Pakistanis sink deeper in debt with 28% per capita increase

[Windjammer]

That's evil indeed... thanks for sharing!

Any views on subject matter?

What, how the Great Wall of China was built. !!!

 

[Sulemanms202]

bhai... har cheez ki price badha kar hi kuch karna hai to administrative role khatam kardo saray or sirf controls walay roles rakho or agar sirf price badha kar hi sub kuch hi karna hai tou bhai yeah saray naam nihad self proclaimed experts ki kia zarorat hai

 

[BATMAN]

What, how the Great Wall of China was built. !!!

about the OP... do you believe any of it?

 

[Sulemanms202]

yar.... expert hoti hi wo hai jo application ko rule par na lagay balkay rule say application define karay..

masla yeah hai humaray beshtar tax or economic experts by the book sochtay hein or bookish batein kartay hein..

humaray maslay koi economist/tax expert/judge hi kar sakta hai jo bookish economic theories say zara oper ja kar sochay

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Why a surprise when dollar price was increased by 30%. Debt was bound to increase. Applying Dar formula of keeping the dollar down will decrease the debt but consequences will be terrible.

 

[Sulemanms202]

targets/ tax rates/ duties humaray maslay hal nahi karein gein humein apni economic cycle ko hi redefine karna paday ga pora or jis mein hum judiciary system kay beghair kuch b na kar skein

abay bhai yar had hogi.... loog recession mein bhi ameer ho jatay hein or humaray haan kay nikamon say aik agricultural economy nahi chalai ja rahi..

afsoos hota hai!

 

[BATMAN]

bhai... har cheez ki price badha kar hi kuch karna hai to administrative role khatam kardo saray or sirf controls walay roles rakho or agar sirf price badha kar hi sub kuch hi karna hai tou bhai yeah saray naam nihad self proclaimed experts ki kia zarorat hai

Public help poor at every signal crossing, public pay zakat, pay education bills, health bills, utility connection fees, utility bills, pay direct and indirect taxes, do charity, pay for their vehicle taxes, road taxes, property tax, agriculture tax, construction tax, petrol tax, entertainment tax, grocery tax, water tax, bank cash withdrawal tax, income tax, import duty, airport tax, only thing that is not taxed is money laundering.

While administration is zero, security is zero, health sector is zero, corruption has been multiplied with factor 100, if that's how riyasat Medina should be than i request to try riaysat Mecca model!

 

[Syed1.]

Obviously debt will increase.... Musharraf left debt at $30b then Sharifs and Zardaris took over and took it to $100b in just 10 years Alhumdulilah.

 

[BATMAN]

Why a surprise when dollar price was increased by 30%. Debt was bound to increase. Applying Dar formula of keeping the dollar down will decrease the debt but consequences will be terrible.

Well technical matters are debatable, but surprise element can't be missed.
aae gi Imran bane gi naya Pakistan

 

[ziaulislam]

Well technical matters are debatable, but surprise element can't be missed.
aae gi Imran bane gi naya Pakistan

well, i was expecting a Zimbabwe like situation, and all most all people even with basic 5th grade knowledge were expecting dollar to hit 200+ and cumulative inflation to pass 100% due to darism..most are surprised how it stabilized at 150..we probably will have to thank the arabs for their 20 billion dollar bail out and govt stringent and unpopular measures..

regardless bhutto or marium will be back in 2023 and we will have another crisis in 2028... which means army will either take over or engineer a similar party win in south punjab (like with IK)..though for engineering you require a base..i wonder where will that come from? (IK had KPK and karachi)..obviously i dont see PML Q as a replacement ....so my bets will be a martial law in 2028 after economic crisis ...

why do i say so..

last 30 years these parties(PML N & PMLQ) have done the same..i.e print notes, drop interest rates below inflation rate to create an artificial fiscal space for an artificial boom that leads to doom..


why would they not do it again..of course they will..
so its pretty easy to predict the future..
the reason why i doubt any one smart will invest in pakistan..
untill the future is clear noone in their right mind will ...
future looks pretty grim because of the overwhelming support of zardari in rural & liberal class of sindh and nawaz has in central punjab..because middle class of pakistan likes freebies...

ultimately there is limited number of times you can overdose on drugs without dying..let see what happens in over dose of 2027-8 each time we have overdose it has become worse...
it required minor itnervention in 2008, major surgery in 2013 and prolong care in ICU in 2018..

24 billion fiscal crisis..next time if its 30+ expect a demonetization as we saw in zimbabawe

 

[blueazure]

Whenever a youthia try to sell austerity rubbish, trust he's taking same injections, which were ''given'' to Imran Khan.

ppl conveniently forget how central bank 'prints' money to manage M0 and M1 supply and that exchange rate is merely a demand supply ratio of how much cash is in circulation .

devaluation is merely the act of printing more money to manage external debts with the side effects of causing inflation and basically killing off the buying power . and to manage that, the govt has to borrow more and make utilities more expensive ( aka gas and elec rate hikes)

PTI could have avoided all this by simply screwing courts and going all after nawaz and zardari and recover 10-20 bn that was promised but alas,it let them go on court pressure. alternatively, riko diq gold reserves could have been used to boost pak ruppe or some sort of 'equity swap' arrangement made with russia or china ( whose central banks are the largest buyers of gold) to manage the cash crisis . FFS, individuals go bankrupt, not countries .

sad part is that PTI economic team is composed of western educated /paid hitmen and imran himself( having no real economic knowledge) has been trapped by these ' Keynesian experts' backed by western powers aka IMF .

excessive govt intervention and control, over regulation of banks and manipulation of interest rates is all but killing business here and sadly, no one is looking at the social impacts ( ppl out of jobs , unrest etc)

instead of catching crooks ,recovering the looted wealth, govt is screwing the ordinary working class to pay more taxes ( on top of nearly double elec and gas tarrifs) .


god help us now

 

[BATMAN]

well, i was expecting a Zimbabwe like situation, and all most all people even with basic 5th grade knowledge were expecting dollar to hit 200+ and cumulative inflation to pass 100% due to darism..most are surprised how it stabilized at 150..we probably will have to thank the arabs for their 20 billion dollar bail out and govt stringent and unpopular measures..

regardless bhutto or marium will be back in 2023 and we will have another crisis in 2028... which means army will either take over or engineer a similar party win in south punjab (like with IK)..though for engineering you require a base..i wonder where will that come from? (IK had KPK and karachi)..obviously i dont see PML Q as a replacement ....so my bets will be a martial law in 2028 after economic crisis ...

why do i say so..

last 30 years these parties(PML N & PMLQ) have done the same..i.e print notes, drop interest rates below inflation rate to create an artificial fiscal space for an artificial boom that leads to doom..


why would they not do it again..of course they will..
so its pretty easy to predict the future..
the reason why i doubt any one smart will invest in pakistan..
untill the future is clear noone in their right mind will ...
future looks pretty grim because of the overwhelming support of zardari in rural & liberal class of sindh and nawaz has in central punjab..because middle class of pakistan likes freebies...

ultimately there is limited number of times you can overdose on drugs without dying..let see what happens in over dose of 2027-8 each time we have overdose it has become worse...
it required minor itnervention in 2008, major surgery in 2013 and prolong care in ICU in 2018..

24 billion fiscal crisis..next time if its 30+ expect a demonetization as we saw in zimbabawe

Dar or no dar, mismanagement of Imran Khan ministers is not defend-able or is it?
Again, as i said technical matters are debatable and i see nothing wrong in any move army make to save Pakistan, it's part of their duty. In current century, frontier wars will be fought in conjunction with economic hitman. Sooner army and public realize it, better we will be! (in case of doubts educate your self on Ajit Devil doctrine)
Last but not least if Dar has done something wrong, than he should be trialed for that crime and so forth. However cases like, iqama, tax evasion of few individuals, would be like fooling our selves.
If we need to fix future, transparency must be introduced in each transaction, where govt. pay even a penny, it can be as simple as paying salary to a street cleaner to inviting foreign firms for business! Can we blame NS for the misappropriation in dispensing key state level jobs to dubious individuals, while some hiring are clear conflict of interests. Neither NS is holding IK and ministers for being transparent in their spending and authority executions!

ppl conveniently forget how central bank 'prints' money to manage M0 and M1 supply and that exchange rate is merely a demand supply ratio of how much cash is in circulation .

devaluation is merely the act of printing more money to manage external debts with the side effects of causing inflation and basically killing off the buying power . and to manage that, the govt has to borrow more and make utilities more expensive ( aka gas and elec rate hikes)

PTI could have avoided all this by simply screwing courts and going all after nawaz and zardari and recover 10-20 bn that was promised but alas,it let them go on court pressure. alternatively, riko diq gold reserves could have been used to boost pak ruppe or some sort of 'equity swap' arrangement made with russia or china ( whose central banks are the largest buyers of gold) to manage the cash crisis . FFS, individuals go bankrupt, not countries .

sad part is that PTI economic team is composed of western educated /paid hitmen and imran himself( having no real economic knowledge) has been trapped by these ' Keynesian experts' backed by western powers aka IMF .

excessive govt intervention and control, over regulation of banks and manipulation of interest rates is all but killing business here and sadly, no one is looking at the social impacts ( ppl out of jobs , unrest etc)

instead of catching crooks ,recovering the looted wealth, govt is screwing the ordinary working class to pay more taxes ( on top of nearly double elec and gas tarrifs) .


god help us now

You clearly seems to have better understanding of economics than me, i said it because what you wrote make sense to a layman like me, but when ministers of Imran Khan come on tv to defend economic crisis by blaming it on Dar who actually lift the economy, and he was later replaced by Miftah! Point is we are educated people, we'll get convince when we see it makes sense i.e. 1+1=2.

Can you tell me why is that govt. Pakistan received so many foreign $ and still Pak currency is depreciating, shouldn't the cycle should be reversed as it was the case during Shaukat Aziz era!

 

[blueazure]

Can you tell me why is that govt. Pakistan received so many foreign $ and still Pak currency is depreciating, shouldn't the cycle should be reversed as it was the case during Shaukat Aziz era!

to be fair to pti and ik, they DID inherit a deficit and debt liabilities

however, to manage this, they have taken on MORE debt ( vs going after crooks etc)


its like using one credit card to pay of the another


the inflow of USD is saudi and UAE money + IMF money + 2bn or so T bill money aka hot money

obviously, all this borrowed money has to be returned( with interest) . so to do so, gas and elec tarrifs are hiked, taxes increased . the rest is managed by further printing more pkr aka depreciation .

all i know is that GPD growth has trickled to 2% and manufacturing out put has shrunk , the textile exports have barely jumped 3 percent .


where to raise the money to pay these debts !

 

[BATMAN]

to be fair to pti and ik, they DID inherit a deficit and debt liabilities

however, to manage this, they have taken on MORE debt ( vs going after crooks etc)


its like using one credit card to pay of the another


the inflow of USD is saudi and UAE money + IMF money + 2bn or so T bill money aka hot money

obviously, all this borrowed money has to be returned( with interest) . so to do so, gas and elec tarrifs are hiked, taxes increased . the rest is managed by further printing more pkr aka depreciation .

all i know is that GPD growth has trickled to 2% and manufacturing out put has shrunk , the textile exports have barely jumped 3 percent .


where to raise the money to pay these debts !

But as long we are not returning Saudi billions, it's a headache for next govt. Still we have regular influx of remittances, common sense says PKR strengthen!

 

[ziaulislam]

Dar or no dar, mismanagement of Imran Khan ministers is not defend-able or is it?
Again, as i said technical matters are debatable and i see nothing wrong in any move army make to save Pakistan, it's part of their duty. In current century, frontier wars will be fought in conjunction with economic hitman. Sooner army and public realize it, better we will be! (in case of doubts educate your self on Ajit Devil doctrine)
Last but not least if Dar has done something wrong, than he should be trialed for that crime and so forth. However cases like, iqama, tax evasion of few individuals, would be like fooling our selves.
If we need to fix future, transparency must be introduced in each transaction, where govt. pay even a penny, it can be as simple as paying salary to a street cleaner to inviting foreign firms for business! Can we blame NS for the misappropriation in dispensing key state level jobs to dubious individuals, while some hiring are clear conflict of interests. Neither NS is holding IK and ministers for being transparent in their spending and authority executions!



You clearly seems to have better understanding of economics than me, i said it because what you wrote make sense to a layman like me, but when ministers of Imran Khan come on tv to defend economic crisis by blaming it on Dar who actually lift the economy, and he was later replaced by Miftah! Point is we are educated people, we'll get convince when we see it makes sense i.e. 1+1=2.

Can you tell me why is that govt. Pakistan received so many foreign $ and still Pak currency is depreciating, shouldn't the cycle should be reversed as it was the case during Shaukat Aziz era!

yup technical things dont matter..i know that by personal experience
frequently doctors get beaten up by family after they arrive dead because we couldnt revive them..
same is our people mindset..
nobody asked why did they ate the poison or did drugs,,they just blame the doctors
the doctors counter this by stating patient is going to die even if he is likley to survive..

1. you cant reverse the currency no one including USA or china does it..
the short answer is you need inflation to keep the money in the economy

2. even during the last year of shaukat aziz we resounded to money printing (state bank lending) this was done to generate fiscal space for development plus to fund the huge oil and electricity deficit that was bought by oil hitting 150$ in international market which also led to global financial crisis

3. on Dar and who will preside the trial, lahore high court? Dar didnt do anything illegal, he simply followed the will of the people (awam ko short term releif chaya) to us ney note chap key awam ko releif dey deya

4. Imran khan has not done any major reforms..
he is afraid and frequently backs up from reforms like tax reforms, investment and law reforms..

this is due to hurdles from his own party people(most of whom are idiots), judiciary(blocking laws like the mortgage law), the cenate basically hasnt passed a single law and lastly the retail and business sector which is 80%of our economy who demand upon govt subsidies...i doubt he will be able to fix things so fast..as whole system is corrupt..things take time..


however, if people understand that there are no shortcuts to development and that "free money" doesnt exist than we have some hope..the world is unfortunately a capitalist market and we have to choose what we want..if we want money we will have to walk the world way..china learned that in 1990s..today there is no bigger capitalist country than china ruled by so called communist party

everyone should pay for themselves apart from the very poor, its as simple as that..

therefore, there should be subsidies for general public..if you cant afford it dont use..i never used a AC or bought a car when i was in Pakistan, hell frequently i had no electricity....we paid 2 trillion in subsidies in power generation over last decade just to keep the oil mafia happy ..did the 30% poor people who dont have electricity got any benefit from that?

to be fair to pti and ik, they DID inherit a deficit and debt liabilities

however, to manage this, they have taken on MORE debt ( vs going after crooks etc)


its like using one credit card to pay of the another


the inflow of USD is saudi and UAE money + IMF money + 2bn or so T bill money aka hot money

obviously, all this borrowed money has to be returned( with interest) . so to do so, gas and elec tarrifs are hiked, taxes increased . the rest is managed by further printing more pkr aka depreciation .

all i know is that GPD growth has trickled to 2% and manufacturing out put has shrunk , the textile exports have barely jumped 3 percent .


where to raise the money to pay these debts !

what do you expect ..the exports to rise in day..is it that easy in cut throat competition..it takes years after corrections of fundamentals

why GDP and LSM has dropped..duh..how many cars are now made and sold? consumption has been curtailed so will the local consumption based manufacturing.

but do we want consumption based note printing GDP growth? ...we have tried in 5 times..it doesnt work ..eygpt tried a dozen times..see where it is now