishments they were subjected to.

How many Pakistani people have studied Holy Quran properly? Not many.

I sincerely apologize if my remarks sound pessimistic but they are not. I am looking at the bigger picture.

Fear Allah Almighty, acquire knowledge, work hard, shun all EVILS and learn to be humble.

Pakistan needs to turn into a knowledge-intensive society for its betterment and survival in the future. This is the only way forward.

Daangey marna bahaut asaan hai. Batoon mein tu duniya bhi fata ho jatee hai. Leikin reality bahaut different hai.

I tell you that people are clueless about emerging threats here. Global Warming is taking its course and is projected to hit Pakistan hard at some point in the future. Are we preparing for this emerging threat?

FYI: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/pakistan-droughts-2025-warning-water-levels-a7949226.html

Kalabagh dam = ???
Daimer-Basha dam = ???

----

Now, I am getting the impression that US is searching for a new fault-line within Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Taiba is on its radar. Rumors are surfacing that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed is under threat and he might be taken out much like Osama Bin Laden.

If US conducts another Operation Neptune Spear to take out Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, chances are that this move will ignite a new chapter of instability within Pakistan. Conversely, Russian intelligence has warned that ISIS-K in Afghanistan is 10,000 strong at the moment.

I am not sure what US is up to but aforementioned reports are not looking good.

Pakistan has one card to play now: Beijing

Another thing is that something is wrong with Pakistani diplomacy vis-a-vis US.

Diplomacy is a continuous project. American administrations change from time-to-time and Pakistan has to work with all of them. Some administrations will be friendly but some might adopt a hard-line stance against Pakistan due over an issue.

Look at China! In-spite of being a victim of American harassment from time-to-time, Chinese leadership is committed to working with the US. This is how it works.

Chinese President Xi Jinping visited US and spent time with Donald Trump: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/reporters-notebook/xi-jinping-visit

Purpose of this visit was to convey Donald Trump the Chinese side of story in regards to various issues and reach a settlement. They are on good terms since.

Indian Prime Minister also visited US and met with Donald Trump to strengthen bilateral ties. FYI: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougba...onomic-revolution-needs-a-reset/#5a54689b3a6a

Now, tell me! Did a Pakistani Prime Minister schedule a meeting with Donald Trump yet? Why not?

----

Anyways, I do not expect US and Pakistan to collide in a massive way. Not good for the region and this would result in a major tragedy.

 

[Path-Finder]

I am not overestimating; I look at these matters through the lens of technicalities and do not let my patriotism cloud my judgement. This mostly boils down to disparity between the R&D sectors and resources of both countries.

People haven't learned a lesson from Operation Neptune Spear unfortunately. Many have bought into propaganda and deception from elements who weren't privy to the operation. In-fact, deception might be deliberate.

My eyes are open. I have studied Abbottabad Commission Report and other reports to piece together various bits and I finally understand what it was all about. Following were the objectives:

1. Assassinate Osama Bin Laden
2. Probe the defenses of Pakistan
3. Determine the prospects of assaulting centers of power and strategic locations across the country, should the need arise.*
4. Prevent PAF from disrupting the operation

*FYI: http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/the-pentagons-secret-plans-to-secure-pakistans-nuclear-arsenal/

TECHNICAL ASPECTS: some kind of spoofing technique was employed against Pakistani radar installations on a massive-scale; helicopters were modified in the manner that they produced different kind of noise that radar installations would not recognize; helicopters adopted Nap-of-the-Earth navigation strategy to reach Abbottabad; a stealthy drone was providing surveillance to helicopters from Abbottabad beforehand; activity across Pakistan was being monitored through satellites and JSTARS surveillance systems.

It was a very sophisticated operation and "mission accomplished."

Do you honestly think that a country like India can replicate the aforementioned feat? HELL NO.

Operation Neptune Spear was just a trailer; we haven't seen the film yet and let us hope that we never get to see it.

Now, most of the comments I come across are devoid of logic, technical explanations and sound reasoning. This is "defense.pk" - not McDonalds.

Many think that war is like a video game and we have lot of guns and we will do this and that. Reality is far more complex and my assessment is that Pakistan is completely ill-equipped to fight an opponent like the US. This is understandable because not only Pakistan is lacking in resources, R&D sector, Industrial capability and strategic depth but Pakistani defenses are largely India-centric. I really appreciate the professionalism of Pakistani armed forces but we also need to understand their limitations.

1. US will not attack Pakistan without appropriate homework. Surveillance and Intel are necessary developments beforehand. FYI: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ica-keeps-watch-over-north-korea-from-the-sky

2. US has a long history of operating in Pakistan and Afghanistan and it has amassed lot of information over the course of years. Operation Neptune Spear was not possible without a deep understanding of Pakistani defenses and how to counter them. People watch Hollywood movies and think that James Bond types are needed to collect information - completely wrong. Much of the information is collected through surveillance assets from space, air and sea at present. NSA and SIBRS are the name of the game; not CIA.

NSA and SIBRS have tools to conduct surveillance in all weather conditions at present. James bond types are important for HUMINT operations in large part.

Do you know that Pakistan moves all components of its nukes in civilian vehicles because they are unlikely to attract attention (or so we think)?

US is also experimenting with micro-drones that look like insects. These drones will formulate an additional layer of surveillance in years to come. These drones can slip through lot of stuff and people won't have a clue.

3. In recent wars, we haven't seen much from USN and this is the scary part. USN represents the largest and most sophisticated power projection tool of the US. It can strike at hundreds of targets at a time on a moment's notice from vast distances, should the need arise.

Sophistication of USN has reached a point that it is not clear what kind of weapon will work against USN vessels "when the game is on." We can learn from China; dispatch a commercial tanker and ram it into the nearest USN vessel.

Jokes aside; Houthi have knocked out a few Saudi and UAE warships with cruise missiles and other weapons but when they attempted to knock out a USN vessel with two cruise missiles; one was intercepted and the other fell into the ocean. Now keep in mind that this USN vessel had made its presence known (deliberately) in order to bait Houthi into attacking it. The USN vessel not only neutralized incoming cruise missiles but took out some Houthi positions in retaliation from its position moment's later.

Now, Saudi Arabia and UAE are known to go after highly sophisticated weapon systems in the markets. Still, one can notice the difference between Sabun and Arial with a careful observation.

4. Surveillance and detection are the most important aspects of high-intensity warfare in modern times, followed-by speed and long-range counter-measures.

Do you know that USN has assets in its inventory that can detect targets the size of "golf ball" from over 4000 miles away?

USN will have a clear picture of movements inside and outside Pakistan during the course of war and its vessels can respond accordingly. Situational awareness is the point.

5. Pakistan is at a disadvantage in all fronts here.

Do we have radar systems that can pinpoint the location of USN vessels deep inside Arabian sea and also see through their electronic countermeasures in the process?

How many ballistic and cruise missiles do we have in our inventory? Not many, I tell you. Majority of them are not suitable for power projection in the maritime environment. During testing, targets are stationary and marked for strikes beforehand.

Babur cruise missile is the only weapon system in our arsenal that can threaten USN vessels in the maritime environment but it will not score a hit through "magic and assumptions." Target acquisition is necessary beforehand which would be extremely complicated under the shadow of a wide-range of electronic countermeasures in effect in the air and sea. And good luck at getting close to USN vessels during the course of high-intensity warfare. They can relatively see FIRST and shoot FIRST.

I am not even talking about the actions of USAF yet. There are so many assets to talk about that I don't have time for this. USAF is also huge and an incredibly sophisticated force. USAF can not only bring high-intensity electronic warfare to Pakistani skies and jam Pakistani radar systems across the country but its combat aircraft can also see FIRST and shoot FIRST. There won't be any dogfights and PAF would be taken out.

6. Last but not the least; an army on the move; sets the momentum of the battlefield.

American technological might has reached a point that their drones are operating on the surface of Mars.

Heck, one of the American probes had a fly-past near Pluto recently. You understand how far Pluto is from Earth and how it rotates around the Sun?

This probe is known as New Horizons and it approached Pluto in 2015: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-123015a-pluto-planets-2016-stamps.html

Every Pakistani should understand that US military might is designed to tackle near-peer adversaries in high-intensity warfare. And there is tremendous asymmetry between the military capability (and resources at the disposal of) of the US and Pakistan. Just draw a comparison between the US and Pakistan in both qualitative and quantitative spectrums and see the difference. This is the ground reality.

People look at Afghan war and think this is it; this is a flawed observation.

Afghan war is political in large part with a small amount of assets committed to it. Do you think that an asymmetric force like Taliban posit any threat to US interests across the world? HELL NO.

Taliban is a regional force and its mandate is limited to Afghanistan. Taliban is being punished for allowing Al-Qaeda Network to establish its roots in Afghanistan since 2001. At present, Al-Qaeda Network is history and Taliban's sphere of influence has diminished to a large extent due to significant losses over the course of war. US troops in Afghanistan are tasked to provide security to Afghan government and its assets and prevent their downfall. At present, Trump administration has directed US troops to reverse all gains made by Taliban since 2014 and also target its source of finances. Reports are surfacing about assassinations of operatives and drug-production facilities belonging to Taliban. We will see a lot more in 2018.

Anyways, situation in Afghanistan is of least importance to the US because this society is fragmented to the extent that it is a lost cause. No point in pouring lot of resources into the so-called "graveyard of empires." A friendly regime is sufficient for fulfillment of long-term interests in the region, if there are any.

----

We need to understand that US has the power to decide the fate of any adversary. Look at the fate of leaders who made the mistake of challenging American interests:

1. Saddam Hussein (KIA)
2. Muammar Qaddafi (KIA)
3. Osama Bin Laden (KIA)
4. Baitullah Mehsud (KIA)
5. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (KIA)
6. Mullah Omar (Cause of death unknown)

US can take out Fat Kim and Khomeini, if it wants to. However, not deemed necessary yet.

Do you know that US had a lock on Fat Kim some days back? FYI: https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...m-Jong-un-ICBM-launch-July-4-Independence-day

What has stopped USA from doing this to Iran, NK or Syria?

Bro, I have a counter-question:

How many more are supposed to die in the US-led War on Terror?

3 regimes taken out; many lives lost; and millions of livelihoods disrupted.

----

When I was a teenager, I was led to believe following myths:

1. If Hitler had Pakistani army at his disposal, he would have conquered the entire world.
2. India lost all wars.
3. US doesn't know how to fight.
4. We split USSR.
5. Hitler is alive.

When I started to do my homework, I learned following:

1. Pakistan army has limited offensive capabilities
2. Operation Gibraltar (Fail)
3. Operation Grand Slam (Fail)
4. Pakistani offensive in the Battle of Asal-Uttar (Fail)
5. Pakistan loosing its EAST wing in 1971 and thousands of troops surrendered to Indian armed forces
6. US-supplied F-16 aircraft taking care of Soviet Jets near Pak border
7. Kargil conflict (Withdrawal)
8. USSR splitting due to its dysfunctional economy and political coup in Moscow led by Boris Yeltsin

----

You also pointed out that I should watch Star Wars less. My counter-argument is that I watch Star Wars not only for entertainment purpose but I am curious about the concepts being displayed in it. I see enormous Starships, advanced droids, lasers and different approaches to combat. I wonder if this is the future.

Star Wars is not just a Sci-Fi saga; it is a culture in the making. It is a source of inspiration for American defense-related projects since the era of Ronald Reagan.

FYI: http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/coldwar/page20.shtml

I tell you that US is working towards ending nuclear MAD with Russia and this will come to pass at some point in the future and many won't even realize it.

The aforementioned footage is not a video-game. The ICBM in question took-off 4500 miles away from the position of GMD interceptors and it was knocked-out in space during the mid-course phase of its flight at a speed of MACH 22 - 24. This ICBM was carrying decoys with it but the interceptor managed to distinguish actual warheads from the decoys and struck it.

Now, I shall tell you that US is developing a new interceptor which will be capable of knocking out several ICBMs at a time. This is known as MOKV and testing will commence in 2020s.

----

Bro,

I shall make one thing clear that I fear only Allah Almighty and I believe that if harm comes to Pakistan, then this [is] the will of Allah Almighty because Pakistani society is mired in corruption, political instability, pride and lack of commitment to Islamic teachings. In Holy Quran, Allah Almighty has highlighted the transgressions of Jews in great detail and what kind of punishments they were subjected to.

How many Pakistani people have studied Holy Quran properly? Not many.

I sincerely apologize if my remarks sound pessimistic but they are not. I am looking at the bigger picture.

Fear Allah Almighty, acquire knowledge, work hard, shun all EVILS and learn to be humble.

Pakistan needs to turn into a knowledge-intensive society for its betterment and survival in the future. This is the only way forward.

Daangey marna bahaut asaan hai. Batoon mein tu duniya bhi fata ho jatee hai. Leikin reality bahaut different hai.

I tell you that people are clueless about emerging threats here. Global Warming is taking its course and is projected to hit Pakistan hard at some point in the future. Are we preparing for this emerging threat?

FYI: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/pakistan-droughts-2025-warning-water-levels-a7949226.html

Kalabagh dam = ???
Daimer-Basha dam = ???

----

Now, I am getting the impression that US is searching for a new fault-line within Pakistan and Lashkar-e-Taiba is on its radar. Rumors are surfacing that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed is under threat and he might be taken out much like Osama Bin Laden.

If US conducts another Operation Neptune Spear to take out Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, chances are that this move will ignite a new chapter of instability within Pakistan. Conversely, Russian intelligence has warned that ISIS-K in Afghanistan is 10,000 strong at the moment.

I am not sure what US is up to but aforementioned reports are not looking good.

Pakistan has one card to play now: Beijing

Another thing is that something is wrong with Pakistani diplomacy vis-a-vis US.

Diplomacy is a continuous project. American administrations change from time-to-time and Pakistan has to work with all of them. Some administrations will be friendly but some might adopt a hard-line stance against Pakistan due over an issue.

Look at China! In-spite of being a victim of American harassment from time-to-time, Chinese leadership is committed to working with the US. This is how it works.

Chinese President Xi Jinping visited US and spent time with Donald Trump: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/reporters-notebook/xi-jinping-visit

Purpose of this visit was to convey Donald Trump the Chinese side of story in regards to various issues and reach a settlement. They are on good terms since.

Indian Prime Minister also visited US and met with Donald Trump to strengthen bilateral ties. FYI: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougba...onomic-revolution-needs-a-reset/#5a54689b3a6a

Now, tell me! Did a Pakistani Prime Minister schedule a meeting with Donald Trump yet? Why not?

----

Anyways, I do not expect US and Pakistan to collide in a massive way. Not good for the region and this would result in a major tragedy.

 

[LeGenD]

Many years ago or rather just after 9/11 I had the same outlook on the might of the US and today my reasoning and logic has changed. One day I was among some friends and there was a guy who had mental health issues. We were discussing the US and so on forth. This guy in his simple and straightforward reply said "you are scared of America but not Allah SWT" ..."that is shirk".

This is my outlook presently either live a lifetime of a jackal or live like a Lion for a day! Either be the sheep or be the wolf.

Fear is NO policy! This is me talking for the scenario of Pakistan. As for they can destroy this and that. Picking on nations who are not able to fend themselves truly is chivalrous! Truly home of the brave.

Bro,

I respect your outlook but I am a research-oriented individual.

This was the first revelation to Holy Prophet (PBUH) from Allah Almighty: https://quran.com/96

Not funny

That surah is very telling.

 

[VCheng]

Anyways, I do not expect US and Pakistan to collide in a massive way. Not good for the region and this would result in a major tragedy.

Both sides have the wisdom necessary to avoid a head-on conflict. Absolutely. And both sides will find a way to make things between them better to at least the point of delivering a workable solution. Equally absolutely.

 

[Path-Finder]

Bro,

I respect your outlook but I am a research-oriented individual.

This was the first revelation to Holy Prophet (PBUH) from Allah Almighty: https://quran.com/96


Not funny

That surah is very telling.

you are selling us pro american narrative! US the mighty and great be afraid be very afraid. My outlook is very very simple. History is a great teacher if one is willing to its student. It is filled with mighty nations all reduced to rubble.

As for the Surah does it say prostrate to the US?

 

[LeGenD]

you are selling us pro american narrative! US the mighty and great be afraid be very afraid. My outlook is very very simple. History is a great teacher if one is willing to its student. It is filled with mighty nations all reduced to rubble.

As for the Surah does it say prostrate to the US?

I am sorry but this is totally wrong. I have conveyed certain ground realities and it is now up to fellow members to read and learn. However, as expected, some will continue to ignore and believe otherwise. Mindset aisa hai.

In that Surah, Allah Almighty has instructed mankind to read and learn. And not to transgress and become over-confident. However, some people do not want to learn.

No need to fear US but we should fear Allah Almighty because he can punish a society in a number of ways. Learn from the history of Jews.

Mighty nations have fallen apart from time-to-time because they grew complacent, embraced corruption and turned away from Allah's teachings. As an example, Allah Almighty pointed out in Surah al-Rum that Byzantine Empire will loose its strength due to corruption.

What is the greatest problem of Pakistan? Corruption. Over-confidence is second.

Fear Allah Almighty but continue to read and learn.

 

[Meengla]

Both sides have the wisdom necessary to avoid a head-on conflict. Absolutely. And both sides will find a way to make things between them better to at least the point of delivering a workable solution. Equally absolutely.

That's re-assuring. I wish you are absolutely correct.
I don't think it's in the interests of USA to destroy Pakistan--at least not currently. But so long as Trump is the president Pakistan should be very very careful. This guy is too impetuous. I'd say ride it out--give calibrated and proportional responses--not Saddam like chest thumping-- and hope for the next administration to be better--and John Kerry was definitely better for Pakistan. I wish he'd won in 2004 or wins in future.

 

[Path-Finder]

I am sorry but this is totally wrong. I have conveyed certain ground realities and it is now up to others to read and learn. However, as expected, some will continue to ignore and believe otherwise.

In that Surah, Allah Almighty has instructed mankind to read and learn. And not to transgress and become over-confident. However, some people do not want to learn.

No need to fear US but we should fear Allah Almighty because he can punish a society in a number of ways. Learn from the history of Jews.

Mighty nations have fallen apart from time-to-time because they grew complacent, embraced corruption and turned away from Allah's teachings. As an example, Allah Almighty pointed out in Surah al-Rum that Byzantine Empire will loose its strength due to corruption.

What is the greatest problem of Pakistan? Corruption. Over-confidence is second.

Fear Allah Almighty but continue to read and learn.

I must say you are good at your job.

 

[VCheng]

That's re-assuring. I wish you are absolutely correct.
I don't think it's in the interests of USA to destroy Pakistan--at least not currently. But so long as Trump is the president Pakistan should be very very careful. This guy is too impetuous. I'd say ride it out--give calibrated and proportional responses--not Saddam like chest thumping-- and hope for the next administration to be better--and John Kerry was definitely better for Pakistan. I wish he'd won in 2004 or wins in future.

Let me reassure even further: Trump is not the person who decides all by himself. Such major policy decisions are made after careful and due consideration to all aspects, despite media mongering. As I said elsewhere, Pakistan will throw up a few concessions it can easily make without giving up too much. USA will hail them as great achievements and derive some benefits from those concessions. There will be absolutely no need for a major conflict at all. Guaranteed.

 

[Meengla]

Let me reassure even further: Trump is not the person who decides all by himself. Such major policy decisions are made after careful and due consideration to all aspects, despite media mongering. As I said elsewhere, Pakistan will throw up a few concessions it can easily make without giving up too much. USA will hail them as great achievements and derive some benefits from those concessions. There will be absolutely no need for a major conflict at all. Guaranteed.

Bolded part. The POTUS can be impetuous and have been. Especially the current one. I have been following NY Times' accounts of this idiot making policies on the go--only to have his staff do damage control. In fact, the recent move on Jerusalem--something which was not done for 7 decades--is Trump's own very personal decision. Similarly, during the Cuban crisis of 1962, despite advice to be aggressive, JFK made a personal decision to de-escalate--he remembered how he was misled during the Bay of Pigs before.

But, your likely outcome of the current frictions, seem about right. At least I hope so.

 

[VCheng]

Bolded part. The POTUS can be impetuous and have been. Especially the current one. I have been following NY Times' accounts of this idiot making policies on the go--only to have his staff do damage control. In fact, the recent move on Jerusalem--something which was not done for 7 decades--is Trump's own very personal decision. Similarly, during the Cuban crisis of 1962, despite advice to be aggressive, JFK made a personal decision to de-escalate--he remembered how he was misled during the Bay of Pigs before.

But, your likely outcome of the current frictions, seem about right. At least I hope so.

Let me just say that there is a method to this perceived madness. All will work out just fine. In the meantime, just enjoy the clown act till the next curtain.

 

[Verve]

@LeGenD

Has USA ever completely demolished a country that matched our current capabilities - Yes or No?

@Irfan Baloch is spot on. There will be no rain of US cruise missiles on Pakistan. Attack will be via ISIS lead by JSOC, and if and only if that's successful then air warfare.

Attack on Islamabad will be considered an attack on Shanghai - thats what China said. I wonder if US airforce would engage Chinese airforce over Pakistani skies? Going by what happened in Syria, US did not engage Russia! And it was the Russians who broke the backbone of ISiS in Syria, not the USA!

So your statement of 'USA can do anything to Pakistan' has no precedent in the history against a country with our capabilities, just does not add up.

 

[LeGenD]

@Garfield

US has decisively defeated some of the greatest powers in history so I am not sure why you doubt its capability.

Russia did not defeat ISIS in Syria; US did (i.e. Operation Inherent Resolve). ISIS had significant footprint in both Syria and Iraq and only US was in the position to rout it in a decisive manner.

And yes! If China intervenes then this would change the strategic calculus in the region. China is Pakistan's TRUMP CARD in this great game.

 

[VCheng]

And yes! If China intervenes then this would change the strategic calculus in the region. China is Pakistan's TRUMP CARD in this great game.

Trump card? No pun intended I hope.

Let's not be too sure about that. If push came to shove, China will only do what serves its own national interests, no one else's.

 

[LeGenD]

Trump card? No pun intended I hope.

Let's not be too sure about that. If push came to shove, China will only do what serves its own national interests, no one else's.

You might be right but CPEC is in the picture and China is pouring billions of dollars into it. However, it is true that CPEC is one of the legs of the overarching OBOR economic project. In case, one leg is paralyzed, other legs will continue to function.

Still, China can play a meaningful role in bringing US and Pakistan back to the negotiation table.

More importantly, Pakistan needs to revamp its foreign policy vis-a-vis US. Pakistani PM should schedule a meeting with Donald Trump ASAP and address all matters with him. This is how a leader needs to act in a time of diplomatic crises.