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Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan"India Is a Fascist State, Inspired by the Nazis"
Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan, 68, speaks about his country's role in global politics, his admiration for the Chinese leadership and the similarities he shares with U.S. President Donald Trump.
Interview Conducted by Susanne Koelbl
30.10.2020, 14.58 Uhr
Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan with DER SPIEGEL reporter Susanne Koelbl in Islamabad: "There is no way I will ever relent."
On a rise in the heart of Islamabad is the imposing residence of Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan, 68. It is here where he receives his visitors, and he enters the room wearing white traditional dress with a blue vest. The once easygoing cricket world champion and playboy has transformed himself into an earnest statesman who is currently facing numerous problems simultaneously. Pakistan's economy is struggling badly, the opposition has united against Khan and the powerful military, with which he cooperates closely, is severely restricting his room to maneuver. Currently, Khan's government is mediating the peace talks between the U.S. government and the Taliban, which have been hampered by repeated outbreaks of violence. The only glimmer of hope is provided by the relatively low numbers of coronavirus infections in the country.
ANZEIGE
DER SPIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, with around 6,700 deaths from COVID-19 in Pakistan, a country of 220 million inhabitants, in addition to far fewer infections, your country seems to be doing better than your neighbors. What are you doing differently?
Khan: Almost half of the Pakistani people live on daily and weekly wages. Therefore, we did a smart lockdown. We only restricted areas if we found that there was an outbreak, and we did not stop our supply lines. We did not stop the agriculture sector and quickly reopened the construction sector, because that's what employs the most people in the urban areas. That saved us. India instead restricted people to their homes in poor areas - a complete lockdown. They have a lot of poverty now, same in Iran.
DER SPIEGEL: How many people are tested for the coronavirus every week? Does your government have a clear picture of the pandemic in the country?
Khan: Around 180,000 to 200,000 people are getting tested every week and our national coordination team looks at multiple statistics and has a very clear composite picture of the epidemic. From peak numbers in June, we saw a steady decline in cases, positivity and deaths across the country until late August. Now, we're hoping to survive the second wave.
DER SPIEGEL: The U.S. election is just a few days away. Who do you think has a better chance of winning, Donald Trump or Joe Biden?
Khan: Joe Biden is in front in the opinion polls, but Donald Trump is very unpredictable, because he's not like normal politicians. He plays by his own rules.
DER SPIEGEL: It sounds like you admire that.
Khan: As a politician who started his own party and then built it up into the biggest party in Pakistan over 22 years, I also had to do a lot of out-of-the-box-thinking. We were the first to rely on social media and the first to attract the youth to our rallies.
DER SPIEGEL: Do you see similarities between yourself and Trump?
Khan: We had to be very unorthodox, and in some ways, Donald Trump does too.
DER SPIEGEL: Who you would prefer to work with?
Khan: What we really want from the U.S. is evenhanded treatment with respect to India, especially with the dispute in Kashmir. The region is a hotspot, it could flare up at any time. That's why we expect the U.S., as the strongest country in the world, to be even handed, whoever becomes president. The U.S. thinks India will contain China, which is a completely flawed premise. India is a threat to its neighbors, to China, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and to us. It has the most extremist, racist government on the subcontinent. It is a fascist state, inspired by the Nazis in the 1920s and '30s.
Imran Khan (holding the flag) after Pakistan won the cricket World Cup in 1992: "I had to do a lot of out-of-the-box thinking."
Foto: Steve Holland / AP
DER SPIEGEL: That is a rather extreme comparison. Are you not exaggerating?
Khan: Read the writings of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the intellectual forerunner of Prime Minister* Narendra Modi's party. They openly admired Hitler. The Nazis wanted to get rid of the Jews. The RSS wanted to rid India of the Muslims.
DER SPIEGEL: You have said on several occasions that Washington forced Pakistan into a misguided war in neighboring Afghanistan. Can you explain that for us?
Khan: Pakistan had nothing to do with the terror attacks on 9/11. Al-Qaida was in Afghanistan. After 9/11, we should not have allowed our army to become involved in the war. I opposed it from day one. The U.S. put pressure on us, and the military dictator Pervez Musharraf succumbed to that pressure.
DER SPIEGEL: At the time, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates were the only countries supporting the Taliban. Osama bin Laden had already been designated an international terrorist by then and the Taliban were hosting him.
Khan: Don't forget, Osama bin Laden was a hero in the 1980s. He supported the Mujahedeen against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and he was backed by both the CIA and Pakistan.
DER SPIEGEL: That was long before 9/11. Much had changed after that.
Khan: It was Pakistan's right to recognize the Taliban, but Pakistan had no control over the Taliban. When Pakistan asked the Taliban to hand over Osama Bin Laden to the Americans, they refused.
DER SPIEGEL: Trump officially thanked you recently for helping bring the Taliban to the negotiating table. How did you manage to do so if, as you claim, Pakistan has no close links with them?
Khan: With 2.7 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan, we have a certain amount of leverage, which we used to the utmost. I am very pleased that we succeeded.
DER SPIEGEL: It looks as though the Taliban are on the cusp of a military victory over the Kabul government after securing a peace deal with the U.S. At the same time, they are pretending to negotiate with government representatives. Is your neighboring country of Afghanistan at risk of sliding back into a dictatorship run by brutal fundamentalists?
Khan: I'm afraid no one can predict which way things will go in Afghanistan right now. What I can say is that after Afghanistan, the country that wants peace most is Pakistan. We have lost 70,000 people in this conflict, and our tribal areas adjacent to the Afghan border have been devastated in the last 15 years. Half of the people in these areas have become internally displaced, about 1.5 million of them - victims of the conflict between the Pakistan Taliban and the army. From day one of my government, we have been fostering dialogue.
DER SPIEGEL: You recently received a well-known radical Mujahedeen leader from Afghanistan, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. You allegedly discussed a power-sharing deal between him and the Taliban once the U.S. troops withdraw. What was your advice for him?
Khan: Gulbuddin Hekmatyar took part in the elections in Afghanistan and he accepts the constitution of Afghanistan.
Full interview here:
www.spiegel.de
Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan, 68, speaks about his country's role in global politics, his admiration for the Chinese leadership and the similarities he shares with U.S. President Donald Trump.
Interview Conducted by Susanne Koelbl
30.10.2020, 14.58 Uhr
Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan with DER SPIEGEL reporter Susanne Koelbl in Islamabad: "There is no way I will ever relent."
On a rise in the heart of Islamabad is the imposing residence of Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan, 68. It is here where he receives his visitors, and he enters the room wearing white traditional dress with a blue vest. The once easygoing cricket world champion and playboy has transformed himself into an earnest statesman who is currently facing numerous problems simultaneously. Pakistan's economy is struggling badly, the opposition has united against Khan and the powerful military, with which he cooperates closely, is severely restricting his room to maneuver. Currently, Khan's government is mediating the peace talks between the U.S. government and the Taliban, which have been hampered by repeated outbreaks of violence. The only glimmer of hope is provided by the relatively low numbers of coronavirus infections in the country.
ANZEIGE
DER SPIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, with around 6,700 deaths from COVID-19 in Pakistan, a country of 220 million inhabitants, in addition to far fewer infections, your country seems to be doing better than your neighbors. What are you doing differently?
Khan: Almost half of the Pakistani people live on daily and weekly wages. Therefore, we did a smart lockdown. We only restricted areas if we found that there was an outbreak, and we did not stop our supply lines. We did not stop the agriculture sector and quickly reopened the construction sector, because that's what employs the most people in the urban areas. That saved us. India instead restricted people to their homes in poor areas - a complete lockdown. They have a lot of poverty now, same in Iran.
DER SPIEGEL: How many people are tested for the coronavirus every week? Does your government have a clear picture of the pandemic in the country?
Khan: Around 180,000 to 200,000 people are getting tested every week and our national coordination team looks at multiple statistics and has a very clear composite picture of the epidemic. From peak numbers in June, we saw a steady decline in cases, positivity and deaths across the country until late August. Now, we're hoping to survive the second wave.
DER SPIEGEL: The U.S. election is just a few days away. Who do you think has a better chance of winning, Donald Trump or Joe Biden?
Khan: Joe Biden is in front in the opinion polls, but Donald Trump is very unpredictable, because he's not like normal politicians. He plays by his own rules.
DER SPIEGEL: It sounds like you admire that.
Khan: As a politician who started his own party and then built it up into the biggest party in Pakistan over 22 years, I also had to do a lot of out-of-the-box-thinking. We were the first to rely on social media and the first to attract the youth to our rallies.
DER SPIEGEL: Do you see similarities between yourself and Trump?
Khan: We had to be very unorthodox, and in some ways, Donald Trump does too.
DER SPIEGEL: Who you would prefer to work with?
Khan: What we really want from the U.S. is evenhanded treatment with respect to India, especially with the dispute in Kashmir. The region is a hotspot, it could flare up at any time. That's why we expect the U.S., as the strongest country in the world, to be even handed, whoever becomes president. The U.S. thinks India will contain China, which is a completely flawed premise. India is a threat to its neighbors, to China, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and to us. It has the most extremist, racist government on the subcontinent. It is a fascist state, inspired by the Nazis in the 1920s and '30s.
Imran Khan (holding the flag) after Pakistan won the cricket World Cup in 1992: "I had to do a lot of out-of-the-box thinking."
Foto: Steve Holland / AP
DER SPIEGEL: That is a rather extreme comparison. Are you not exaggerating?
Khan: Read the writings of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the intellectual forerunner of Prime Minister* Narendra Modi's party. They openly admired Hitler. The Nazis wanted to get rid of the Jews. The RSS wanted to rid India of the Muslims.
DER SPIEGEL: You have said on several occasions that Washington forced Pakistan into a misguided war in neighboring Afghanistan. Can you explain that for us?
Khan: Pakistan had nothing to do with the terror attacks on 9/11. Al-Qaida was in Afghanistan. After 9/11, we should not have allowed our army to become involved in the war. I opposed it from day one. The U.S. put pressure on us, and the military dictator Pervez Musharraf succumbed to that pressure.
DER SPIEGEL: At the time, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates were the only countries supporting the Taliban. Osama bin Laden had already been designated an international terrorist by then and the Taliban were hosting him.
Khan: Don't forget, Osama bin Laden was a hero in the 1980s. He supported the Mujahedeen against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and he was backed by both the CIA and Pakistan.
DER SPIEGEL: That was long before 9/11. Much had changed after that.
Khan: It was Pakistan's right to recognize the Taliban, but Pakistan had no control over the Taliban. When Pakistan asked the Taliban to hand over Osama Bin Laden to the Americans, they refused.
DER SPIEGEL: Trump officially thanked you recently for helping bring the Taliban to the negotiating table. How did you manage to do so if, as you claim, Pakistan has no close links with them?
Khan: With 2.7 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan, we have a certain amount of leverage, which we used to the utmost. I am very pleased that we succeeded.
DER SPIEGEL: It looks as though the Taliban are on the cusp of a military victory over the Kabul government after securing a peace deal with the U.S. At the same time, they are pretending to negotiate with government representatives. Is your neighboring country of Afghanistan at risk of sliding back into a dictatorship run by brutal fundamentalists?
Khan: I'm afraid no one can predict which way things will go in Afghanistan right now. What I can say is that after Afghanistan, the country that wants peace most is Pakistan. We have lost 70,000 people in this conflict, and our tribal areas adjacent to the Afghan border have been devastated in the last 15 years. Half of the people in these areas have become internally displaced, about 1.5 million of them - victims of the conflict between the Pakistan Taliban and the army. From day one of my government, we have been fostering dialogue.
DER SPIEGEL: You recently received a well-known radical Mujahedeen leader from Afghanistan, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. You allegedly discussed a power-sharing deal between him and the Taliban once the U.S. troops withdraw. What was your advice for him?
Khan: Gulbuddin Hekmatyar took part in the elections in Afghanistan and he accepts the constitution of Afghanistan.
Full interview here:
Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan: "India Is a Fascist State, Inspired by the Nazis"
Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan, 68, speaks about his country's role in global politics, his admiration for the Chinese leadership and the similarities he shares with U.S. President Donald Trump.
