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Pakistani OHP ship Status

04 OHPs will be good addition in PN, but PN must find good NATO standard weapon systems specially air defense radar and missile systems so they can provide air cover from enemy anti ship missiles and air crafts at medium to long ranges which PN lacks dangerously.

Other than OHP & F22Ps, PN can look for Type 54B or Turkish or some other western platform, but it all depend on availability of funds.
 
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WFT ? may be ?? in didnt know that there environments in our Navy ? and they are set to take 3 more these fishing ships from usa ?:hitwall:
Please keep your comments civil. PN tries to do the best job it can in a resource constrained environment. At the time when PN acquired OHPs further supply of ships was not assured. There was therefore no sense in upgrading a solitary ship. Recently there has been an announcement from US about its intention to supply a further 3 ships. In response to some prior assurance Pn then announced the intended upgrade of its OHP by Turkey. I think you should have a bit more faith in the powers that run PN.
araz
 
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I Never Quite understand the logic behind operating 40 yr old frigates
PN has 6 Tariq class frigates which are between 37-40 yrs old, While ur OHP is 36 yrs old
How long can these old hulls last
Indian Navy Decommisioned a Nilgiri class Frigate Inducted in 1981 , in 2012 after 31 yrs in service
While the oldest Principle Surface Combat that Indian Navy has at present is the Destroyer INS Rajput which is 33 yrs old, This ship ishttps://defence.pk/threads/pakistani-ohp-ship-status.299395/page-2 set for Decommissioning after Induction of INS Kolkata

Now if you look at the armament of Rajput then you might think what the hell

:
INS Rajput (4,974 tonnes full load)
Sensors and
processing systems:
  • Navigation: 2 x Volga (NATO: Don Kay) radar at I-band frequency,
  • Air: 1 x MP-500 Kliver (NATO: Big Net-A) radar at C-band or 1 x Bharat RAWL (Dutch Signaal LW08) radar at D-band (installed on INS Ranjit),
  • Air/Surface: 1 x MR-310U Angara (NATO: Head Net-C) radar at E-band, replaced by 1 x EL/M-2238 STAR[2]
  • Communication: Inmarsat,
  • Sonar: 1 x hull mounted Vycheda MG-311 (NATO: Wolf Paw) sonar replaced with Bharat HUMSA during MLR, 1 x Vyega MG-325 (NATO: Mare Tail) variable depth sonar
Weapons
Thats the specs of a ship which might be decommissioned by Indian Navy in next 1 yr
So maybe you should look into this
 
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I Never Quite understand the logic behind operating 40 yr old frigates
PN has 6 Tariq class frigates which are between 37-40 yrs old, While ur OHP is 36 yrs old
How long can these old hulls last
Indian Navy Decommisioned a Nilgiri class Frigate Inducted in 1981 , in 2012 after 31 yrs in service
While the oldest Principle Surface Combat that Indian Navy has at present is the Destroyer INS Rajput which is 33 yrs old, This ship ishttps://defence.pk/threads/pakistani-ohp-ship-status.299395/page-2 set for Decommissioning after Induction of INS Kolkata

Now if you look at the armament of Rajput then you might think what the hell

:
INS Rajput (4,974 tonnes full load)
Sensors and
processing systems:
  • Navigation: 2 x Volga (NATO: Don Kay) radar at I-band frequency,
  • Air: 1 x MP-500 Kliver (NATO: Big Net-A) radar at C-band or 1 x Bharat RAWL (Dutch Signaal LW08) radar at D-band (installed on INS Ranjit),
  • Air/Surface: 1 x MR-310U Angara (NATO: Head Net-C) radar at E-band, replaced by 1 x EL/M-2238 STAR[2]
  • Communication: Inmarsat,
  • Sonar: 1 x hull mounted Vycheda MG-311 (NATO: Wolf Paw) sonar replaced with Bharat HUMSA during MLR, 1 x Vyega MG-325 (NATO: Mare Tail) variable depth sonar
Weapons
Thats the specs of a ship which might be decommissioned by Indian Navy in next 1 yr
So maybe you should look into this

PN does and is doing the best it can with limited funds on the table , if you and your logic as you state can supply funds so that our poor navy can upgrade with style then plzz do so otherwise try to understand the real reasons and logic behind what is taking place and will take place in the near future thanks.
 
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Pakistan have the same problem we have in Sweden with the Russian.

Both Sweden and Pakistan is neighboring a giant and hostile country (India to Pakistan, Russia to Sweden) while both have decent forces, both sweden and pakistan cannot defend their soil from the proposed threat land by land, foot by foot.

There are only going to be one solution, that's using strategic depth and force concentration to multiply force strength, so that Pakistan can deal with the Problem thrown at them with the Indian Navy, where the PN want, when the PN want.

If Pakistan want to heads-up with Indian Navy, the result would be tragic, if i were the commander of the Indian Navy, i will first target all surface vessel using a combine Air/Sea approach. At current stage, Pakistan Navy have a handful of surface combat ship at their disposal, on paper, only 11 frigate and 10 patrol boat. It would be a fatal error if Pakistan Navy want to try hold Indian Navy at bay with their megre firepower. Even if Pakistan can buy and upgrade 4 OHP class frigate and put them into fray, PN would still be looking at 50-70% casualty at the first Alpha Strike by India.

The solution is simple. What PN need is a safe haven, a place where their ship is safe in harbor and ready to be use as strategic reserve. A port that's outside Pakistan but close to, and safe from any eventual war with India. And then PN should put a great deal of their latest and most powerful warship there and place them as strategic reserve, using the older and more mobile ship to concentrate on making mobile run on Indian Navy in Pakistani Coast and trying to buy time. Pick a place where you want to fight the IN in detail while PN goes, then PN could roll IN over with the strategic reserve.

However, to have this to work, PN or PAF would need another force multiplier tool in a form of AEW aircraft. The key to fight a force concentration war is mobility, that mean Pakistan Military need to know when and where to deploy their force in the area they need to deploy. Where they go when they go have to be very precise and for that PN would need a very good early warning system. A good AEW network is a must for survival in an eventual war with India.

Personally, i am against putting fighter squadron and any land based asset together with the Navy, as they are almost needed elsewhere with the air threat and land threat the Indian Military Post. However, a couple of squadron to contest local air superiority is a must for PN Naval AO. So the Indian fighter/bomber would not and could not harass the PN at will.

In my opinion, it does not matter if Pakistan get the remaining OHP for sale or make good with F-22P, it does not really matter or affect how PN fights the IN, it's always how you could use those ship that count. If the safe haven cannot be established, then getting more OHP and whatever ship would simply prosponing the demise of Pakistan Navy
 
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I Never Quite understand the logic behind operating 40 yr old frigates
PN has 6 Tariq class frigates which are between 37-40 yrs old, While ur OHP is 36 yrs old
How long can these old hulls last

Indian Navy Decommisioned a Nilgiri class Frigate Inducted in 1981 , in 2012 after 31 yrs in service
While the oldest Principle Surface Combat that Indian Navy has at present is the Destroyer INS Rajput which is 33 yrs old,

That is becasue for PN to survive, they need to fight asyemmtrical. It would do more harm then good if PN goes along the route of head to head and toe to toe developement to IN.

The first problem i can see is PN would never match the sheer number and firepower to that of IN. So even if PN induce new ship then they can only do so in a limited quantity, in a war scenario, that may last PN a few days more but when the enemy simply have more modern ship than you, then PN have got to give.

The second problem would be, New equipment take time to master them, time I am not sure Pakistan have, PN can of course introduce more latest Chinese ship or made their own with the Chinese, but to what limit of profiency do they hold? Even the Chinese ship is untried, so it would take more time for PN to "feel" the capability and limit for their weapon platform. And that would be bad if PN is merely reacting to what IN did simply becasue by the time you know your new ship inside and out, IN would have bring in some new toy and PN would have to start all over again.

Buying second hand equipment seems strange, but that is the quickest way to beef up your defense and you know what you are getting, and you can deal with the threat now, as oppose to mile ahead in the future.
 
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PN should take money from GoP for F-22P Block-II production locally with an increase weight aof about 3800/4100 tons and with two cell of 32-Cell VLS launchers for AShMs and AAA Missiles.
 
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Pakistan have the same problem we have in Sweden with the Russian.

Both Sweden and Pakistan is neighboring a giant and hostile country (India to Pakistan, Russia to Sweden) while both have decent forces, both sweden and pakistan cannot defend their soil from the proposed threat land by land, foot by foot.

There are only going to be one solution, that's using strategic depth and force concentration to multiply force strength, so that Pakistan can deal with the Problem thrown at them with the Indian Navy, where the PN want, when the PN want.

If Pakistan want to heads-up with Indian Navy, the result would be tragic, if i were the commander of the Indian Navy, i will first target all surface vessel using a combine Air/Sea approach. At current stage, Pakistan Navy have a handful of surface combat ship at their disposal, on paper, only 11 frigate and 10 patrol boat. It would be a fatal error if Pakistan Navy want to try hold Indian Navy at bay with their megre firepower. Even if Pakistan can buy and upgrade 4 OHP class frigate and put them into fray, PN would still be looking at 50-70% casualty at the first Alpha Strike by India.

The solution is simple. What PN need is a safe haven, a place where their ship is safe in harbor and ready to be use as strategic reserve. A port that's outside Pakistan but close to, and safe from any eventual war with India. And then PN should put a great deal of their latest and most powerful warship there and place them as strategic reserve, using the older and more mobile ship to concentrate on making mobile run on Indian Navy in Pakistani Coast and trying to buy time. Pick a place where you want to fight the IN in detail while PN goes, then PN could roll IN over with the strategic reserve.

However, to have this to work, PN or PAF would need another force multiplier tool in a form of AEW aircraft. The key to fight a force concentration war is mobility, that mean Pakistan Military need to know when and where to deploy their force in the area they need to deploy. Where they go when they go have to be very precise and for that PN would need a very good early warning system. A good AEW network is a must for survival in an eventual war with India.

Personally, i am against putting fighter squadron and any land based asset together with the Navy, as they are almost needed elsewhere with the air threat and land threat the Indian Military Post. However, a couple of squadron to contest local air superiority is a must for PN Naval AO. So the Indian fighter/bomber would not and could not harass the PN at will.

In my opinion, it does not matter if Pakistan get the remaining OHP for sale or make good with F-22P, it does not really matter or affect how PN fights the IN, it's always how you could use those ship that count. If the safe haven cannot be established, then getting more OHP and whatever ship would simply prosponing the demise of Pakistan Navy
Nice comparison but Pakistan is Nuclear Power vs India and Sweden is Not a nuclear state vs Russians. our nuclear detterance gives us breathing space to counter India.
 
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PN should take money from GoP for F-22P Block-II production locally with an increase weight aof about 3800/4100 tons and with two cell of 32-Cell VLS launchers for AShMs and AAA Missiles.

Where else do you think PN gets their money from....
 
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Before we dismiss OHP as old fishing boats. We must not ignore two very important points:

1. Pakistan is very short of funds. Any decent modern naval vessel costs upwards of $400 -500 million. Therefore Pakistan has no other option but to optimise her resources in men and material. Additionally, even if we could somehow manage to arrange the funds, it is not likely that Western powers will sell us state of the art naval vessels. That is why most of our new vessels are of Chinese origin. F-22 is better than what we have but just barely good enough when compared with the UK Type 23 Frigate (to be replaced by Type 26- Global Combat Frigates by 2020.)

2. Combat ship consists of two distinct parts. The vessel hull & propulsion system and the vessel weapon system & RADAR. As long as vessel hull and propulsion system is in good condition, once you install modern radar & weapon system; you have a very capable fighting ship. That is why naval vessels are regularly mothballed by the US Navy.

A renovated OHP vessel is a good ‘ Platform’ where modern Radar and other weapon systems can be installed in stages depending upon availability of funds. After that you would have an effective combat vessel at a fraction of the cost of a new frigate.

In my view many members have an inherent dislike of anything from US that’s why we deride all US gestures of goodwill. In the days when parties get elected exploiting anti US sentiment; let me remind all anti- US members that 1965 War; all of us are so proud of; was fought with the weapons gifted to Pakistan under the US AID. MM Alam flew in a US made Saber and at Khem Karan & at Chowinda our army was using US Pattons & Shermans.

I am not a great fan of the US but I am a pragmatic person and certainly not a thankless ‘Son of a …’
 
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Where else do you think PN gets their money from....

I think it will also help the local economy as well. I would say that PN should be given funds to design with China and also involve Libya, Algeria and Yemen in the program for:

5000 Tons Multi Mission Frigate (not Yemen)
2500 Tons Multi Mission Corvette
1100 Tons Multi Mission FAC
300 Tons Missle Boat like MRTP-40++
Other small boats like RIBS/MRTP-20/25 and vessels needed by Coast guards
Hover Crafts
Commercial and other Military Vessels.
 
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Nice comparison but Pakistan is Nuclear Power vs India and Sweden is Not a nuclear state vs Russians. our nuclear detterance gives us breathing space to counter India.

Actually, nothing has change, Sweden was part of EU, so it would put them into EU/NATO nuclear umberlla. Beside, Sweden, like Pakistan is extremely close to their intented aggressor, which pretty much relued out Strategic Nuclear weapon strike.

Nuclear Weapon only give you a clear MAD capability, there are no "Regional Nuclear Exchange", if any type of Nuclear war would be fought, that would be a global scale.
 
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I Never Quite understand the logic behind operating 40 yr old frigates
While the oldest Principle Surface Combat that Indian Navy has at present is the Destroyer INS Rajput which is 33 yrs old,

INS Viraat, first in commission 1 September 1953 > 61 years
Ins Jalashwa, first in commission 6 March 1971 > 43 years.
Gaj class of offshore tugboats > 43
 
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INS Viraat, first in commission 1 September 1953 > 61 years
Ins Jalashwa, first in commission 6 March 1971 > 43 years.
Gaj class of offshore tugboats > 43
Viraat was laid down in 1953, it was commissioned in 1959
But its a 28000 Ton Air Defence Ship/ Carrier and has undergone Modernization upgrades in 1986, 1999 and 2007. Also Carriers tend to have service life of 50 yrs, Viraat has crossed that limit because its replacement Vikrant will only be ready in 2018.

Typically Frigates are suposed to have life of 30 yrs , Destroyers 35 yrs

As far As Jalashwa is concerned, well its a 17000 ton LPD, and as such will serve till its 50
 
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