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Pakistan, Turkey sign three documents elevating defence industry cooperation to a new level

Well lets hope for best , TF-X is a interesting project.

For now , the cooperative agreement on Corvettes , T-129 and Cooperation in Aviation sector greatly welcomed sign of better defence partnership

56728807-Pakistan-flag-combined-with-turkey-flag-Stock-Photo.jpg

  • MILGEM Ada class corvettes project.:tup::tup:
  • Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) for collaboration in the aviation field.:tup::tup:
  • Super Mushak (52 Units Delivey Project):tup::tup:

Congrats to our Military/Navy/Airforce personnel and nation
 
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Regardless, of how so many emotional Pakistani's on this forum think that our generals are complete idiots along with our government. I remember you clowns crying about Jf-17 when it first came out how it wasn't good enough for you. How do you like it now that block3 is on the way?

When we first got Mirage from France were they able to carry Nukes? Are they now? Hell ya
Did you ever think jf-17 would have aesa radar when it first came out?
Did you ever think agosta 90 would fire Cruise Missiles?

You guys remind me of the Indian satalite specialist haha.

You people pretend you know better which ship to pick based on the written spec's? Better then someone who has trained, tested, inside knowledge, hands on experience, Trained his entire life for the moment?
Knows more details about Indian systems then anyone one here?

Same goes for the MILGEM class just watch what we do with it when it finally arrives. All you keyboard warrior's please don't try to tell me you know better then high ranking naval officer of Pakistani navy, which ship we need.

Also please remember pakistan has a very small costal line to protect compared to India. and Being a defensive force, We need a fraction of naval power to protect our costal line.

With all the goodies Pak navy is getting we are more then enough to protect our tiny costal line.
 
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"If you take by two times you need to return by four times" - a Persian saying

The Sultan asked for Dua at the darkest moment of the history, the sub-continental Muslims returned Deva. Pak in the minds of the Turkish folks is the heir to the legacy of the great Muslim states. The minister has alluded to that understanding at the sate level affairs. Now, it's time for the payback. The rest are all details....
The Arabs of Palestine, Syria, Yemen, Iraq and many other Arab countries are paying the cost of breaking the Ottoman empire.
 
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As much as I deeply love and respect Pakistani people for their history, courage and willpower - you're by far the most interesting people in the Islamic world - I've strong doubts about Pakistan's participation in this project.

Personally, I don't think that Pakistan will be a major partner except for industrial cooperation and production of certain parts. This is not a defense issue, it's rather politics. What we people on PDF unfortunately refuse to believe is India's scope of influence in the United Kingdom.

It's true, Brexit is a huge opportunity for Turkey. I'm convinced that Brexit was/is one of the main reasons for the Brits to work together with us on this critical project. But Brexit also created new dependencies for the UK in reference to a new foreign policy.

I'm afraid that India's importance for London has strongly increased. India is not powerful enough to stop cooperation between two NATO partners and allies like London and Ankara. But they're going to put pressure on UK to ensure that Pakistan will stay out of this project. At the end of the day, the British gov't promised many times a comprehensive FTA with India. It should be pointed out that negotiations between EU and UK could end without a satisfying outcome. If this happens, London will do anything to ink a trade deal with India. This time New Delhi holds the whip hand.

Of course, once this project is completed, Pakistan will likely buy some subsidized planes. However, I'm firmly convinced that India's goal is to reduce the possible knowhow Pakistan could gain from this project.

Maybe I'm too one-sided in my analysis?

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @The Eagle @Blue Marlin @Bilal Khan 777 @Arsalan @HRK @Horus @Zarvan @Oscar @TOPGUN @monitor @Rashid Mahmood @Muhammad Omar @AZADPAKISTAN2009 et al.
I think I find no reason to disagree with you, you are quite right in saying that Brexist has created opportunities for many countries they will be benefited based on two things
1- Size & Depth of their Economy
2- Their political & social influence with in the British society, in this case diaspora of different countries in UK will have to play important role for the countries of their origin

In short run Indians may have edge over us, but for long run keep in mind our penetration in political system of UK is almost equivalent if not more then Indian community in UK, secondly our area of interest will be different as we rather to go for systems are currently aiming to develop human resource & the infrastructure which can take on the challenge to develop NGF at home so we might find it comparatively easy to have relationship in certain areas which are currently denied to us.

I see integration of PAC in TFX program as first step in this direction; keep in mind PAC is not just a manufacturing complex but it also have educational foundations as well & these will sets its path of evolution in aeronautical industry.

Our engagement with China at different level & at different programs will stay, in fact I expect our immediate NGF solution from China which I hope will increase our existing knowledge base to a great extent, UK is just an Additional Option not a Necessary Choice.
 
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It is not my intention to belittle Pakistan. Pakistanis are still ahead of Turkey in many critical technologies regarding the defense industry. Still, I'm a hardcore realist. I see the current situation of GB in Europe and London's enthusiasm for India's consumer market. When it comes to economy, the British will always choose India over Pakistan. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're right. If this is the case, I sincerely apologize.
Oh na man, u dont have to apologize, brothers dont have to extend formalities, if we are ahead in some defence fields, turkey is way way ahead of us in a hundred other defence fields, that is why i think turkey n pakistan should continue to take collaboration in defence tech to new heights undettered by that jealous woman knwn as india, moreover i dont think india will ever attempt to bully britain cause they need those trade agreements as much as britain, , moreover britain might be just a collaborator on the program not a partner, the major reason in my opinion why britian might raise a few eyebrows is the possibility of western 5th gen knw how leaking to the chinese side if pakistan is involved..but there is another angle to this, involvement of pakistan n we might be able to convinve the chinese to put in their input on tfx or even get them involved full scale n believe me chinese input will be way more important than britains as china is the only other nation apart from Us which has a working 5th gen jet of their own n are in the final stages of dishing out a second one...in the end whatevers best for turkey n believe me every success of turkey is cheered by every pakistani...
 
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As much as I deeply love and respect Pakistani people for their history, courage and willpower - you're by far the most interesting people in the Islamic world - I've strong doubts about Pakistan's participation in this project.

Personally, I don't think that Pakistan will be a major partner except for industrial cooperation and production of certain parts. This is not a defense issue, it's rather politics. What we people on PDF unfortunately refuse to believe is India's scope of influence in the United Kingdom.

It's true, Brexit is a huge opportunity for Turkey. I'm convinced that Brexit was/is one of the main reasons for the Brits to work together with us on this critical project. But Brexit also created new dependencies for the UK in reference to a new foreign policy.

I'm afraid that India's importance for London has strongly increased. India is not powerful enough to stop cooperation between two NATO partners and allies like London and Ankara. But they're going to put pressure on UK to ensure that Pakistan will stay out of this project. At the end of the day, the British gov't promised many times a comprehensive FTA with India. It should be pointed out that negotiations between EU and UK could end without a satisfying outcome. If this happens, London will do anything to ink a trade deal with India. This time New Delhi holds the whip hand.

Of course, once this project is completed, Pakistan will likely buy some subsidized planes. However, I'm firmly convinced that India's goal is to reduce the possible knowhow Pakistan could gain from this project.

Maybe I'm too one-sided in my analysis?

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @The Eagle @Blue Marlin @Bilal Khan 777 @Arsalan @HRK @Horus @Zarvan @Oscar @TOPGUN @monitor @Rashid Mahmood @Muhammad Omar @AZADPAKISTAN2009 et al.

As I can see that many of friends here actually added and replied to your observation which is, IMO, another side of picture as well. I will just add a bit into this from my understanding which is not neccessirily to be exact and proven.

With reference to your mentioning of UK Brexit, it is true that post brexit, UK will explore more markets and will reach to many countries in this regard but the same, IMO, wouldn't be used as an opportunity to exploit as well as to have an influence in return. UK is free and we see very less of her being influenced when it comes to Pakistan India as both countries holds their independent relations and UK wouldn't side with anyone.

Now about TFX project, as as I know from the TAI (Trukiye) and BAE (UK) contract on the subject, it was clearly stated that Trukiye will have full authority and freedom in TFX program whether it is about partnering or selling to any customer. I am sure, full authority means that both parties will respect each other's decision and will abide by the contract and that was the time when Turkiye, being aware of contract at fully, invited Pakistan for TFX so it validates that any influence upon BAE/UK has less chances under these developments.

Such contract does not prove that we are going to buy TFX or we are partnering the program by full scale, as of yet but on other hand, IMO, it would be more about utilizing PAC/PAF expertise being in field since long as well as having experience and well reputed AF along with parterning JF-17/FC-1 program that taught us enough till now. IMO, PAC rule would be more of into specific areas related to TFX to deliver our expertise and in return, Pakistan will be getting the knowledge that as of yet, we are missing which is more about Pakistan's Next Generation Fighter (NGF). PAF ACM stated in past that PAF will be working on NGF, a fighter of our own in next generation class so it can be assumed that either the knowledge gained from China & Turkiye will be utilized for the same or any of these program like FC-31 or TFX would be brought and will be utilized to build our own version of NGF.

There are still important things that are not clear till now as whether Pakistan will acquire initially a 5th Generation Program as per need or it is only going to be the NGF. However, as the rumors are in the air, the best area of interest w.r.t. to 5th Generation Bird for PAF, was somehow dicussed as it is going to be FC-31. Now if we go by the same logic, I can see that may be, we will use our knowledge gained from TFX, for our version of like FC-31 and there is a whole new bird for PAF. May be partnering with China & Turkiye will help us to have our own version of 5th Generation Plane either based upon FC-31, an altered FC-31 or based upon TFX, as the same is still unclear. However, FC-31 is flying in prototype and progressing further whereby TFX has to feel the air that I think is reported around 2023-2025. It is true that, our economy currently does not allow Pakistan being partner in TFX with full spectrum of funding but on other hand, money is not everything but experience and knowledge counts more than it hence, PAC will be taking part in TFX in specific areas of expertise.

In my limited knowledge, seems like PAC will be participating in TFX only related to few areas of having knowledge while on other hand, it would be to learn more from TFX as the same is going to be one of the best Western type tech programs. Turkiye is well experienced and being a NATO ally, can produce high quality tech and especially as BAE is partnering, IMO, it was more about to gain more knowledge from TFX and share whatever we have gained from JF-17 as well as our experience as being one of well reputed Air Forces. Just for a short add-on, JF-17 cockpit designed is based upon the experience and knowledge as well as expertise of PAF Pilots.

I hope that the same program, read TFX, will bring more fruit to the both of nation and may fulfill the need that our people have been working day & night. Rest about TFX being in Pakistan Colour, how come someone will never wish of it until & unless our enemies. TAI & BAE speaks volume that anyone can expect the quality of TFX. May be, Pakistan will participate in subjected program as per expertise in lieu of funding and then, will have to pay less than any other customer as the much amount will compensated against our share of knowledge that I see as another possibility to have TFX in our colour.
 
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As I can see that many of friends here actually added and replied to your observation which is, IMO, another side of picture as well. I will just add a bit into this from my understanding which is not neccessirily to be exact and proven.

With reference to your mentioning of UK Brexit, it is true that post brexit, UK will explore more markets and will reach to many countries in this regard but the same, IMO, wouldn't be used as an opportunity to exploit as well as to have an influence in return. UK is free and we see very less of her being influenced when it comes to Pakistan India as both countries holds their independent relations and UK wouldn't side with anyone.

Now about TFX project, as as I know from the TAI (Trukiye) and BAE (UK) contract on the subject, it was clearly stated that Trukiye will have full authority and freedom in TFX program whether it is about partnering or selling to any customer. I am sure, full authority means that both parties will respect each other's decision and will abide by the contract and that was the time when Turkiye, being aware of contract at fully, invited Pakistan for TFX so it validates that any influence upon BAE/UK has less chances under these developments.

Such contract does not prove that we are going to buy TFX or we are partnering the program by full scale, as of yet but on other hand, IMO, it would be more about utilizing PAC/PAF expertise being in field since long as well as having experience and well reputed AF along with parterning JF-17/FC-1 program that taught us enough till now. IMO, PAC rule would be more of into specific areas related to TFX to deliver our expertise and in return, Pakistan will be getting the knowledge that as of yet, we are missing which is more about Pakistan's Next Generation Fighter (NGF). PAF ACM stated in past that PAF will be working on NGF, a fighter of our own in next generation class so it can be assumed that either the knowledge gained from China & Turkiye will be utilized for the same or any of these program like FC-31 or TFX would be brought and will be utilized to build our own version of NGF.

There are still important things that are not clear till now as whether Pakistan will acquire initially a 5th Generation Program as per need or it is only going to be the NGF. However, as the rumors are in the air, the best area of interest w.r.t. to 5th Generation Bird for PAF, was somehow dicussed as it is going to be FC-31. Now if we go by the same logic, I can see that may be, we will use our knowledge gained from TFX, for our version of like FC-31 and there is a whole new bird for PAF. May be partnering with China & Turkiye will help us to have our own version of 5th Generation Plane either based upon FC-31, an altered FC-31 or based upon TFX, as the same is still unclear. However, FC-31 is flying in prototype and progressing further whereby TFX has to feel the air that I think is reported around 2023-2025. It is true that, our economy currently does not allow Pakistan being partner in TFX with full spectrum of funding but on other hand, money is not everything but experience and knowledge counts more than it hence, PAC will be taking part in TFX in specific areas of expertise.

In my limited knowledge, seems like PAC will be participating in TFX only related to few areas of having knowledge while on other hand, it would be to learn more from TFX as the same is going to be one of the best Western type tech programs. Turkiye is well experienced and being a NATO ally, can produce high quality tech and especially as BAE is partnering, IMO, it was more about to gain more knowledge from TFX and share whatever we have gained from JF-17 as well as our experience as being one of well reputed Air Forces. Just for a short add-on, JF-17 cockpit designed is based upon the experience and knowledge as well as expertise of PAF Pilots.

I hope that the same program, read TFX, will bring more fruit to the both of nation and may fulfill the need that our people have been working day & night. Rest about TFX being in Pakistan Colour, how come someone will never wish of it until & unless our enemies. TAI & BAE speaks volume that anyone can expect the quality of TFX. May be, Pakistan will participate in subjected program as per expertise in lieu of funding and then, will have to pay less than any other customer as the much amount will compensated against our share of knowledge that I see as another possibility to have TFX in our colour.
The ideal situation would be that Pak/Turkey do a JV on TFX and Qatar/UAE/KSA/Jordan/Egypt/Pak/Turkey and other such countries sort of put in a joint order. Each country according to their needs. It would drastically bring down the cost per fighter. But that's more of a dream and would most likely not happen.
 
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Regardless, of how so many emotional Pakistani's on this forum think that our generals are complete idiots along with our government. I remember you clowns crying about Jf-17 when it first came out how it wasn't good enough for you. How do you like it now that block3 is on the way?

When we first got Mirage from France were they able to carry Nukes? Are they now? Hell ya
Did you ever think jf-17 would have aesa radar when it first came out?
Did you ever think agosta 90 would fire Cruise Missiles?

You guys remind me of the Indian satalite specialist haha.

You people pretend you know better which ship to pick based on the written spec's? Better then someone who has trained, tested, inside knowledge, hands on experience, Trained his entire life for the moment?
Knows more details about Indian systems then anyone one here?

Same goes for the MILGEM class just watch what we do with it when it finally arrives. All you keyboard warrior's please don't try to tell me you know better then high ranking naval officer of Pakistani navy, which ship we need.

Also please remember pakistan has a very small costal line to protect compared to India. and Being a defensive force, We need a fraction of naval power to protect our costal line.

With all the goodies Pak navy is getting we are more then enough to protect our tiny costal line.
Yes, where has that "I know all- Pak knows nothing" satellite troll gone??

Great staffs start as a dream.
The ideal situation would be that Pak/Turkey do a JV on TFX and Qatar/UAE/KSA/Jordan/Egypt/Pak/Turkey and other such countries sort of put in a joint order. Each country according to their needs. It would drastically bring down the cost per fighter. But that's more of a dream and would most likely not happen.

Great staffs start as a dream - conquest of Istanbul, creation of Pak etc.
 
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4 More ships a welcomed move for Navy

PakistaniShips.png


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Also nice achivement for the Super Mushak plane sale


  1. Look forward to the T-129 Deal conclusion
 
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