Pakistan's diplomacy vis-à-vis Turkey

[A$HU]

This is a random post with some genuine questions. Please its a request dont troll. Please. Pretty please.
So I was just going through the list of members of MTCR and saw Turkey's name there and was confounded as to why did they support our bid in MTCR when according to some Pakistani members even if china changed its stance in NSG , Turkey would always be the last man standing for them. Now turkey is also there in Wassenar Arrangement and Australia group and again I dont see them having any reservations about India's membership. So can we conclude from this that if we are somehow able to get China on board, Turkey wouldn't want to be the lone thorn to India's NSG bid.
Wassenar and MTCR I think are more important than NSG since joining these groups would really disturb the conventional arms technology and even industrial technological balance. Pakistan should have tried to scuttle India's bid or at least tried to delay it. I think Pakistan foreign policy had a huge lapse here. Pakistan did whatever it could do to scuttle India's NSG bid and this was really a commendable job. Being successful or not doesn't matter when you've tried best to your ability which Pakistan did in this case and eventually succeeded in delaying India's bid or possibly stalling it. My two cents are that Pakistan should have atleast protested India's entry to MTCR and (Wassenar later this year) even if they didn't want to use diplomatic support from Turkey and other nations.
My two questions are
1) Why didn't pakistan give enough attention to MTCR and Wassenar or is it just relying on China for its interest?
2) Will Turkey become the villain if its the last one against the majority in NSG ( MTCR suggests it wont)?

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

This is a random post with some genuine questions. Please its a request dont troll. Please. Pretty please.
So I was just going through the list of members of MTCR and saw Turkey's name there and was confounded as to why did they support our bid in MTCR when according to some Pakistani members even if china changed its stance in NSG , Turkey would always be the last man standing for them. Now turkey is also there in Wassenar Arrangement and Australia group and again I dont see them having any reservations about India's membership. So can we conclude from this that if we are somehow able to get China on board, Turkey wouldn't want to be the lone thorn to India's NSG bid.
Wassenar and MTCR I think are more important than NSG since joining these groups would really disturb the conventional arms technology and even industrial technological balance. Pakistan should have tried to scuttle India's bid or at least tried to delay it. I think Pakistan foreign policy had a huge lapse here. Pakistan did whatever it could do to scuttle India's NSG bid and this was really a commendable job. Being successful or not doesn't matter when you've tried best to your ability which Pakistan did in this case and eventually succeeded in delaying India's bid or possibly stalling it. My two cents are that Pakistan should have atleast protested India's entry to MTCR and (Wassenar later this year) even if they didn't want to use diplomatic support from Turkey and other nations.
My two questions are
1) Why didn't pakistan give enough attention to MTCR and Wassenar or is it just relying on China for its interest?
2) Will Turkey become the villain if its the last one against the majority in NSG ( MTCR suggests it wont)?

Thanks for asking this......If you ask me, we could have stopped India's entry into MTCR through Turkey but don't know why we didn't. Pakistan has lot of friends in ME. While everyone knows our relationship with Turkey and China are exceptional.....So Pakistan is very close to China, however, still, we have good relations with West. So Pakistan doesn't rely solely on China for protecting its interests.....

your 2nd question.......Turkey is not alone in NSG opposing India's bid...There are almost 15 countries more who are opposing India's entry. So, even if we assume Turks will be alone in opposing India's bid in NSG, which is highly unlikely....I don't think Turks will give a single fuc if anyone considers them villain or hero...They are very proud people and never bents so easily....

I don't exactly have an idea that whether Turks will like to oppose India's bid alone or not in NSG, but given such close relationship b/w us and them. It can be said they'll oppose India's bid without caring they are alone or villain....

 

[AUz]

How does MTCR threatens us again?

Can any indian explain?

 

[-SINAN-]

I didn't understand this situation....lot's of synonyms that i don't know, a subject that i'm unaware of...but you can be sure that Turkey won't leave Pakistan alone. Even if we have to stand against the whole world (like we did some many times in our history)

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

I didn't understand this situation....lot's of synonyms that i don't know, a subject that i'm unaware of...but you can be sure that Turkey won't leave Pakistan alone. Even if we have to stand against the whole world (like we did some many times in our history)

I hope that time never comes on you when you are facing whole world just for us......We won't like it at all and will definitely feel shame and embarrassment.....Thanks for your nice comment....Thank you..

 

[A$HU]

I didn't understand this situation....lot's of synonyms that i don't know, a subject that i'm unaware of...but you can be sure that Turkey won't leave Pakistan alone. Even if we have to stand against the whole world (like we did some many times in our history)

Good to know that but where was Turkey when India got the NSG waiver in 2008. It could have stopped India getting more than 90% of the benefits of NSG without even becoming a member. But it didn't. Why did you leave Pakistan high and dry back then? Because the main dent to the nuclear balance was that NSG waiver. Now what you have stopped/delayed is the mere official recognition.

 

[-SINAN-]

Good to know that but where was Turkey when India got the NSG waiver in 2008. It could have stopped India getting more than 90% of the benefits of NSG without even becoming a member. But it didn't. Why did you leave Pakistan high and dry back then? Because the main dent to the nuclear balance was that NSG waiver. Now what you have stopped/delayed is the mere official recognition.

I don't know about the situation , i don't know about the synonyms and i don't know if you are telling the truth or not. Hence i won't comment...all you need to know is, they are our brothers an we will continue to stand with them no matter what.

 

[A$HU]

Thanks for asking this......If you ask me, we could have stopped India's entry into MTCR through Turkey but don't know why we didn't. Pakistan has lot of friends in ME. While everyone knows our relationship with Turkey and China are exceptional.....So Pakistan is very close to China, however, still, we have good relations with West. So Pakistan doesn't rely solely on China for protecting its interests.....

your 2nd question.......Turkey is not alone in NSG opposing India's bid...There are almost 15 countries more who are opposing India's entry. So, even if we assume Turks will be alone in opposing India's bid in NSG, which is highly unlikely....I don't think Turks will give a single fuc if anyone considers them villain or hero...They are very proud people and never bents so easily....

I don't exactly have an idea that whether Turks will like to oppose India's bid alone or not in NSG, but given such close relationship b/w us and them. It can be said they'll oppose India's bid without caring they are alone or villain....

I know only of 10 countries who are opposing us and 38 supporting us. But the thing is out of those 10 only 2 nations are opposing due to Pakistan, China and Turkey. While there is a strong possibility that India can change the mind of 8 opposing countries with the help of USA and other allies. Changing China's stance is real Achilles heel for Indian diplomacy and if that is achieved I dont think Turkey would play the spoilsport as there is no evidence in the past which suggests that.

 

[cerberus]

I don't know about the situation , i don't know about the synonyms and i don't know if you are telling the truth or not. Hence i won't comment...all you need to know is, they are our brothers an we will continue to stand with them no matter what.

Really your Govt doesn't care enough

Don't give me BS you cannot go against US all together

Now don't start giving me small examples of inrelvant things

You know what I'm talking about

 

[A$HU]

How does MTCR threatens us again?

Can any indian explain?

MTCR - India can get any missile related technology(engines,shields,UAVs,UCAVS,Space related technologies etc) from the west which aren't sold to any non MTCR country.
Wassenar Arrangement - India can get any technology which has dual use nature and can be used for developing conventional arms . This is the most important group.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Really your Govt doesn't care enough

Don't give me BS you cannot go against US all together

Now don't start giving me small examples of inrelvant things

You know what I'm talking about

Are u blind? Don't you see he has already said that he doesn't know much about this NSG saga. It is not his subject. Stop quoting him, u rude fool......

I know only of 10 countries who are opposing us and 38 supporting us. But the thing is out of those 10 only 2 nations are opposing due to Pakistan, China and Turkey. While there is a strong possibility that India can change the mind of 8 opposing countries with the help of USA and other allies. Changing China's stance is real Achilles heel for Indian diplomacy and if that is achieved I dont think Turkey would play the spoilsport as there is no evidence in the past which suggests that.

Lets see what happens !!!

 

[A$HU]

Are u blind? Don't you see he has already said that he doesn't know much about this NSG saga. It is not his subject. Stop quoting him, u rude fool......

Please friends keep discussion civil. @cerberus he doesn't know much stop quoting him.

 

[cerberus]

Are u blind? Don't you see he has already said that he doesn't know much about this NSG saga. It is not his subject. Stop quoting him, u rude fool......



Lets see what happens !!!

NSG was pure technical oppose by countries

NSG is not open to Non NPT members that sole major reason that NSG China opposed Indian membership bid.


But due to our great track record we got wavier from NSG in 2008

There is no reason India would not get into MTCR
Or Wassenaar arrangement or Australian group since we already importing uranium from these countries

Turkey is Nato country and it is bound by it compulsion to agreeing Of US policy for one matter

Pakistan is inrelvant country

It's neither in G20 or BRICS or MTCR

And it cannot even manage to gain consent from more than 2 countries China and Turkey to support it bid in NSG

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

NSG was pure technical oppose by countries

NSG is not open to Non NPT members that sole major reason that NSG China opposed Indian membership bid.


But due to our great track record we got wavier from NSG in 2008

There is no reason India would not get into MTCR
Or Wassenaar arrangement or Australian group since we already importing uranium from these countries

Turkey is Nato country and it is bound by it compulsion to agreeing Of US policy for one matter

Pakistan is inrelvant country

It's neither in G20 or BRICS or MTCR

And it cannot even manage to gain consent form more than 2 countries China and Turkey to support it bid in NSG

Forget about Wassenar arrangement or Australian group, First become member of NSG then we'll talk about it....

Gud luck...

 

[cerberus]

Forget about Wassenar arrangement or Australian group, First become member of NSG then we'll talk about it....

Gud luck...

We will future right now waiver in enough for

As for China going well and into MTCR it has to face India

We will make the bargain

Pakistan will be like always be a spectator in great games