Pakistani OPV / And Marine Security Doctrine

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

THE BIG PICTURE
Pakistan/Coast Line Protection and Patrol
​

Soon we wll be recieving our 1500 Tons Marine time security Ship(s) from China
https://quwa.org/2017/06/08/photos-emerge-pakistans-first-1500-ton-patrol-vessel/

Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW) is responsible for constructing one of the two 1,500-ton MPVs. KSEW set the ship’s keel in January.

Little twin cousins Hangol and Bosol Joined Marine Security just recently

Recent Discussion about OPV ships coming to Pakistan Navy soon from Friendly europe
The dutch ships are of coruse , a OPV , just above level of a Coast guard ship requiring enhancements in future but it helps solve a needed requirement for a dependable ship for long duration

Reference Thread
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/keel...v-i-for-pakistan-navy-held-in-romania.555234/


Arrival of small Patrol Ships such as Swift Ship/Corvette ships from USA
Reference:
https://quwa.org/2017/10/31/pakistan-orders-two-corvettes-us-based-swiftships/

In an interview with Mönch, Swiftships CEO Shehraze Shah stated that the Pakistan Navy placed an order for two 75m corvettes from the Louisana-based shipbuilding company. Shah also stated that the Pakistan Navy (PN) is a customer of the Swiftships’ 11m Special Operation Craft Riverine (SOC-R), which the PN has deployed for counterinsurgency (COIN) and drug-interdiction missions.

Similarly arrival of Patrol/Corvette ships from turkey is an anticipated deal
The objective is clear fight against piracy at sea and drug capture

The arrival of multiple Short sized Corvettes should signal a strengthening of the Marine security initiative for Pakistan Navy , and also providing necessary help to Merchant ships in our own waters

Considering that Italy also makes few Corvette class ships , would be fantastic to get few units ordered from Italy as well to grow already a very depandable Partnership in Defence purchase between two Nations

Italian Ships?

Going from 0 Corvettes to ~ (5+) Units plus is a modest improvement no doubt specaially close to Pakistan's own waters

When views together with the Z.A.R.B Coastal Defence Strategy one can see that Pakistan can certainly improve it's potential for coastal defence with the present improvements we are seeing materialize before us

Further Read
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...ssile-test-firing.555020/page-7#post-10445712

 

[ziaulislam]

in current fiscal situation, if PN is able to complete its 4 naval destroyers from china, 4 milgem(with some airdefence?), 4 swift coverttes along with its subs before 2030 ..than it would be no less than miracle

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I likely suspect we have not yet examined the Avenue of Ships from

> Italy (Used/New)
> Korea
> Indonesia
> Spain

The coopertion with Dutch & Turkey on Corvette Patrol ship is encouraging


Our defence deals with Italy are fairly decent

 

[Viking 63]

PN is going for to many different types of ships and this could turn into a logistics and maintenance nightmare.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well here is choices we have

#1 Have No ships in Corvette / Patrol role
#2 Diverisy defence relation with different countries and build new business

Also technically having different platforms enhances our knowledge of different system and we are actually improving local Engineer's knowledge to some extent

The Navy and Marine Time Security force should also create space for Super Fast Responder Boats (20-25 Units)

These must be inducted in numbers in Pakistan Marine / Navy Fast responder Units
It is top notch platform

 

[khanasifm]

Few points if the image is true rep of what being delivered then

No 76 mm gun but 20-30 mm cannon
Two water cannon on the top red color
Two 20-30 mm covering rear

Heli

http://www.janes.com/article/79555/damen-begins-work-on-first-of-two-opvs-for-pakistan-navy

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the marine time security ships re indeed meant for Rescue and Firefighter role at sea which battleships like f22p cannot perform

 

[araz]

Well the marine time security ships re indeed meant for Rescue and Firefighter role at sea which battleships like f22p cannot perform

The recent acquisition of the Damen class has made me think. Is PN likely to diversify its design into a hybrid one with design elements from the Dutch craft, built locally with Chinese material and help. This to me makes good use of the technology which one acquires. If this happens we can then go out and procure defensive equipment/ radars from multiple sources ending up with a design that we are used to and is low observable one. This is what makes sense to me at least. The new ship yard being built with Chinese help would come in very handy in this regards.It would allow us to utilize and gather all the technologies we have acquired so far for a complete in house development in the late 20s.
A

 

[syed_yusuf]

Few points if the image is true rep of what being delivered then

No 76 mm gun but 20-30 mm cannon
Two water cannon on the top red color
Two 20-30 mm covering rear

Heli

http://www.janes.com/article/79555/damen-begins-work-on-first-of-two-opvs-for-pakistan-navy

even BN patrol crafts are armed with SSM and 76mm guns. i think PN should seriously consider to install 76MM gun on these OPV's. torpedo canisters could be installed laters under the deck. enough space there. PN should also consider installing FL-3000N 23 cell anti air missiles system from get-go. even for policing and patroling 76mm gun and fl-3000N will be very handy to provide protection and firepower. i consider these 2 as defensive weapons. ssm and anti sub elements could be installed later if need be. i hope PN is not shorting it self again.

similarly, swift class if comes to fruition should also be up gunned with harpoons, anti sub elements from get go.

 

[khanasifm]

even BN patrol crafts are armed with SSM and 76mm guns. i think PN should seriously consider to install 76MM gun on these OPV's. torpedo canisters could be installed laters under the deck. enough space there. PN should also consider installing FL-3000N 23 cell anti air missiles system from get-go. even for policing and patroling 76mm gun and fl-3000N will be very handy to provide protection and firepower. i consider these 2 as defensive weapons. ssm and anti sub elements could be installed later if need be. i hope PN is not shorting it self again.

similarly, swift class if comes to fruition should also be up gunned with harpoons, anti sub elements from get go.

Not buying as naval vessel but for maritime support to monitor and support new maritime traffic due to commercial activity of gawadar

It’s not the same as having naval vessels

End of story

 

[syed_yusuf]

Not buying as naval vessel but for maritime support to monitor and support new maritime traffic due to commercial activity of gawadar

It’s not the same as having naval vessels

End of story

Haveing 76mm gun does not make it a naval Corvette otherwise give it to pmsa

It fits better with them

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The recent acquisition of the Damen class has made me think. Is PN likely to diversify its design into a hybrid one with design elements from the Dutch craft, built locally with Chinese material and help. This to me makes good use of the technology which one acquires. If this happens we can then go out and procure defensive equipment/ radars from multiple sources ending up with a design that we are used to and is low observable one. This is what makes sense to me at least. The new ship yard being built with Chinese help would come in very handy in this regards.It would allow us to utilize and gather all the technologies we have acquired so far for a complete in house development in the late 20s.
A

Generally the ships built at KSEW are done so with material kits provided by the OEM. There isn’t much room to do hybrids with mixing source material. We’d need to design our own ship (or at least get the IP from somewhere) to pull it off.

 

[araz]

Generally the ships built at KSEW are done so with material kits provided by the OEM. There isn’t much room to do hybrids with mixing source material. We’d need to design our own ship (or at least get the IP from somewhere) to pull it off.

The real question then is"is this what is being planned?"The reason I ask is that the design element is the most trickiest bit. If you have the design is it then possible to modulate it to your requirements? I am just throwing the ball in the court to see how this can progress. I base it on the slight modifications done to the Azmat class. Can this be experimented with other classes as well?
A

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The real question then is"is this what is being planned?"The reason I ask is that the design element is the most trickiest bit. If you have the design is it then possible to modulate it to your requirements? I am just throwing the ball in the court to see how this can progress. I base it on the slight modifications done to the Azmat class. Can this be experimented with other classes as well?
A

I'm not sure there's much going on in terms of modifying the Azmat FAC. They basically altered the AShM load and maybe integrated different electronics. For a ship that's a grade above cosmetic changes tbh ... for bespoke work we'd be talking about our own actual design that can handle not just our choice of electronics and weapons, but materials (e.g. specific steel grades, composites, etc) and propulsion to achieve very targeted RCS and speed goals, respectively.

To be brutally frank, if we had been design focused from the start, we'd have avoided the MILGEM, Type 054A and even F-22P. Instead, we should have gone for other used ships (in place of the OHPs) and then stewarded a new domestically driven frigate design (ala JF-17 of the seas) with an experienced shipbuilder. Maybe China. Maybe the Dutch.

Ultimately, build a 2,400 to 3,000-ton design that inherently balances our cost concerns with a proper munitions load accounting for every one of our needs. But ultimately, aim for a $250 m per ship price point and then build 8-12 of those over 15-20 years. Yes, we'd still be importing the steel, engines, etc, but if it's our design we can choose where each of these specific inputs come from (i.e. not get stuck by OEM choices, pick the most cost-effective inputs available).

 

[Armchair]

The recent acquisition of the Damen class has made me think. Is PN likely to diversify its design into a hybrid one with design elements from the Dutch craft, built locally with Chinese material and help. This to me makes good use of the technology which one acquires. If this happens we can then go out and procure defensive equipment/ radars from multiple sources ending up with a design that we are used to and is low observable one. This is what makes sense to me at least. The new ship yard being built with Chinese help would come in very handy in this regards.It would allow us to utilize and gather all the technologies we have acquired so far for a complete in house development in the late 20s.
A

That is exactly what was going through my mind, thanks for articulating it so well. I think a local indigenous corvette is where PN would most likely want to start. Here are some things on the top of my head such a design could have:

1. Basically the size of a Swiftship 1500-2000 ton (about the same as the Damen boats)
1. Local AShM Harba (x6-x8)
2. Turkish Korkut 35mm CIWS (perhaps the right calibre against Brahmos)
3. Helicopter
4. Perhaps by then the rumored local SAM system will be ready
5. The Damen Axe bow hull design (basically a warmed up 1920s design that increases stability, allowing similar stability to a frigate but with the downside of high sea state submerging the boat, which may not be an issue for the Arabian sea)

I'm not sure there's much going on in terms of modifying the Azmat FAC. They basically altered the AShM load and maybe integrated different electronics. For a ship that's a grade above cosmetic changes tbh ... for bespoke work we'd be talking about our own actual design that can handle not just our choice of electronics and weapons, but materials (e.g. specific steel grades, composites, etc) and propulsion to achieve very targeted RCS and speed goals, respectively.

To be brutally frank, if we had been design focused from the start, we'd have avoided the MILGEM, Type 054A and even F-22P. Instead, we should have gone for other used ships (in place of the OHPs) and then stewarded a new domestically driven frigate design (ala JF-17 of the seas) with an experienced shipbuilder. Maybe China. Maybe the Dutch.

Ultimately, build a 2,400 to 3,000-ton design that inherently balances our cost concerns with a proper munitions load accounting for every one of our needs. But ultimately, aim for a $250 m per ship price point and then build 8-12 of those over 15-20 years. Yes, we'd still be importing the steel, engines, etc, but if it's our design we can choose where each of these specific inputs come from (i.e. not get stuck by OEM choices, pick the most cost-effective inputs available).

The PN is supposedly training a new generation of engineers for the 8 submarines from China, these are to learn hands on for the first four in the Chinese ship yard then build 4 more of the submarines locally. That would give future indigenous projects the required base.

If PN is still unable to create a design team and use the skills learned during the Agosta TOT, PN can still hire a foreign design team to make the blue prints. Then the subsystems can be sourced accordingly.

Subsystems integration isn't rocket science, just needs technically competent project management.

PS: I wouldn't be surprised if even Turkey used a foreign design team to build the Ada class.