Pakistani Desi Liberals

[Sheikh Rauf]

Have you ever wondered why are these seculars always anti Pakistan directly or indirectly?

I remember sometimes Hamid Gul used to say in his interviews that always keep in mind enemies of Pakistan have 4 goals:

1. DeIslamilize Pakistan (make Pakistan secular)
2. Demilitarize Pakistan
3. Denuclearize Pakistan
4. Delink Pakistan with China

Although last 3 made quite sense but at that time I didn't understood what he meant by first point but now after I have eyewitnessed things I can say with full surety that these seculars and pseudo liberals are the biggest enemies of Pakistan, they divide us on ethnic basis, they think that creation of Pakistan was a mistake, they say 2 nation theory was wrong, they say Kashmir is not yours but let go of balochistan, they claim we lost all wars with India, they criticise Pakistan's nuclear program, they literally support India on everything, they despise Islam and ideology of Pakistan, they despise Pakistan's Jihad against Soviet union, they despise everything we stand for according to them we are always wrong there is nothing right about us, our existence and our past. Apart from that they want us to become friends with India on every cost but on the other hand their Nukta chini and prejudice about Pak-China friendship never ends.

On the other hand I have seen again and again that people who are patriotic Pakistanis, who sacrificed for Pakistan, who are still fighting for Pakistan and who believe in Pakistan to this day and who try to keep the country united are all Islamists or at least believing Muslims

I'm not saying that all Islamists are patriots or all seculars are traitors but over all this is a fact if to form an opinion on seeing the majority

This country was created by people who believed in Ideology of Islam and it will be saved by them as well, those who have ideological differences with you can never be loyal to you.

Its just like expecting a Communist to be loyal to a Capitalistic regime

And Altaf Hussain the leader of Pakistan's biggest secular liberal party is the living major proof for it in front of the whole world

If you notice about 5 years till now we have seen debates on Tv Channels like Molvi vs scientist , jamati vs NGOs
secular vs religious people who believe Pakistan is created for muslims.
specially on Geo Sama express dunya and few other ones but Geo was working on it religiously to atleast show it to world that Pakistan is secular actually seculars with NGOs comes up with really strong points but evantually fail to impact on Pakistanies, now they have been forcing to change our education system taking everything islamic out.
Altaf hossain was strong part of their bigger game which is falling apart and its bothering and making nervouse alot of world players...
our political parties and their buzdil owners are too corrupt to make decisions... we need to clear things up now its a Time.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

So they would disown the party because they couldn't handle the truth about Jinnah, that it didn't fit the popular narrative?

Haha, not so simple.

You say something for years and people support you. Then you can't dump them all of a sudden.

 

[laphroaig]

whats wrong with Pune ! nice city. food is not good ( very generic !) though and they always try to compare their city with Bangalore !

No offense, no Punekar compares his city to that city. Completely different vibe.

 

[sbh02]

None of them were even born in 1857.

Did I say they were?

After the events of the Indian Mutiny in 1857, and the sufferings of the Indian Muslims post 1857 (aided by the Hindus to the British); there were "two schools of thoughts" that were established. The Aligarh movement and the Islamic Deoband one. The communal divide was already there. And Iqbal feared for the fate of Muslims in a communal, Hindu dominant Indian subcontinent.

With Jinnah, he just came to the conclusion much later down the line when he personally saw the actions (or non-actions) of the likes of Gandhi and Nehru in the Congress, and the politics of the time.

 

[911]

Not stating what is right or wrong or what Pakistan should be like, its Pakistan's internal matter. But no one can deny that Pakistan will remain Islamic republic till Kashmir issue exsists.

 

[M. Sarmad]

1. DeIslamilize Pakistan (make Pakistan secular)
2. Demilitarize Pakistan
3. Denuclearize Pakistan
4. Delink Pakistan with China

1- You can make Pakistan Secular without Deislamizing it. Secularism is compatible with Islam. Mufakkir e Pakistan Allama Muhammad Iqbal said about separation of Church and state (i.e. Secularism) that The structure of Islam as a religio-political system no doubt does permit such a view.

2) A Big No

3) Not unless everyone else in the World (too) is denuclearized

4) "Unleashing" the Qaum of Yajuj Majuj may prove catastrophic in the long run. But we have no other option right now

 

[Apprentice]

1- You can make Pakistan Secular without Deislamizing it. Secularism is compatible with Islam. Mufakkir e Pakistan Allama Muhammad Iqbal said about separation of Church and state (i.e. Secularism) that The structure of Islam as a religio-political system no doubt does permit such a view.

2) A Big No

3) Not unless everyone else in the World (too) is denuclearized

4) "Unleashing" the Qaum of Yajuj Majuj may prove catastrophic in the long run. But we have no other option right now

Secularism is not compatible with Islam bhai. Such a view is self-contradictory. Secularism means separation of religion from state. Whilst Islam governs all aspects of life and society as well as state.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Secularism is not compatible with Islam bhai. Such a view is self-contradictory. Secularism means separation of religion from state. Whilst Islam governs all aspects of life and society as well as state.

Bhai, I was quoting Allama Muhammad Iqbal ... (Reconstruction of religious thought in Islam by Allama Iqbal)

 

[Apprentice]

Allama Iqbal believed in Islami hukumat as far as I am aware.

 

[punit]

No offense, no Punekar compares his city to that city. Completely different vibe.

in terms of IT growth and Job opportunity only !

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Did I say they were?

After the events of the Indian Mutiny in 1857, and the sufferings of the Indian Muslims post 1857 (aided by the Hindus to the British); there were "two schools of thoughts" that were established. The Aligarh movement and the Islamic Deoband one. The communal divide was already there. And Iqbal feared for the fate of Muslims in a communal, Hindu dominant Indian subcontinent.

With Jinnah, he just came to the conclusion much later down the line when he personally saw the actions (or non-actions) of the likes of Gandhi and Nehru in the Congress, and the politics of the time.

Not true. Hindus and Muslims fought almost together against the British in the Northern Indian regions. The Muslims were ruling India upto 1720~30s. After that the control passed on to the Dharmic people (Marathas and Sikhs). Muslims felt insecure - every ruling class does feel that. But in 1857 - they were pretty much together in the North. But the Maratha states (what remained of them) and the Sikh regiments in the British Army strongly fought against the rebels - because they feared a resurgence of the dead Mughal empire. Hindus were on both sides of the divide - not on the lines of religion, but local concerns. Sikhs fought along religion. They had every right to - they suffered terribly under the Islamic rule.

Iqbal did not have any fear. It was not inferiority complex janaab, it was supremacist thinking. He genuinely believed that Muslims should not be ruled by non Muslims. He was from Kashmir, lived close to where I live. We are taught about him in detail.

I have no quarrel with you.

I can understand why you wish Jinnah and Jinnah's founded State was secular. If it becomes one, good luck.
I can only wish you the best for your future. May you prosper in peace and dignity. Tathastu.

 

[I S I]

Never knew IK was a Catholic (´◉◉`

many even call him a Jew. go figure.

 

[TheNoob]

What do liberals have against china?
because communist?


But Communist hate is only american centric due to cold war.
It does not apply to the whole world.

WTF IS WRONG WITH STUPID IDIOT?

 

[Zibago]

many even call him a Jew. go figure.

Honest jew better than corrupt Baboon butt

Hindu generals in Ghaznavi's Army is false. Many converted as they were allowed to keep their kingdoms. They can't be counted as Hindu anymore. There were a few slave generals, their religion also don't count.

But your statement otherwise is correct. There were Russians in Hitler's army as well.

Pakistan's strength lies in its Islamism. If it becomes liberal, it loses the very basis on which it was created. What difference would Pakistan then have with India?

The difference is being a slave and a free man

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The difference is being a slave and a free man

Jokes aside, this is very true. You will be amazed how far we go to compromise. Only now the youth are asking questions they were never supposed to ask.