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Pakistani Cobra Crash Further Stresses Tired Fleet

Gryphon

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June 27, 2014
By USMAN ANSARI

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The fatal crash of a Pakistani AH-1 Cobra attack helicopter puts added stress on an aging fleet. (Aamir Qureshi/AFP)

ISLAMABAD — The fatal crash of a Pakistan AH-1F Cobra helicopter gunship during a night training mission Wednesday has further whittled down the well-worn fleet at a time when it is engaged in efforts to cleanse North Waziristan of the Taliban and its allies.

Though the type of helicopter was not specified in any reports or statements, official sources gave off-the-record confirmation to Defense News that it was a Cobra gunship.

Though the cause of the crash, which killed the two crew, is still being investigated, it is thought a dust storm that blew up over the base in Multan, which is home to the Army’s aviation arm, was a factor.

Pakistan has been desperately trying to replace its 1980s era Cobra fleet for years, but has only managed to acquire a small number of surplus AH-1Fs from the US and ex-Jordanian helos.

However, analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said the platform could soldier on until a replacement is found.

“I think the Cobra fleet would endure for a while. We have excellent maintenance and now overhaul facilities for them,” he said.

A small number of armed Airbus Helicopters AS550C3 Fennec helicopters were ordered to support the Cobras, but there is no sign yet of them in service.

Former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said 10 may have been ordered alongside the unarmed variant (of which one may have crashed in Islamabad in March 2011), but he is unsure if they were actually delivered.

Pakistan has not been able to obtain assistance from the US in this area. Efforts to acquire the AH-64 Apache were rebuffed by Washington, and what was considered the most likely alternative, the AH-1Z Viper, now also appears unlikely to be supplied.

This has left the Turkish TAI T-129 and the Chinese CAIC WZ-10 as the types most likely to replace the Cobra over the long term.

Turkey has attempted to sell the T-129 to Pakistan. It offered an initial number of T-129s free of charge and help to set up an assembly facility at the home of Pakistan’s aviation industry in Kamra, near Islamabad.

However, China is also reportedly offering its WZ-10, and even Turkish officials admit Beijing will be able to offer more flexible payment options.

To complicate matters further, Pakistan is also negotiating with Russia for a number of Mi-35 Hind gunships.

Pakistan already has a small number of Hind gunships that it acquired from defecting Afghan crews in the 1980s, and there has been talk of refurbishing them and bringing them into service.

But Cloughley says these airframes “are past usability.”

He is optimistic, though, that a deal will soon be signed.

“I don’t know the status of the Mi-35 deal, but Moscow is very keen to provide them and it only needs a go-ahead for things to move swiftly,” he said.

Another possible alternative, he said, is the Sikorsky Battlehawk.

The AH-60L Battlehawk has been ordered by the UAE, but Shabbir is unsure if Pakistan will opt for this.

“Maybe if it comes from US funding; it is not a dedicated gunship like Cobra, so the need to find a replacement for Cobras will still be there,” he said.

Cloughley, however, says finances again may force the decision.

“The Chinese machine apparently on offer, the Z-10, doesn’t measure up to the Mi-35 or go anywhere near the Battlehawk, but of course, as usual, it will all come down to money,” he said.

“I think in the long run the Chinese option seems more feasible during to better financial and wider weapons package,” Shabbir said.

Pakistani Cobra Crash Further Stresses Tired Fleet | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
Most of the ex Afghan Hinds are sitting in the junkyards... (pics on the web)... one or two? were given to the USA... the rest were operated by the Army... havent seen em flying since years...
 
“The Chinese machine apparently on offer, the Z-10, doesn’t measure up to the Mi-35 or go anywhere near the Battlehawk, but of course, as usual, it will all come down to money,” he said.
You don't need the expensive Battlehawk or the Apache attack choppers for clobbering the terrorists. The cheaper Chinese Z-10 is eminently suitable for the job.

But, yes, if it's against India, then the story is different. You'll need nothing less than choppers of the Apache class.
 
T-129 talks have furthered a lot. Pakistan reportedly wants T-129B with local production. The cost issue would be mitigated by Mi-35s joining hands with AH-1S while the Fs will take a rest and slowly phased out by ATAK-Bs.
 
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we must think about this.......

Stop thinking of T-129, because US has intervened in this deal & stopped Turkey from going ahead with this deal with PA because of US made engines.

So look for the available & best options.

WZ10

armed+Chinese+Z-10+Attack+Helicopter+gunship+PLA+Peoples+Liberation+Army+Air+Force+abcdefexport+pakitan+missile+hj10+atgm+rocket+wz-10+radaraam+++WZ-9+turboshaft+engine+firing+4th+5+6+7+8+9akd-10+navy+%25282%2529.jpg


Caic-Wz-10-Attack-Helicopter-China-6.jpg


MI 28 Havoc, because of recent ban lift & PA had shown interest in MI 28 in the past.

mil_mi28_havoc_l2.jpg


mil_mi28_havoc_l8.jpg


T-129 talks have furthered a lot. Pakistan reportedly wants T-129B with local production. The cost issue would be mitigated by Mi-35s joining hands with AH-1S while the Fs will take a rest and slowly phased out by ATAK-Bs.

I don't think so, US has intervened in this deal & has stopped Turkey from going ahead with it.
 
I m not saying we should. But if Egypt can buy Apaches, why couldn't we?

We have paraded ourselves around the world as front line state in war against terror. We should have asked for Apaches instead instead of regenerated Cobras.

T-129 talks have furthered a lot. Pakistan reportedly wants T-129B with local production. The cost issue would be mitigated by Mi-35s joining hands with AH-1S while the Fs will take a rest and slowly phased out by ATAK-Bs.

What is the diference between A and B version of Atak and can you please share your source or link here? :)
 
So as per this article, the Mi-35s that Pakistan is getting are not new. Hmmm.

Chinese WZ10 seems to be the only option for now.


I m not saying we should. But if Egypt can buy Apaches, why couldn't we?

We have paraded ourselves around the world as front line state in war against terror. We should have asked for Apaches instead instead of regenerated Cobras.

The article clearly says that Washington rebuffed Pakistan on sale of Apache.
 
During the first tenure of George Bush Jr approved 8 Apache for Pakistan army , but never delivered .
 
We have paraded ourselves around the world as front line state in war against terror. We should have asked for Apaches instead instead of regenerated Cobras.
AH-1Z (Cobra Zulu's) are an impressive platform compared to the older AH-1 Cobra's, and compare pretty favorably with the Apache's.
 
You don't need the expensive Battlehawk or the Apache attack choppers for clobbering the terrorists. The cheaper Chinese Z-10 is eminently suitable for the job.

But, yes, if it's against India, then the story is different. You'll need nothing less than choppers of the Apache class.
I believe the idea is to spend a little more on a system that would serve BOTH internal COIN roles as well as in potential conventional conflicts with a foreign adversary.
 
Chinese helicopter is not a tested platform and that could both be a challenge and opportunity. Turkish ATAK seem to be the most modern and most accessible technology to Pakistan right now.

I m no defense expert but I m still not sure what is purpose of Mi-35 when a dedicated and more modern Mi-28 looks like a better choice, at least on paper
 

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