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Pakistan said re-thinking U.S. F-16 deal

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Pakistan said re-thinking U.S. F-16 deal
25 Oct 2005 18:43:52 GMT
Source: Reuters

By Carol Giacomo, Diplomatic Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Oct 25 (Reuters) - Pakistan is reconsidering its plan to buy scores of new and used American-made F-16 fighter jets following the devastating earthquake that killed 53,000 people, U.S. and Pakistani sources said on Tuesday.

The Bush administration was expected to formally notify the U.S. Congress next week of plans to sell the planes but Pakistani sources told Reuters the deal was being rethought.

"Pakistan is at this time in a situation where we are trying to assess the damages caused by the earthquake and how are we going to cope with tragedy," a Pakistani diplomat said. "The onus would be more on Pakistan whether to go ahead at this time," he said.

A U.S. official said Pakistan was reconsidering the scope and timing of the transfer out of concern for the political and economic impact of making a multibillion dollar arms deal as it still copes with a devastating earthquake that has killed thousands of people.

Pakistan is seeking billions of dollars in relief and reconstruction aid.

The Pakistani diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, did not suggest the deal would be jettisoned. He said there were many options, including delay. "Everything is open to possibility," he added.

Congress has been informally told of plans to provide the South Asian nuclear state with about 55 new Lockheed Martin planes, 25 used aircraft as well as so-called "mid-life" upgrades that would significantly improve the capability of another 32 jets, sources told Reuters.

SALE DECISION SOON

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is to brief the House of Representatives International Relations Committee in classified session next Wednesday. Congressional sources said they expected her to give formal notification of the sale then or soon after.

After formal notification, Congress has 30 days to pass a resolution of disapproval if it wants to block the sale.

India -- Pakistan's South Asia rival -- and some of its supporters in America question the sale. The U.S. India Political Action Committee, which promoted Indian Americans' concerns, said the deal would encourage a regional arms race.

The group said in a statement that after the earthquake "it is very important to concentrate on the aid relief for the affected people rather than the sale of arms."

But a Pakistani diplomat argued the F-16 deal was a "strategic necessity". "You cannot afford to lower your guard or your defenses. At the same time, you have to cope with the rest of the difficulties of life as well," he said.

The administration last March announced its willingness to sell advanced fighter jets to Pakistan, reversing 15 years of U.S. policy aimed at denying Islamabad because of its nuclear weapons program.

It also allowed sales to India, which wants to buy up to 126 fighters, including the F-16s and several non-U.S. planes.

Washington considers Pakistan a pivotal ally in the war against al Qaeda and is working to develop a strategic partnership with India, the world's largest democracy.

Some experts see the Pakistan F-16 sale as balancing the sweeping July 18 U.S.-India nuclear agreement under which President George W. Bush promised New Delhi access to previously restricted nuclear material.

Lockheed Martin <LMT.N> has sold more than 4,400 F16s to the United States and other countries. The firm is scheduled to produce the last F16 in 2008 and has been eager to close the deal with Pakistan in an effort to extend the production line.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N25237423.htm
 
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Thats a Article not a news source, cannot be depended on.Pakistan needs the f-16 baddly but, at the same time save countless lives.Leave the decision up to the govt.
 
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US has no right to say what is right or what is wrong neither does india F-16 as it is need of the time we simply need this jet to balance the imbalance of military power in the region and i agree with the diplomat has he said (argued the F-16 deal was a "strategic necessity". "You cannot afford to lower your guard or your defenses. At the same time, you have to cope with the rest of the difficulties of life as well," he said.)
:tank:
 
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I just simply dont understand why F-16 deal would even get delayed. Majority of funds for military build up is in the military the aid package.

It would be disastrous for PAF if we dont get F-16s. This means no BVR, no advanced WVR, and no better radar stay on crappy APG Block 15 Radar. :ranting:
--

Please note everybody that 25 of them are MLU ones, and only 55 will be brand new ones&#33; :o
 
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Pakistan won&#39;t cancel the deal, it&#39;ll simply delay it for a few months longer. Signing or announcing to sign the deal at this point will just Pakistan and the U.S under the heat, and increase the chances of an embargo. There is no harm waiting another few months, because ultimately, the PAF will get a large number of F-16s.
 
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Originally posted by Bilal Hussain Khan@Oct 26 2005, 07:39 AM
Pakistan won&#39;t cancel the deal, it&#39;ll simply delay it for a few months longer. Signing or announcing to sign the deal at this point will just Pakistan and the U.S under the heat, and increase the chances of an embargo. There is no harm waiting another few months, because ultimately, the PAF will get a large number of F-16s.
[post=1320]Quoted post[/post]​


Bilal easyier said than done myfriend..........we need new and old F-16&#39;s to replace our older fleet ASAP but this shit had to happen as always.
:ranting: :wtf1: :swear:
 
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Originally posted by Best of the Best@Oct 26 2005, 02:18 AM
we need new and old F-16&#39;s to replace our older fleet ASAP but this shit had to happen as always.
[post=1322]Quoted post[/post]​

I still believe there is plenty of life left in the &#39;older&#39; fleet, even though its now reached 100,000 hrs of flying service. I don&#39;t think any of the existing F-16 will be removed from front line duties or cannibalised for parts
 
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Originally posted by F&#045;16.Net@Oct 27 2005, 01:50 AM
I still believe there is plenty of life left in the &#39;older&#39; fleet, even though its now reached 100,000 hrs of flying service. I don&#39;t think any of the existing F-16 will be removed from front line duties or cannibalised for parts
[post=1355]Quoted post[/post]​

Well 1st things 1st welcome to the forum :welcome: :) okay back to the topic, well as long as there a good supply of spares i dont see anything happening to the F-16&#39;s.
But i wasnt talking about the F-16&#39;s what i actually was trying to say was that majority of PAF&#39;s fleet is based on old and obsolete air crafts such as F-7p,Miarges and A-5&#39;s which need replacement ASAP and no dought F-16&#39;s would have turned out to be a excellent stop gap fighter....but this had to happen
:drunk:
 
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Thanks for the welcome :w00t:

I wouldn&#39;t call the F-16 the &#39;stop gap&#39; fighter. Consider several European/NATO based sqn&#39;s regards this as there frontline evolution fighter. I&#39;d say the rest of the fleet is now in the stages of being called the &#39;stop gap&#39; till new generation replacements can be obtained.

The Mirage may be a old dog, but its a proven old dog. Some of the current airframes have been rebuilt & upgraded [glass cockpits] to give them plenty of life.

I don&#39;t know enough about the F-7&#39;s or A-5&#39;s to give a considered opinion.

Originally posted by Best of the Best@Oct 26 2005, 08:41 PM
But i wasnt talking about the F-16&#39;s what i actually was trying to say was that majority of PAF&#39;s fleet is based on old and obsolete air crafts such as F-7p,Miarges and A-5&#39;s which need replacement ASAP and no dought F-16&#39;s would have turned out to be a excellent stop gap fighter....but this had to happen
:drunk:
[post=1358]Quoted post[/post]​
 
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Dear Asif,

What would you say in regards of Su-30MKI and F-16 Block 50s. Are they apple and oranges that are not suppose to be compared or they can be compared at certain extent.

And how would you rate Block 50 versus Mirage-K in terms of technology, and being able to afford 70 of them?

Originally posted by Asif Shamim@Oct 26 2005, 07:55 PM
Thanks for the welcome :w00t:

I wouldn&#39;t call the F-16 the &#39;stop gap&#39; fighter. Consider several European/NATO based sqn&#39;s regards this as there frontline evolution fighter. I&#39;d say the rest of the fleet is now in the stages of being called the &#39;stop gap&#39; till new generation replacements can be obtained.

The Mirage may be a old dog, but its a proven old dog. Some of the current airframes have been rebuilt & upgraded [glass cockpits] to give them plenty of life.

I don&#39;t know enough about the F-7&#39;s or A-5&#39;s to give a considered opinion.
[post=1359]Quoted post[/post]​
 
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Originally posted by Asif Shamim@Oct 27 2005, 02:25 AM
Thanks for the welcome :w00t:

I wouldn&#39;t call the F-16 the &#39;stop gap&#39; fighter. Consider several European/NATO based sqn&#39;s regards this as there frontline evolution fighter. I&#39;d say the rest of the fleet is now in the stages of being called the &#39;stop gap&#39; till new generation replacements can be obtained.

The Mirage may be a old dog, but its a proven old dog. Some of the current airframes have been rebuilt & upgraded [glass cockpits] to give them plenty of life.

I don&#39;t know enough about the F-7&#39;s or A-5&#39;s to give a considered opinion.
[post=1359]Quoted post[/post]​



Well in this time and age with so many high-tech jets out there i would consider F-16 a stop gap fighter which is waiting for replacement in major airforces around the world....
PAF&#39;s case is quite different the air force had planed to buy 110 F-16&#39;s but we got sanctioned back in the late 80&#39;s and early 90&#39;s and couldnt recieve the remaining jets it had ordered if every thing would have gone smooth we would have been talking replacing F-16&#39;s rather than buying em.......... :frusty: :ranting:
 
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Originally posted by Ahsan Farooqui@Oct 27 2005, 02:41 AM
Dear Asif,

What would you say in regards of Su-30MKI and F-16 Block 50s. Are they apple and oranges that are not suppose to be compared or they can be compared at certain extent.

And how would you rate Block 50 versus Mirage-K in terms of technology, and being able to afford 70 of them?
[post=1360]Quoted post[/post]​


Dear Ahsan although your question was ment for Asif but i would like to answer it F-16blk50 and SU-30mki should not be compared as both these aircarfts belong from a different class as you know F-16blk50 is a medium weight fighter in the class of
Mirages-2005 ,Gripen and mig-29. While the SU-30MKI is a heavy weight fighter in the class of F-15E so technically speaking both these fighter have different roles.
Yes these aircafts can be compared to some extent as in what abilities do they have i.e electronics , avionics ,ECM
,ECCM and weapons and thats that

Well for one of your questions the mirages M2K5&#39;s air to air performence is pretty much close to that of an F-16&#39;s to make it simple both these machines are quite compareable but what i believe is i would prefer F-16&#39;s over mirages as mirages are too expensive and do not provide anything special compared to F-16&#39;s.... :cheers:
 
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Ok I&#39;m interested to know what you&#39;d replace the F-16 with? You call it the stop gap. What is is favoured gap filler???

If anyone mentions the Rafale or Gripen then :bash: :swear:


Originally posted by Best of the Best@Oct 26 2005, 09:28 PM
Well in this time and age with so many high-tech jets out there i would consider F-16 a stop gap fighter which is waiting for replacement in major airforces around the world....
                                            PAF&#39;s case is quite different the air force had planed to buy 110 F-16&#39;s but we got sanctioned back in the late 80&#39;s and early 90&#39;s and couldnt recieve the remaining jets it had ordered if every thing would have gone smooth we would have been talking replacing F-16&#39;s rather than buying em.......... :frusty:  :ranting:
[post=1361]Quoted post[/post]​

I&#39;m not a big fan of doing comparisons. Who is better than who. The proof is in the pudding. If the jets in question came up in a face to face combat situation, you&#39;d get your answer. Remember the jet is only one part of the equation
 
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Originally posted by Asif Shamim@Oct 27 2005, 03:43 AM
Ok I&#39;m interested to know what you&#39;d replace the F-16 with? You call it the stop gap. What is is favoured gap filler???

If anyone mentions the Rafale or Gripen then  :bash:  :swear:
I&#39;m not a big fan of doing comparisons. Who is better than who. The proof is in the pudding. If the jets in question came up in a face to face combat situation, you&#39;d get your answer. Remember the jet is only one part of the equation
[post=1368]Quoted post[/post]​

well my friend Compared to the Typhoon, Rafale, F-35 JSF, F/A-22A, & even JAS-39C/D conceptually the F-16C/D Block 52 is fast becoming the last major evolution of fourth generation aircraft. Even now, the PAK-FA is to be up to the level (borrowing from Su-47 technologies) of those cited above but the fact remains, the new wave of state-of-the-art fighters means that the F-16C/D Block 52 is, by Western standards becoming obsolete. The gap between it & the F-35 JSF (it&#39;s intended replacement) is like comparing the Mirage 50 to the Mirage 2000. No matter how you improve the Mirage 50 you can never bring it to Mirage 2000 status no matter what. The F-16E/F Block 60 takes it much further, but is still a gross-over-stretch of fourth generation fighters. However, the F-16C/D Block 52 is being exported worldwide.


For Pakistan, there isn&#39;t a need to standardise on (say) Typhoons or Rafales. There is a need however, to acquire an advanced fighter that would amplify the rest of the fleet. The F-16C/D Block 52 just doesn&#39;t do that & it&#39;s too expensive anyway. At &#036;US50 million per unit (minus services, training & support) the type becomes too expensive for Pakistan but doesn&#39;t deliver the punch. :bash: :SNIPER:


if things would have been smooth between PAKISTAN and U.S the evolutionary replacement for the F-16 would have been the F-35........ :W00T:
 
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Dear Asif,

You have rightly said about F-16, but which Block i am not sure but i will assume Block 50 since Pakistan is acquring this Block. Sure F-16 is very evolved in different Blocks especially in Block 50, and you are sort of right about the "stop gap" situation, but i guess it is hard for all of most of us to believe that.

People often say that it is for "stop gap" but they are typically saying "stop gap" for front line fighter, maybe your misunderstanding this. Like Best said, we don&#39;t want Rafale/Typhoon/J-10 right now, and it is obviously impossible for us to acquire these fighters, well maybe J-10 but PAF wouldn&#39;t waste money on it since it is still in development despite of the fact that more than 50 have been produced secretly.

Now we need to clear this "stop gap" words, we shouldn&#39;t really call them that they are for "stop gap" only i am sure we will be using these aircrafts for a long time period, remember that we are still using F-16 Block 15 aircrafts that were acquired in Soviet-Afghan war period. So i think it should be clear for everybody that they are not for "stop gap", may be you guys have heard this term from a biased indian source.

Regards. :PakistanFlag:
Originally posted by Asif Shamim@Oct 26 2005, 09:13 PM
Ok I&#39;m interested to know what you&#39;d replace the F-16 with? You call it the stop gap. What is is favoured gap filler???

If anyone mentions the Rafale or Gripen then  :bash:  :swear:
I&#39;m not a big fan of doing comparisons. Who is better than who. The proof is in the pudding. If the jets in question came up in a face to face combat situation, you&#39;d get your answer. Remember the jet is only one part of the equation
[post=1368]Quoted post[/post]​
 
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