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Palestinian Statehood: The UNSC Vote Count

Meengla

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Apparently, not satisfied with the threat of the veto, Americans don't even want the UNSC vote to even come up. Why is that? Because a veto, while effective in short term, will have long term consequences for American interests.

And so bribing and 'diplomacy' begins. Bribes, in case of countries like Gabon.
What a shame! What a shame to deny even the vote.

Currently, the count to make a vote is 8 in favor. 9 are needed.

PS. Good to see that unlike Indian bloggers here the Indian govt. is likely to vote in favor of Pals.

Palestine: Vote-counting on the Security Council (updated) | The Multilateralist


The Palestinian leadership has now made clear that they will seek full UN membership through the Security Council (rather than opting for something less by going directly to to the General Assembly). The ultimate outcome here is not in doubt: if necessary, the United States will use its veto. But it may not come to a veto. If the Palestinians cannot muster nine votes, the 15-member Council cannot act. It's very possible that their supporters will at that point choose not to introduce a formal resolution. From a political perspective, the distinction between a resolution that fails to gain nine votes and one vetoed by the United States is significant, and the United States undoubtedly will be pulling out the diplomatic stops to see that the Palestinians do not muster the magic nine votes.

Here's my current assessment of where the current Council members stand (note: I'm updating this assessment regularly as new information becomes available):

Bosnia and Hercegovina: Very likely to support Palestinian membership. Arab ambassadors to Bosnia have reportedly been lobbying Bosnian leaders, reminding them of their support to Bosnia's Muslims during the 1992-1995 conflict.

Brazil: Likely to support membership. Brazil surprised Washington late last year by recognizing Palestine.

China: Likely to support membership. Beijing has recently indicated its support for the Palestinian membership bid.

Colombia: Likely to oppose membership. Israel has had good relations with Colombia recently and has lobbied the Colombian government to oppose the Palestinian bid.

France: On the fence.

Gabon: On the fence.

Germany: Unlikely to support. Often supportive of Israel, Germany's foreign minister recently signaled his displeasure at the Palestinian membership campaign.

India: Very likely to support membership.

Lebanon: Almost certain to support membership.

Nigeria: Likely to support membership.

Portugal: On the fence.

Russia: Likely to support membership.

South Africa: Likely to support membership

United Kingdom: On the fence. British leaders appear to still be undecided.

United States: will not support membership.

That leaves eight members who are likely to support, four who are probably on the fence, two likely to oppose, and one certain to oppose. As one Security Council diplomat told me this afternoon, this is shaping up to be a very close call. There are several quite important considerations. First, Council members need not take a position; abstention is an option, and one that will work against the Palestinians and their supporters, who need affirmative votes to force a U.S. veto. Second, the European Union (which accounts for four votes) may be in a decisive position if it adopts a common position. Finally, it is well documented that foreign aid has been deployed in the past to sway Council votes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone in the State Department were hurriedly checking on Gabon's aid package to see what leverage might exist.
 
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WTF is wrong with this Indian leadership !!!

What have the Palestinians (however justified their cause is) got to offer to us in scientific,military,economic terms ?

I guess if the Indian leadership is to support Palestine over Israel it must get a written letter of support from Palestine leaders that they will recognize Kashmir as an integral part of India and do the same in future OIC/Arab League meetings. Also they must ask the Palestinian state to disarm Hamas which carries out terrorist attacks in Israel.

Anything short of that is monumental stupidity.
 
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@Gounder,
Palestinians cannot offer anyone, anything!
BTW, Arab (and possibly other Islamic) leaders will closely watch who does what in the UNSC. India gains a lot by having its man-power posted in the Arab countries. A backlash will hurt India much.
Israel? Well, India pays hard-cash for the Israeli weapons.
 
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WTF is wrong with this Indian leadership !!!

What have the Palestinians (however justified their cause is) got to offer to us in scientific,military,economic terms ?

I guess if the Indian leadership is to support Palestine over Israel it must get a written letter of support from Palestine leaders that they will recognize Kashmir as an integral part of India and do the same in future OIC/Arab League meetings. Also they must ask the Palestinian state to disarm Hamas which carries out terrorist attacks in Israel.

Anything short of that is monumental stupidity.


Its called independent foreign policy !

Yes! Interests do dominate it , but they don't have to be outright overt.

Nothing wrong with what GOI is doing.
 
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The clock is ticking for the future history of the World......Oooooh the fork in the road is so close i can feel it in my bones.
 
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WTF is wrong with this Indian leadership !!!

What have the Palestinians (however justified their cause is) got to offer to us in scientific,military,economic terms ?

I guess if the Indian leadership is to support Palestine over Israel it must get a written letter of support from Palestine leaders that they will recognize Kashmir as an integral part of India and do the same in future OIC/Arab League meetings. Also they must ask the Palestinian state to disarm Hamas which carries out terrorist attacks in Israel.

Anything short of that is monumental stupidity.

we have supported the Arab cause for over 5 decades . it has not affected our relationship with Israel . on a larger scale of things, votes like these seldom affect out relationship with the other party . there is usually a quid quo pro .
 
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@Gounder,
Palestinians cannot offer anyone, anything!

Then supporting them over Israel really gives India no benefits right ? Here we are talking about a country that is one of the world's best in science and mil technology, gives us access to many products which other countries dont and moreover came to our help in Kargil at a time when we needed them most.

I dont hate the Palestinians, but I love my country more than I love them.

BTW, Arab (and possibly other Islamic) leaders will closely watch who does what in the UNSC. India gains a lot by having its man-power posted in the Arab countries. A backlash will hurt India much.

What have the Arab countries and other Islamic countries have to offer India other than oil ? Well that they are supplying even now and I dont think they wll stop that even if India votes against the Palestinian state.

BTW what do you mean by "Man power posted in Arab countries". ?

Israel? Well, India pays hard-cash for the Israeli weapons.

Yeah but there are many technologies that they share with us which other countries dont have or refuse to share.India-Israel mil relationship goes much beyond just seller-buyer relationship.

On the whole, its nothing personal, just business.
 
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Then supporting them over Israel really gives India no benefits right ? Here we are talking about a country that is one of the world's best in science and mil technology, gives us access to many products which other countries dont and moreover came to our help in Kargil at a time when we needed them most.

I dont hate the Palestinians, but I love my country more than I love them.



What have the Arab countries and other Islamic countries have to offer India other than oil ? Well that they are supplying even now and I dont think they wll stop that even if India votes against the Palestinian state.

BTW what do you mean by "Man power posted in Arab countries". ?



Yeah but there are many technologies that they share with us which other countries dont have or refuse to share.India-Israel mil relationship goes much beyond just seller-buyer relationship.

On the whole, its nothing personal, just business.

---------- Post added at 04:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 AM ----------



You dont have to be independent @ the cost of the interests.

And I dont know what is so un-indepependent about supporting Israel as they are the ones who can offer most to India.

the only advice i can give you my dear friend is to read up on diplomacy . do a little research and you will know not to have knee jerk reactions.
 
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Its called independent foreign policy !

Yes! Interests do dominate it , but they don't have to be outright overt.

Nothing wrong with what GOI is doing.

You dont have to be independent @ the cost of the interests.

And I dont know what is so un-indepependent about supporting Israel as they are the ones who can offer most to India.

we have supported the Arab cause for over 5 decades . it has not affected our relationship with Israel . on a larger scale of things, votes like these seldom affect out relationship with the other party . there is usually a quid quo pro .

I dont think so.

When we supported the Arab cause we did not even have bilateral relationship with Israel. We (the Govt) loathed them. But what the Arbis (courtest Muse) gave us ? Just betrayal in the form of wartime aide to Pakistan that included fighters, yearly resolutions supporting Pakistani stance on Kashmir etc.

Why cant we recognize who our allies are and be steadfast in supporting them ?
 
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@Gounder,
Indian stance is based on cold, calculated interests! Nothing less than that.
Israel will NOT penalize or single out India when most of the world itself is supportive of the Pal state. Israel will fully understand Indian stance. Your own countrymen are affirming that above.
By man-power, I meant man-power. If tomorrow the Arab countries decide to ditch Indians working amidst them then will be some loss to Indians. I don't rule it out at all.
As @Mosamania says: A fork on the road has arrived. Too bad American Congress is too beholden to the 'Lobby' to do anything about it. The rest of the world is not. And so I am pleased to see India 'doing the right thing' and not be on the side of the eventually losing side.
 
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the only advice i can give you my dear friend is to read up on diplomacy . do a little research and you will know not to have knee jerk reactions.

What is the "knee-jerk" reaction I am advocating ?

I am asking you guys to separate chaff from corn.

Just tell me in a single word - who has got more to offer to India - Israel or Palestine (including the Arab countries). ?
 
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What is the "knee-jerk" reaction I am advocating ?

I am asking you guys to separate chaff from corn.

Just tell me in a single word - who has got more to offer to India - Israel or Palestine (including the Arab countries). ?

i have insomnia , what do you have for being up so late.?
any way diplomacy is not about what you will get out from another . i know at your age things seem black and white to you but they really aren't . with age will realization dawn .
also for the love of god i cant figure out how you think you know better than the mandarins in the MEA.
 
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@Gounder,
Indian stance is based on cold, calculated interests! Nothing less than that.
Israel will NOT penalize or single out India when most of the world itself is supportive of the Pal state. Israel will fully understand Indian stance. Your own countrymen are affirming that above.

Why take the risk ? Support a hawk like Lieberman decides enough is enough and asks for military technology to India stopped who will replace them ?

By man-power, I meant man-power. If tomorrow the Arab countries decide to ditch Indians working amidst them then will be some loss to Indians. I don't rule it out at all.

The Gulf countries dont have that much spine. Seriously.

As @Mosamania says: A fork on the road has arrived. Too bad American Congress is too beholden to the 'Lobby' to do anything about it. The rest of the world is not. And so I am pleased to see India 'doing the right thing' and not be on the side of the eventually losing side.

If India is intent on doin the right thing - it should do only after a guarentee from the Palestinians leaders that they will recognize Indian position on Kashmir and will advocate it in OIC/Arab League and must disarm Hamas as to support our ally Israel.

In that way all win - Palestine, India and Israel.
 
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So there are eight almost-certain votes for a UNSC vote.
I don't know who will be the 9th one, if any. Colombia and/or France?
 
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i have insomnia , what do you have for being up so late.?

I'm in a place where the sun has still not set

any way diplomacy is not about what you will get out from another . i know at your age things seem black and white to you but they really aren't . with age will realization dawn .

Can you explain what is diplomacy then ? And really you have no idea what my age is :)

also for the love of god i cant figure out how you think you know better than the mandarins in the MEA.

What makes them special than me ? Do they have horns on the heads. And am I not to advocate my position thinking that they know better. Thats the definition of a dictatorship we see on the Northern borders.
 
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