Pakistan threatens to withdraw troops from Pak-Afghan border

[Tshering22]

there is no terror network in Pakistan....why dont u get out of Occupied Kashmir and A,P.....dont worry Americans have lost and are leaving within a year or two....then u know what will happen

What will happen? You will return to rule Afghanistan? Such dreams. Why should we get out of our own territory? You fancy getting out of Sindh and NWFP? The same equation for us. You can claim and contend the whole world for all we care. BTW just stick to the topic will you? We're talking about who's going to be your new boss and how you should deal with him.

Open a different thread in other sections regarding our territories.

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

On the Indian border, their usual place of deployment.

PA has no major cantonments on the Afghan Border and the current deployment from Indian border is in operational areas, thus once they are relieved from here, they will move back to their permanent bases, which are close to the Indian border.

But Kayani recently withdrew significant troops from our border.

 

[foxbat]

Seriously ?? Are you being sarcastic or being naive ???

Did US/NATO conduct any kind of operation and that also with success as PA did in Swat, SWA, Bajaur & Mohmand ??

Don't think so.

And had drone strikes been so effective, US/NATO forces in Afghanistan would have been seeing the benefits of it, but attacks on them have seen to be rising with taliban controlling more and more territory in Afghanistan. Whole districts and provinces have been left on the mercy of the Taliban, with US/NATO running away and leaving their bases and posts.

US/NATO whines about the Taliban in the NWA, but they forget to mentioned that how come 70% of Afghanistan is being ruled by Taliban ?? I am sure, the taliban in NWA are not using web or virtual reality to control the 70% of Afghanistan, there much be Taliban physically present right in those 70% of territory that they are in control of.

So why not you ask the US/NATO that how the hell 70% Afghanistan is under Taliban control right under your noses and you whine about the militants in NWA ?? Wht has US/NATO done to control that 70% territory except for running away and conceding more to the Taliban ??

I am sure you guys will never ask such questions, as you are Indians.

Neither mate.. Well, a little flippant, maybe..

This naive and illogical argument of NATO not being able to control whole of afg has been thrown around quite a bit on this forum. But hardly an argument. Do you expect a 150K odd troops to control whole of Afghanistan when the same size of your army can not control the complete NWFP even. A little silly .. innit??

Effectiveness is judged from the output and not statistics. At the end of the day, OBL is eliminated. USA has not seen a terror attack of significance since 9/11.. I would say they have been damn effective. If I was a US citizen, I wouldnt care too much about what happens in Afghanistan or Pakistan as long as my military keep the US shores secure. And they have been able to do that pretty effectively.. No??

I guess you will never see it this way, as you are Pakistanis.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

there is no terror network in Pakistan....why dont u get out of Occupied Kashmir and A,P.....dont worry Americans have lost and are leaving within a year or two....then u know what will happen

No we dont know. Please enlighten us.

Maximum Pak can do is turn the Afghans against us through Taliban..but then Taliban was always against us in the past also..so doesnt make a difference. If you think that PA will be free to go against India, then It would hurt Pak more than any other nation.

We also have a card with Iran Printed on it.

 

[Last Hope]

Why do that Bhartis care?! Like they say, its our land and what we want, we will do. Who the hell are you to talk about it? You want our troops to die and die over, so when Amreekans leave, you dont have a problem from Pakistani troops with the minimized quantity?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Neither mate.. Well, a little flippant, maybe..

This naive and illogical argument of NATO not being able to control whole of afg has been thrown around quite a bit on this forum. But hardly an argument. Do you expect a 150K odd troops to control whole of Afghanistan when the same size of your army can not control the complete NWFP even. A little silly .. innit??

Effectiveness is judged from the output and not statistics. At the end of the day, OBL is eliminated. USA has not seen a terror attack of significance since 9/11.. I would say they have been damn effective. If I was a US citizen, I wouldnt care too much about what happens in Afghanistan or Pakistan as long as my military keep the US shores secure. And they have been able to do that pretty effectively.. No??

I guess you will never see it this way, as you are Pakistanis.

If US/NATO can send 500K+ troops to Iraq to stabilize it, then off course they can do a little better then to send 150K troops to control whole of Afghanistan. Don't think its such a naive or illogical question. Facts speak. In your case facts don't speak up. As said, being Indians you guys can't ask the US/NATO that why can't they send 250K or 300K troops atleast when they could send 500K+ troops in Iraq. I hope you do know the answer to that. May be the US troops may have not controlled the whole of Afghanistan, but may be the 70% figure would have been much lesser or atleast the borders could have been watched a little bit more carefully and infiltration checked.

Yeah, they have been damn effective since they did not wanted another 9/11 to happen, as one 9/11 has and had already done the work they needed it to do. When they require another 9/11 to happen, am pretty damn sure, it will happen again. And yeah, they may have hypothetically secured their borders, but in the process have lost thousands also and more will follow with an very unstable world, when compared to pre-9/11 situation of the world. But its expected of US, as they damn care who and how many die till their objectives are met. But may be hard for you Indians to understand that.

And yeah we do see from each way, as we are Pakistanis, but hard for Indians to do that, since all that matters to them is how to bash Pakistan.

 

[Bill Longley]

Today during corp commanders conference nothing was said about stoppage of US aid or withdrawl from FATA. Instead Operations in Mohmand and Khurram were discussed and Issue of return of IDP's back to Mohmand

So no need for this mindless debate

Secondly If PAK-US relations detoriate first sign will be Stoppage of US supply from Pakistani Side.

until then enjoy the NOORA KUSHTI. US statements are for US domestic audience and Pakistani Statements for Pakistani Audience

 

[araz]

we should immediately withdraw the troops....loyal tribal Pakistanis will defend it just like they were before 9/11 when there was not a single suicide blast inside Pakistan....Quaid e Azam did the same and we saw this border was the most safest place on planet from 1947 uptill 2001 untill war-mongerers came to our neighbourhood and invited all the anti-Pakistani spy agencies too in the form of consulates,construction builders and pirvate security guards....
we incurred 80 billion dollar worth of loss...40,000 people dead...inorder to make america safe we made our country a hell and that too for aid.....there is a huge gap between civilians and state institutions....go out in the public and u will know....these politicians are just liars cause they have accounts in american banks telling people america is our friends and other bullcrap.....this i think is the final chance....army is the only institution that can now take a stand and redeem the self-respect of ordinary Pakistani.
now is the time to test some long range ballistic missiles that we have in queue

There is so much of a contradiction to your post that I dont know where to start.
With all due respects, the tribals have been anything but loyal to pakistan. Just like the rest of pakistani community they have looked at their own petty interests ahead of pakistani interests. If you have forgotten, let me remind you that we have repeatedly tried to negotiate with the tribals during the time of musharraf and failed. They have their own vested interests which regard money and arms above loyalty to Pakistan. I would remind you that it is not outsiders that were doing the dirty deeds for various other nations interfering within pakistan, for the sake of money . it was our own people.
I agree with the gist of the post that we should look at how to withdraw our forces, but a withdrawal without a tangible solution will leed to more chaos. Also we need to understand that we have an arrangement with the Americans which as a responsible nation we need to honour. You might disagree with it all you like but at a national and international level, if you dont honour your ocmmitment you would be labelled as irresponsible with disasterous consequences. This situation needs to be argued and the tables turned with a cohesive and convincing story of why you want out of this coalition. You also need to reiterate that it is not you that is reneging on the deal but the NATO forces. You will need to have a very convincing case especially in the light of recent developments in Abbotabad.
Secondly what contingency is there to prevent incursions into your border. What plan does the Government have to prevent misadventure from across the border and not leave its citizens at the mercy of these holigans.
So all in all the situation is not a s clear cut as you think.And No the tribals will only look after themselves once PA is gone.!!!
Araz

 

[araz]

Today during corp commanders conference nothing was said about stoppage of US aid or withdrawl from FATA. Instead Operations in Mohmand and Khurram were discussed and Issue of return of IDP's back to Mohmand

So no need for this mindless debate

Secondly If PAK-US relations detoriate first sign will be Stoppage of US supply from Pakistani Side.

until then enjoy the NOORA KUSHTI. US statements are for US domestic audience and Pakistani Statements for Pakistani Audience

Bill
What the people here are not realizing is the fact that when America speaks the whole world believes it without any argument. Whereas even if we present solid evidence ,it is looked at with suspicion.My fear is that all the web of lies will come back to haunt us one of these days. I think we are heading into a direction where the tables can be turned on us very easily. You just have to read the international press to see how we are being maligned and the world opinion slowly being brought round to the fact that we are the axis of evil now and the source of all the mischief in the world. This along with the listless governance of our useless numb skull rulers is what is going to be the down fall of us.
Araz

 

[Bill Longley]

Bill
What the people here are not realizing is the fact that when America speaks the whole world believes it without any argument. Whereas even if we present solid evidence ,it is looked at with suspicion.My fear is that all the web of lies will come back to haunt us one of these days. I think we are heading into a direction where the tables can be turned on us very easily. You just have to read the international press to see how we are being maligned and the world opinion slowly being brought round to the fact that we are the axis of evil now and the source of all the mischief in the world. This along with the listless governance of our useless numb skull rulers is what is going to be the down fall of us.
Araz

Bro as Old Chinese Saying goes "Every Conflict is an Opportunity" Yes wolves are coming together against Pakistan. But Pakistan is not week and they know it. Its a psychological war un fortunately our media is not playing its part but by grace of Allah you can feel in preception change in Masses. 10 years back our thinking pattern was different from todays. Now no Mullah, Politican or leader is sacred Goat. every one has been exposed.
people are realizing things and now are more informed and balanced

US bulling is benifiting us as with every santion every insult our Mental freedom comes near.
I am very Positive. InshaAllah in 5 years we will be free people. The more they Push us the more realization we Get and more thirst for independence and self reliance we feel

Pakistan will Prevail... in Oven of present set up a new Pakistan is taking birth

 

[foxbat]

If US/NATO can send 500K+ troops to Iraq to stabilize it, then off course they can do a little better then to send 150K troops to control whole of Afghanistan. Don't think its such a naive or illogical question. Facts speak. In your case facts don't speak up. As said, being Indians you guys can't ask the US/NATO that why can't they send 250K or 300K troops atleast when they could send 500K+ troops in Iraq. I hope you do know the answer to that. May be the US troops may have not controlled the whole of Afghanistan, but may be the 70% figure would have been much lesser or atleast the borders could have been watched a little bit more carefully and infiltration checked.

Yeah, they have been damn effective since they did not wanted another 9/11 to happen, as one 9/11 has and had already done the work they needed it to do. When they require another 9/11 to happen, am pretty damn sure, it will happen again. And yeah, they may have hypothetically secured their borders, but in the process have lost thousands also and more will follow with an very unstable world, when compared to pre-9/11 situation of the world. But its expected of US, as they damn care who and how many die till their objectives are met. But may be hard for you Indians to understand that.

And yeah we do see from each way, as we are Pakistanis, but hard for Indians to do that, since all that matters to them is how to bash Pakistan.

Neither India nor Pakistan can define strategic objectives of USA or any other country for that matter. If their strategic objectives are met by securing 30% of Afg but 100% of Iraq, then right or wrong thats what they would do. Why would they really care if the Taliban militants that Pakistan itself supported till some years back are able to easily infiltrate back into Pakistan and cause Mayhem. I dont see them asking Pakistan to come and guard USA borders to prevent terrorists from getting in there. Its your border, you handle it.

I hope for the sake of Afghanistan and Pakistan that another 9/11 doesnt happen. One 9/11 has destroyed Afghanistan and has brought Pakistan pretty close to destruction. The second one.. Well I am not sure the 2 countries will be able to survive it.

And before pointing fingers at USA for not caring who lives or dies, do not forget Pakistan's role in establishing the brutal regime of Taliban in Afghanistan for its own strategic objectives. probably more than thousands died there too..

About India/Pakistan Bashing, well, I dont think either side is a saint in this aspect. If it was this forum wouldnt even get 10% of the posts it gets today ...

 

[salvage]

There is so much of a contradiction to your post that I dont know where to start.
With all due respects, the tribals have been anything but loyal to pakistan. Just like the rest of pakistani community they have looked at their own petty interests ahead of pakistani interests. If you have forgotten, let me remind you that we have repeatedly tried to negotiate with the tribals during the time of musharraf and failed. They have their own vested interests which regard money and arms above loyalty to Pakistan. I would remind you that it is not outsiders that were doing the dirty deeds for various other nations interfering within pakistan, for the sake of money . it was our own people.
I agree with the gist of the post that we should look at how to withdraw our forces, but a withdrawal without a tangible solution will leed to more chaos. Also we need to understand that we have an arrangement with the Americans which as a responsible nation we need to honour. You might disagree with it all you like but at a national and international level, if you dont honour your ocmmitment you would be labelled as irresponsible with disasterous consequences. This situation needs to be argued and the tables turned with a cohesive and convincing story of why you want out of this coalition. You also need to reiterate that it is not you that is reneging on the deal but the NATO forces. You will need to have a very convincing case especially in the light of recent developments in Abbotabad.
Secondly what contingency is there to prevent incursions into your border. What plan does the Government have to prevent misadventure from across the border and not leave its citizens at the mercy of these holigans.
So all in all the situation is not a s clear cut as you think.And No the tribals will only look after themselves once PA is gone.!!!
Araz

sir there were no incursions before 9/11 and this was the safest border on entire globe even without formal policing....did our military installations got attacked before 9/11?this only started once musharaf who was dictator just to secure his future in the form of exile brought dick cheney's war to our country..why did we made american enemies our enemies?will america make Pakistan's enemy india its enemy?taleban were are best allies.
did taleban brought down buildings in Pakistan?did taleban had anything to do with 9/11?
It was united states airforce that turned its radars off deliberately for 10 minutes to allow the second and third plane to hit the second tower and pentagon respectively.what had 40,000 Pakistanis who have died so far had to do with 9/11?we could have liberated Kashmir with such number of sacrifice.
Any anti Pakistani element whether it be indian raw or israeli mossad(brain child of ben Gurion israeli father of occupation who labelled Pakistan as the biggest threat in 1948)who blow stuff in our country and kill our civilians and soldiers gets branded as a taleban....even petty smuggler like mangal bagh became a taleban...what the hell


we should work Quiad e Azam's strategy....FC and tribal connections should be further strengthened and first step should be blocking nato supplies line.....if america wants a war then so be it...if vietnamese farmers can kick their arses then so can nuclear Pakistan....we have a lot options....we can provide nuclear arms like 5 bombs to cuba,5 to venezula,,5 to iran....5 to syria....we can give a serious fight and options are unlimited since we can fire babur cruise missile from a submarine too.
we have 1 million Pakistanis in U.k they will initiate riots...
American public isnt interested in more body bags and with no gold to backup american dollar bill it will succumb

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The United States was able to slip 4 helicopters, loaded with personnel, equipment and cargo, all the way through Pakistan without being detected by even one Pakistani military installation. .

Thanks for your cute post sunny boy,

Our western border is not considered hostile regarding the air threat and hence the air defence and early warning installations there are only on peace time settings and only on few locations.

Hell, the spot where they landed the helicopters was right next to a military base.

You make it sound as if they landed next to the parade ground or the commandant’s office. Do you have any clue about the size of the academy? Its uninhibited suburbs go for miles and still count as part of the academy. And no, the cadets there don’t get radar transplants on their skulls as a part of the training like your guys do, so sorry they didn’t identify those copters for just being the cadets. Sorry we are not as advanced as your chaps at “Dehradun” who might be getting pulse Doppler pills as a part of the feed and their caps come with phased array radars.

The only thing I can think of is that they lack the funding necessary pay for troops to guard the border.
.

Don’t strain yourself too much buddy, I will just give you a hint. Pak Soldiers will get paid whether they are back in the cantonment or they are at the borders.

It obviously is not a strategic decision, that much you can be sure of.

First tell me, do you know what you are saying? Or better still do you know what is meant by a strategic decision? Or you just threw the term to sound nifty?
By the way no decision has been taken and even if it is it will be a tactical move with only short to medium objectives in mind.
The only difference will be that Pak Army wont be too obliged to fill in the gaps for the Predator drones to chase Afghan specific insurgents and will concentrate on enemies of Pakistan and deal with them accordingly as it did in Swat.

 

[salvage]

will concentrate on enemies of Pakistan and deal with them accordingly as it did in Swat.

ditto

this should have been the norm from day one but we went the otherway and concentrated on enemies of america....what do we care who is america's friend or enemy or why should we make america's enemies our enemies inexchange for dollars and dead fellow country men and a crippled economy.
america wont declare india its enemy so we shouldnt declare america's enemy our enemy,,,,,,fair and square

 

[Irfan Baloch]

OMG.. Please say this was a sarcastic post ..... If not, the highlighted parts are really the gems

it helps if you dont encourage and dont respond.

 

[Xestan]

Some people here fail to research on the matter and start trolling as their usual habit, first of all, THIS WASN'T ANY MILITARY AID!

"The CSF is not aid, but reimbursements for money already spent on military operations"

Source : Less US military aid to Pakistan harms relations, not army | Pakistan | DAWN.COM