Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

[星海军事]

WS 10 is in the same class as GE110 engine.

The target engine should be a WS-15 class.

 

[Battlion25]

The target engine should be a WS-15 class.

The final design will be local turbofine engine

 

[Ghessan]

Given the key roles played by Pakistan, one cannot ignore the fact that Pakistan can bring in Chinese help to power PT-FX as well.

since you bring in PT-FX

so does it mean both Turkey and Pakistan can go to their own choice of engine? how is it possible?

 

[Qutb-ud-din-Aibak]

It will have 100% indigenous Turkish Turbofine engine

 

[Indos]

The final design will be local turbofine engine

The design will be the same, the local turbojet engine will mimic F 110 engine

 

[YeBeWarned]

What it could mean that PAC is looking for Turkish expertise in their own AZM, its pretty obvious that T-FX will fly before AZM and turks have far more experience with Aviation then Pakistan, specially because of Turks exposures to Europeans and American companies, I think its just a, thing as we call it in Pakistan, " Bhai ke liye itna bhi nai kare ga ab " ?

 

[Riz]

I mean no disrespect to my country but it feels a little embarrassing when Turkish brothers are being too polite.

1. we have no technological base in aviation (Mirage rebuild and JF-17 assembly don't make us eligible for something as complex as 5th Generation partnership). secondly I am at loss to think what can we offer to Turks in terms of aviation know how which they don't have already.
2. Other limitation is financial health, Turks need a GCC sleeping partner that is willing to sign the USD cheques without a problem with a promise that it will get something comparable to F-35 in the end which the Americans are currently reluctant to supply.

looking at the habits of Pakistani posters, they will wave the Ummah card and will demand the Turks to first design and develop that jet to PDF wish list and then hand it over for free and also provide money for its maintenance and running., failing that will will result in Turkey being down graded to Iran's level of hatred,

You are right, but to be frank there is definitely something which we had offered to them and they could not decline

 

[arjunk]

Endians will shit their pants when they see this

Azad Kashmir superpower by 2030

 

[Zhukov]

Collaboration with advanced weapon industry like turkey is good decision. But is this really the best option?.
Turkey has strong economy and can procure from multiple sources. Pakistan on the other hand has limited sources and bad economy. And we will be solely dependent on this program for our future Jet.
Besides, all the western tech turkey have is offlimit to us thanks to our relations with USA. Only Turkish indeginiois tech is available. So the turkish TFX can have as much as US tech as they want while our AZM will have only Turkish or our own tech.

Hope for the best. But things look complicated. (TAI 129 Helicopters flashbacks)

 

[Deino]

Only Hurdle for PAF are engines

where is the engine going to come form? and what about armaments? can turks make BVR as capable as meteor or PL15?

Just to be clear, the biggest hurdle both Turkey & Pakistan face is the Engine.

And TAI wants to fit a F110-GE-129 to test and aircraft, only to replace it with something they're not certain about - to date.

Now I'm no Engineer, but let's use Commercial Aviation as a reference and the issue BOEING faced with the latest variant of the B737-MAX.

By introducing the new cfm LEAP-1B on a 40 Year old airframe changed the dynamics completely as the size of the Engine got bigger, compared to its previous variant (cfm 56), but it also possibly changed the Weight and Balance. And to fix the difference, they introduced the MCAS. That f#*kup led to two disastrous crashes (Lion Air & Ethiopian Airlines). Eventually leading to the Aircraft being Grounded Worldwide*.

Q. How can TAI/PAC fit a GE, do all the Test and then later replace it with XYZ?
@JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

*By the way, I recommend everyone to watch Netflix's - DOWNFALL: The case against BOEING

Exactly and as such I see two points of concern due to two different paths this project can proceed:

1. Both variants will use the same engine:

I still see barely a chance that Turkey can develop an own engine for that heavy fighter up to their schedule (2028) and even if any cooperation projects mentioned above based on either a RR or GE design will result in such an engine - as long as it is using Western engines - I see no chance for Pakistan to get them especially due to Pakistan's close connections to China. As such I'm sure, either Turkey has to rewrite its schedule for the definitive variant due to delays or it means the Pakistani variant will use a different engine.

2. Pakistan's variant will use a different engine

As per my information the most likely option will be a Chinese-supplied engine and the latest J-10C assumes it to be a WS-10-based design rather what some suggest a WS-15. (Indeed; I've heard rumours too a +145kN WS-10-variant is being proposed) I cannot think that China would sell its crown-jewel on engine technology to a project, which has Western connections. Anyway, such a Chinese engine - supplied in a similar way like Russia one supplied the AL-31FN to China for its J-10 - however requires again changes to the airframe in comparison to the Turkish variant and as such delays for the PAF ...

Either way, it is unique and again delaying development to build an aircraft specified for three vastly different engines: GE-129 for the prototypes, then one for Turkey with an own engine and eventually a Pakistani variant using a Chinese one.

Endians will shit their pants when they see this
View attachment 817793

Azad Kashmir superpower by 2030

Why that yellow part of the wing?

 

[Bilal.]

Why that yellow part of the wing?

Azad Kashmir Flag.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

Just for my knowledge, I want to ask why Pakistan choose turkey for its 5th Generation Fighter and not let's say China?

China is not offering us any

 

[Trailer23]

I had a feeling you had seen the documentary while I was reading your post lol.

Watched it during Cruise on a B737-Max.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

This is exactly what I am looking for, an answer to a very legitimate question of 'why will they choose us'? Looks only possible when the timeline is pretty long, in my humble opinion.

They are not "choosing us" we are "choosing them". We are their first, and the only customer so far. They won't be giving us the fighters for free we will be purchasing them.

 

[EternalMortal]

Some of you are jumping the gun but in reverse due to that SavunmaSanayiST tweet which said the MERGER of the MMU & AZM NGAF is not true.

However, the TAI CEO said they're collaborating on a "Turkish-Pakistani" fighter. Furthermore, if you watch the video the Pakistani AVM/VP NSTP CONFIRMED it right after so it wasn't just the CEO exaggerating & being "cute".

Merger & collaboration are mutually exclusive. I agree people jumped the gun on the merger part but the collaboration is definitely there.

@JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @RadarGudumluMuhimmat @kursed