PAKISTANI JUDICIARY’s UNIQUE HONOUR

[Imran Khan]

PAKISTANI JUDICIARY’s UNIQUE HONOUR 120 OUT OF 128.
WILL IMPROVE FURTHER AFTER JUSTICE MINALLAH’s JUDGEMENT IN FAVOUR OF BROTHER JUDGE FEZ ISSA EXONERATING HIM

 

[Syed1.]

Lanat on azaad adaliya

 

[peagle]

PAKISTANI JUDICIARY’s UNIQUE HONOUR 120 OUT OF 128.
WILL IMPROVE FURTHER AFTER JUSTICE MINALLAH’s JUDGEMENT IN FAVOUR OF BROTHER JUDGE FEZ ISSA EXONERATING HIM

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I really do not know how they judge Pakistan on these metrics,
it seems they have a default, put Pakistan near the bottom and that's it, ignore all the facts.

I remember 10 years ago, Pakistan was always at or near the bottom of failed states index, a country about to disintegrate into a million pieces, they are a bunch of jokers.

Zimbabwe is a third rate dictatorship with near to no peaceful civil society and somehow it is above Pakistan, I do not even know which other countries are above in that list,
Afghanistan with a non-existence government, no stable institutions of any kinds, and a civil society that have been destroyed for 40 years is just 2 spots below Pakistan.

WHO, in their right minds can say this makes sense, these guys and anyone who believes them needs their head examined.

 

[Imran Khan]

I really do not know how they judge Pakistan on these metrics,
it seems they have a default, put Pakistan near the bottom and that's it, ignore all the facts.

I remember 10 years ago, Pakistan was always at or near the bottom of failed states index, a country about to disintegrate into a million pieces, they are a bunch of jokers.

Zimbabwe is a third rate dictatorship with near to no peaceful civil society and somehow it is above Pakistan, I do not even know which other countries are above in that list,
Afghanistan with a non-existence government, no stable institutions of any kinds, and a civil society that have been destroyed for 40 years is just 2 spots below Pakistan.

WHO, in their right minds can say this makes sense, these guys and anyone who believes them needs their head examined.

i am not agree with statics but i think there is some reason we give to them to do it too sir. they add those countries better then pakistan where our army is doing peacekeeping duties .

 

[peagle]

i am not agree with statics but i think there is some reason we give to them to do it too sir. they add those countries better then pakistan where our army is doing peacekeeping duties .

See you recognise, that it just doesn't make sense.

I recognise we have problems, we are a developing country, but to be presented as the worst of the worse every single time, what the heck yaar.

I don't know if you have kids, but let's imagine if you do, (if you do, then Mashallah)
Tell your kids every single day or every single week that you are bad, you are good for nothing,
what result do you think you will produce??

We never question these stupid things rationally, and accept what is given to us, as a result negativity has permeated through our society so much that when something positive comes along, we are always hesitant to believe it. Let's start to challenge these stupid interpretations about us.

If we are to be criticised, then at least it should be based on something factual, something believable.

 

[Jungibaaz]

This index is mostly or entirely reliant on questionnaires and polls with small sample sizes, it's basically trying to best represent the extent to which ordinary people feel their judicial system is trustworthy and effective.

So this is in fact only a slightly more elaborate opinion poll and it roughly reflects what the average Pakistani's own views are on their judicial system. It's not actually conducting any sort of rigorous or tailored analysis, the insights are also very minimal and split into perception categories on things like civil rights, corruption, criminal law etc. Nor does it make any deeper or subjective analysis, or operate said analysis through specific paradigms by which to measure the effectiveness of a judicial system.

In fact, from my reading of the categories. Any political takeaway from this is invalid. Take the current backdrop for example. This index will negatively rate the judicial system based on the supporters of the current government's view and their perception of the judicial system's failure to prosecute corruption, while also negatively rating us on the pro-opposition perception of pliant and biased courts curbing political freedoms, hence we rank in two diametrically opposed ways, both negatively on two separate categories; corruption and civil rights, without any logical or ranking inconsistency. Another example of this is take missing persons and enforced disappearances, if the perception is captured in the sampling and methodology, we rank negatively as a result. However on the opposite side are people who might say that our courts fail to prosecute and conduct efficient and timely proceedings against accused terrorists or criminals. So again, we rank negatively on security and criminal law, while also taking flack for civil rights etc. That is to say that all of these problems compound to put us near bottom, but the index is NOT making any political comment or lending credence to any side of any debate in Pakistan.

I'm not discrediting it, perceptions are pertinent on judging effectiveness (pun not intended), but it's important to know the limitations of what you are observing. The whole report + methodology is available online.

@saiyan0321

 

[Imran Khan]

See you recognise, that it just doesn't make sense.

I recognise we have problems, we are a developing country, but to be presented as the worst of the worse every single time, what the heck yaar.

I don't know if you have kids, but let's imagine if you do, (if you do, then Mashallah)
Tell your kids every single day or every single week that you are bad, you are good for nothing,
what result do you think you will produce??

We never question these stupid things rationally, and accept what is given to us, as a result negativity has permeated through our society so much that when something positive comes along, we are always hesitant to believe it. Let's start to challenge these stupid interpretations about us.

If we are to be criticised, then at least it should be based on something factual, something believable.

its all about how you have relations with west

 

[peagle]

This index is mostly or entirely reliant on questionnaires and polls with small sample sizes, it's basically trying to best represent the extent to which ordinary people feel their judicial system is trustworthy and effective.

So this is in fact only a slightly more elaborate opinion poll and it roughly reflects what the average Pakistani's own views are on their judicial system. It's not actually conducting any sort of rigorous or tailored analysis, the insights are also very minimal and split into perception categories on things like civil rights, corruption, criminal law etc. Nor does it make any deeper or subjective analysis, or operate said analysis through specific paradigms by which to measure the effectiveness of a judicial system.

I'm not discrediting it, but it's important to know the limitations of what you are observing. The whole report + methodology is available online.

@saiyan0321

Right, when these reports are based on perceptions or press reports and such arbitrary measurements, then a lot depends on the natural mindset of the people, and who is getting what kind of coverage in the press.

For instant, the failed states index was based on press coverage, you can put Pakistan at the bottom of the list even before you start writing such a report.

Any report based on perceptions will almost Always place Pakistan near the bottom of that list, because our society has become so extremely negative over time. I know of no other nation that's so comprehensively negative in assessing itself, always crying and always complaining, as if operating on a default.

Such reports and index, should be challenged for their weaknesses or their simple methodologies, otherwise the negativity grows further deep inside among the public.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

After the release of a convicted mass looter Nawaz Sharif I will and I am a practicing lawyer put Pakistani judiciary at bottom of the list so both the perception of Pakistani people and the makers of this list are absolutely right .

 

[Syed1.]

Right, when these reports are based on perceptions or press reports and such arbitrary measurements, then a lot depends on the natural mindset of the people, and who is getting what kind of coverage in the press.

For instant, the failed states index was based on press coverage, you can put Pakistan at the bottom of the list even before you start writing such a report.

Any report based on perceptions will almost Always place Pakistan near the bottom of that list, because our society has become so extremely negative over time. I know of no other nation that's so comprehensively negative in assessing itself, always crying and always complaining, as if operating on a default.

Such reports and index, should be challenged for their weaknesses or their simple methodologies, otherwise the negativity grows further deep inside among the public.

I understand where you are coming from I commend you for your love of the country.


I cannot comment on the state of judiciary in other countries but it is a known fact that Pakistani judicial system is proper bull shit. My family has had the misfortune of being a directly effected by it. My paternal grandfather and his brother had a shop in a lucrative area of Saddar, Karachi. They had leased out the shop to a tenant but the tenant took qabza of it and made false documents to make it his own. The matter went to court and you won't believe it took over thirty years for the case to be resolved just last year. In that time my grandfather, his brother and the tenant have all passed away. The children of all parties were left to fight the case, and even the 'children' have become grand parents in the span of nearly four decades.


I'm sure my story isn't a one off. This is the state of our judicial system if you are not rich and powerful.

 

[peagle]

I understand where you are coming from I commend you for your love of the country.


I cannot comment on the state of judiciary in other countries but it is a known fact that Pakistani judicial system is proper bull shit. My family has had the misfortune of being a directly effected by it. My paternal grandfather and his brother had a shop in a lucrative area of Saddar, Karachi. They had leased out the shop to a tenant but the tenant took qabza of it and made false documents to make it his own. The matter went to court and you won't believe it took over thirty years for the case to be resolved just last year. In that time my grandfather, his brother and the tenant have all passed away. The children of all parties were left to fight the case, and even the 'children' have become grand parents in the span of nearly four decades.


I'm sure my story isn't a one off. This is the state of our judicial system if you are not rich and powerful.

Thank you, but honestly, my defence does not come from the love I feel for Pakistan, it comes from the insane lies that are told without question, a basic sense of right and wrong. Every judges by a different yardstick.

I'll give you my own story, we have a plot of land stuck in the middle of a dispute since the early 1990s, my dad has passed away and none of us are interested in going back, My mother is the only one who keeps interest in the matter alive. By our estimate it must be worth at least 2 crores by now.
We also had 25 acre agriculture land dispute that was only settled after 10 years of bull crap court case, and giving percentage of land as a bribe.

I can give you these stories all over the world, I can give some shocking stories here in the UK, but I rather not as I live here, and it involves officialdom. But, we can't base our opinions on stories, they make a point, not a conclusion.

A former Indian chief justice was made a member of parliament, and there are others, this would never happen in Pakistan. I knew a guy from West Bengal, cant remember his city right now, he went back because his visa ran out, he had savings so opened a restaurant, once it became successful, his landlord kicked him out and took over his business, is that justice, endless stories once you start looking.

We only think that everything that happens in Pakistan doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. When you start reading, you'll find the world is far more f..kd-up then Pakistan.

Without any bias, without patriotism, hand on my heart, I can tell you Pakistan is a wonderful country, if only we show little positivity and judge ourselves, according to how the world really is, not how we think it is.

Since I was a teenager, I had a habit of if I read a bad story about Pakistan, I would search similar stories in other part of the world, especially India, that was before internet, I can assure you, the world is far far more messed up then Pakistan. We need to have balance in our evaluation of ourselves, and not give blanket judgement, as is our habit.