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Pakistani doctors with MS, MD degrees sacked in S. Arabia

MS / MD programs are done by doctors who wants to persue their careers in teaching profession not in hospital. Here pmdc association was trying to be play cute with Saudis but can't anymore.
Thanks for your insights.

Is there a possibility that a racket of Indian expat doctors is working against the interests of Pak doctors in the lobbies of such countries where there is a diaspora of both nations? Because I am getting the impression that the downgraded MS/MD degree is still acceptable from other nations listed.
 
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One would need to compare the programs offered by these countries...

Like an Indian member just stated:

I don't know, I am training a young Pathan doctor (3rd year student and added his ethnicity to let people know I don't hate them, I dislike behavior of people of one certain region only) these days, just yesterday he told me he does spend time in hospital, poor soul slept 4 hours only and was still ready for the beating.
 
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I don't know, I am training a young Pathan doctor (3rd year student and added his ethnicity to let people know I don't hate them, I dislike behavior of people of one certain region only) these days, just yesterday he told me he does spend time in hospital, poor soul slept 4 hours only and was still ready for the beating.
Any idea what degree he is doing? We are not talking about all our doctors just different degrees different programme layout..
 
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Any idea what degree he is doing? We are not talking about all our doctors just different degrees different programme layout..

He is still 3rd year MBBS student. They do a mandatory house job after MBBS .... doesn't that count?
 
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https://www.dawn.com/news/1477014/saudi-arabia-recognises-doctors-postgraduate-degrees

Read this related article in dawn. Saudia never used to recongnize MS/ MD program as to them, they were mostly research based programs and they were right about it.
why recognise then expels them?

Although MS and MD degrees are recognised as clinical degrees in Pakistan, in Saudi Arabia both degrees were considered research degrees, due to which degree holders were not allowed to practice there. The fact is that in Pakistan, both MS and MDs work in hospitals and get clinical work experience,” he said.

He is still 3rd year MBBS student. They do a mandatory house job after MBBS .... doesn't that count?
We are talking about specialization...
MBBS is basic degree...like bachelor's. ..specialisation is masters or equivalent
 
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We are talking about specialization...
MBBS is basic degree...like bachelor's. ..specialisation is masters or equivalent

Yes, I do understand that, but the excuse being provided is that they don't have enough on job practical training?
 
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My experience with Pakistani doctors here has been pathetic. They treat their patients like cows just waiting to get an injection at a veterinary camp.
Imagine Pakistani doctors are extremely successful in West and North America. And these .................

They are earning over $300k + here in Australia.
 
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why recognise then expels them?

Although MS and MD degrees are recognised as clinical degrees in Pakistan, in Saudi Arabia both degrees were considered research degrees, due to which degree holders were not allowed to practice there. The fact is that in Pakistan, both MS and MDs work in hospitals and get clinical work experience,” he said.


We are talking about specialization...
MBBS is basic degree...like bachelor's. ..specialisation is masters or equivalent

Clinical hours work experience is way up in fcps and mcps. Regarding accepting them and later expelling them in couple of months time means they were misled by the authorities here. Anyways we could had done better job in handling the issue. Dawn has made this news as something sensational like some hundreds of MS doctors are working in Saudia.
 
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I think Pakistan has ignored something Saudi asked for. May they want Pakistan to listen India. Last time they try to mediate after 27th Feb, but KSA rejected Saudi mediation.

Actually MS and MD are two courses that are taught less in classrooms and more in hospitals.
An MS, MD aspiring doctor in India lives in hostels situated in medical colleges attached with hospitals, they attend their class in the morning and work 8 hours in hospitals in shift under a very senior doctor for two whole years.
They are called resident doctors in India.
Perhaps Pakistani doctors are not undergoing this mandatory training.

Now days this on the job training has become a compulsory requirement in most of the countries.

I am not familiar with technicalities, @padamchen can impart a better understanding to all of us in this subject.
 
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Saudia annually hires many fcps consultants from Pakistan... Just that they have gone ahead with MS degree holders as well earlier the year but now have reverted their decision. Although this doesn't look good and kinda unethical but this is how things work there. Mind you, with exceeding work experience, an MS doctor can grew better skills than fcps doctor.

An MS, MD aspiring doctor in India lives in hostels situated in medical colleges attached with hospitals, they attend their class in the morning and work 8 hours in hospitals in shift under a very senior doctor for two whole years.
They are called resident doctors in India.
Perhaps Pakistani doctors are not undergoing this mandatory training.

Same here but we label such doctor as mcps trained (2 years). Fcps has 2 years further and in the end they have to pass tough exam and practical viva conducted by senior most consultants panel which lasts for certain hours.
 
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College of Physicians and Surgeons Pakistan (CPSP) for damaging their carrier

"Carrier".... Maybe we all now know why... Pakistani education system produces poor quality grad docs and apparently even journalist...

These gulf countries have very unjust standards like they not give work visa to a person who has completely recovered from Tuberculosis but in west such people are allowed for immigration as they consider discrimination due to history of past disease as inhuman act


Immigration and work visa isnt a right. It is a privilege that you have to earn.

Im glad the rescinded theseD/MS defrees that did not include the rigors of a house job.

Pakistanis need to stop lying on their applications and work harder. Its not a right... Its a privilege.

Good job Saudis!
 
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LAHORE: In a worrying development, Saudi Arabia and some other Arab countries have rejected the century-old postgraduate degree programme of Pakistan — MS (Master of Surgery) and MD (Doctor of Medicine) — removing it from the eligibility list of the highest paid tier.

This decision has reportedly rendered hundreds of highly qualified medics jobless. A majority of them are in Saudi Arabia who have been told to leave or be ready for deportation.

Rejecting Pakistan’s MS/MD degree, the Saudi ministry of health claimed it lacked structured training programme, a mandatory requirement to hire medics against important positions. After the Saudi move, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain also took the similar step.

Most of the affected doctors were hired by a team of the Saudi health ministry in 2016 when it conducted interviews in Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad after inviting applications online.

One of the affected doctors told Dawn the decision had brought embarrassment for them since the same degree programme offered by India, Egypt, Sudan and Bangladesh was acceptable in Saudi Arabia and other countries.

Degree programme lacks mandatory training, says Saudi health ministry; affected doctors blame CPSP for their plight

This correspondent has obtained copies of service termination letters of several doctors issued by the Saudi Commission for Health Specialties (SCFHS).

“Your application for professional qualification has been rejected. Reason is that your master degree from Pakistan is not acceptable according to the SCFHS regulations,” reads a letter.

Some of the affected doctors and senior health officials in Pakistan blame the College of Physicians and Surgeons Pakistan (CPSP) for damaging their carrier.

A spokesperson for the Association of University Physicians and Surgeons Pakistan, Dr Asad Noor Mirza, takes it as a setback for Pakistan’s major degree qualification and disrespect to the highly qualified cream of the nation.

He claimed that CPSP delegations during recent visits to Saudi Arabia and some Gulf states had presented distorted facts about Pakistan’s university programme to maintain monopoly of the CPSP-sponsored FCPS qualification.

Mr Noor told Dawn Pakistan had to face a huge loss of foreign remittance in addition to sufferings of the medics in the form of joblessness.

Talking to this correspondent from Saudi Arabia on phone, Dr Ali Usman, an affected medic, said, “I had done five-year postgraduate qualification from the University of Health Sciences, Lahore, with training from Lahore General Hospital... But all of a sudden the Saudi health ministry terminated my job contract, landing me and my family in immense shock.”

Dr Usman said when he contacted Director General of Collaboration Department, Saudi Arabia, Saeedul Barki, he told him that his qualification was rejected when the CPSP delegation told the authorities that there was no training-based post-graduate medical degree in Pakistan, except FCPS. Mr Barki said the CPSP president held multiple meetings with relevant officials in Saudi Arabia and asked the authorities to consider only FCSP qualified Pakistani medics for jobs here.

He said the CPSP had misled the SCFHS ignoring the fact that Pakistan’s university degree qualification was a structured training programme.

University of Health Sciences Vice Chancellor Prof Dr Javed Akram dispelled the impression that the MS/MD programme was not a structured training qualification.

“The MS/MD programme was started in 1914 and the first MS degree was awarded to G.B. Kapoor from Punjab University,” he said.

“The MS/MD degrees have been declared a five-year level-III research and clinical qualification by the Pakistan Medical and Dental Council,” he said.

“The MS and MD degrees are enriched with dynamic, congruent and structured curriculum comprising clinical and research component at par excellence of international standards designed by the World Federation of Medical Education,” Prof Akram said.

He said the University of Health Sciences and many senior medical experts from all over the country had recently took up the issue of termination of jobs of Pakistani medics and also talked to the SCFHS.

According to official figures, currently 4,440 postgraduates are serving at various government and private medical institutions in Pakistan. Of them, 102 are teaching as faculty members in senior positions.

CPSP president Prof Dr Zafarullah Chaudhry could not be contacted for comments despite attempts. However, Dean (academics) of the CPSP, Prof Dr Ghulam Mustafa Arain, rejected the allegations levelled by the affected doctors and said the CPSP representatives had been promoting FCPS qualification during visits abroad to create a good image of Pakistan in the field of medical education.

However, he added, “the CPSP can’t think of degrading any medical education programme of Pakistan abroad”.

Secretary of the Specialised Healthcare and Medical Education Department, Punjab, Momin Agha, said they had taken up the issue with provincial Health Minister Dr Yasmin Rashid. He said after deliberations, it had been unanimously decided to hand over the matter to the medical education committee which was looking after under-graduate and post-graduate degree programmes.

The committee comprising senior medical teachers of high repute would examine the issue in respect of reforms in the MS/MD qualification, if needed, to meet the international requirements.

“It is clear that the MS/MD qualification is a structured degree programme which meets all job requirements locally and internationally,” Mr Agha said.

He said the local health authorities would take up the matter with health managers in the Arab countries.

Published in Dawn, August 7th, 2019

Didnt you make a thread about how Dawn is harming Pakistani narrative and interests home and abroad?

Just because now its something that can be propagated against the Saudis, Dawn has become Halal to you?
 
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