Pakistan regaining control of tribal areas.

[American Pakistani]

Pakistan 'regaining control' of tribal north

Army claims gains in operation to clear northwestern Kurram Agency from Taliban and secure main road.

Last Modified: 24 Jul 2011 14:09

Pakistani forces have increased their fire power in the country's northwestern tribal areas in efforts to regain control of the region.
The military says 11 fighters were killed in the operation to clear the area of Taliban members and secure the crucial road that connects the Kurram Agency to the rest of the country.

The road from Parachinar, the administrative capital of Kurram, has been closed off for almost three years due to sectarian violence and the increased presence of Taliban fighters.

Convoys have repeatedly been attacked and travellers have been taken hostage.

The local population in Parachinar has criticised the Pakistani army for not doing enough to ensure their safety.

As Al Jazeera's Kamal Hyder reports from Kurram Agency, the military is making progress in regaining control of the area.

 

[American Pakistani]

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[American Pakistani]

http://http://english.aljazeera.net/video/asia/2011/07/2011724132513454353.html

Courtesy: AlJazeera

 

[Leader]

honestly, it is like : Pakistan regaining control of roads...

 

[TaimiKhan]

honestly, it is like : Pakistan regaining control of roads...

Regaining control of roads meaning regaining control of surrounding areas for many kilometers as with surrounding areas cleared of militants, then will the roads be cleared. As you can not keep a watch on each patch of the road with security forces, but best option it is to clear the surrounding areas.

So, as roads are cleared up and control regained, subsequently the areas being controlled around them would be cleared to. This is the COIN strategy, happened in Swat, Mohmand, Bajaur and SWA also.

 

[Kazhugu]

regaining control is easy...but maintaining the regained control for time to come is the difficult task given the attrition based warfare the tribes conduct....unless pak enlists more people in the army it cannot maintain control of the tribal areas or it has to alter its india-centric policy......where most of teh corps,brigades are centred in the plains of punjab and second in the deserts of sind....

 

[Juice]

This is a great start. A state should have complete control of ALL its territory.

 

[TaimiKhan]

regaining control is easy...but maintaining the regained control for time to come is the difficult task given the attrition based warfare the tribes conduct....unless pak enlists more people in the army it cannot maintain control of the tribal areas or it has to alter its india-centric policy......where most of teh corps,brigades are centred in the plains of punjab and second in the deserts of sind....

See, this is what happens when people from across the border as well as from within say when they have no idea what they are talking about.

First of all, we are not fighting tribes as a whole, rather few men from each tribe, who have joined under the Taliban umbrella and not under the their tribe's umbrella. The local tribes have been terrorized by these Taliban into submission and the tribes themselves welcome military action against them and once army moves into such places, these tribes then start helping the govt in their fight.

And now as for the India centric comment, before commenting on our ORBAT, have you seen the Indian ORBAT ?? Their composition and their closeness to the border with Pakistan. Their strategy and war doctrine ?? Do so, may be you get the thing that Pakistan is right in being India centric. How many out of the 4,000+ Indian tanks stationed across another of India's neighbor ?? And the RAPID formations and the strike corps of IA stationed more on which border other then Indo-Pak one ??

And by the way, PA is now very well trained in COIN operations and is not now just India centric, it has a well trained COIN force at its disposal, tactics evolved and made more perfect as time passes, but we do lack some resources in the shape of aerial assets, night fighting capability, force multipliers etc etc, which as time passes would be inducted, but they need money and we are short on that.

And we have more soldiers in the tribal area compared to what NATO/US has in whole of Afghanistan.

Had NATO/US been effective in Afghanistan and had a better watch on the border, things may have been different, but these militants have sanctuaries on both sides of the border.

 

[Kazhugu]

See, this is what happens when people from across the border as well as from within say when they have no idea what they are talking about.

First of all, we are not fighting tribes as a whole, rather few men from each tribe, who have joined under the Taliban umbrella and not under the their tribe's umbrella. The local tribes have been terrorized by these Taliban into submission and the tribes themselves welcome military action against them and once army moves into such places, these tribes then start helping the govt in their fight.

And now as for the India centric comment, before commenting on our ORBAT, have you seen the Indian ORBAT ?? Their composition and their closeness to the border with Pakistan. Their strategy and war doctrine ?? Do so, may be you get the thing that Pakistan is right in being India centric. How many out of the 4,000+ Indian tanks stationed across another of India's neighbor ?? And the RAPID formations and the strike corps of IA stationed more on which border other then Indo-Pak one ??

And by the way, PA is now very well trained in COIN operations and is not now just India centric, it has a well trained COIN force at its disposal, tactics evolved and made more perfect as time passes, but we do lack some resources in the shape of aerial assets, night fighting capability, force multipliers etc etc, which as time passes would be inducted, but they need money and we are short on that.

And we have more soldiers in the tribal area compared to what NATO/US has in whole of Afghanistan.

Had NATO/US been effective in Afghanistan and had a better watch on the border, things may have been different, but these militants have sanctuaries on both sides of the border.

so are you saying pakistan can maintain the troop presence in the frontier and keep the same strength as before in the indian border wiothout enlisting additional men ?

im just asking out of curiosity that since previously there were only minimum troops that were stationed in the frontier.. the XI corps in peshawar.... how can pak maintain the increases troop presence without drawing brigades from the corps in indian border or raising new divisions....

i will not go into the indian troop presence because that was not my intention in the first place........i just reiterated what your coas kayani said on record about pak army being india-centric.....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

so are you saying pakistan can maintain the troop presence in the frontier and keep the same strength as before in the indian border wiothout enlisting additional men ?

You didn't understand his point, since that is not what he said. Pakistan is rotating troops in and out of FATA (not sure if the reserves are being used to nullify some of the pressure from a personnel POV), and in addition, the FC and other local paramilitaries and tribal militias are being used as support elements in the initial operations, with the roles reversing and the PA acting as the 'support element' once the operations shift into 'reconstruction' mode.

The addition of 'force multipliers' with time will also ease the burden on the PA/FC etc.

If there is a need for more 'boots on the ground', then it should be addressed through an expansion of the FC and/or other local paramilitaries, and not the military. Internal security is not the job of the military - the military can assist through training programs and offering its COIN training centers and expertise for the local paramilitaries and police, but in the long term it is more important to raise forces (and improve their capacity) on the civilian side.

i just reiterated what your coas kayani said on record about pak army being india-centric.....

And the COAS is absolutely correct, and the PA's policy completely justified.

 

[Kazhugu]

You didn't understand his point, since that is not what he said. Pakistan is rotating troops in and out of FATA (not sure if the reserves are being used to nullify some of the pressure from a personnel POV), and in addition, the FC and other local paramilitaries and tribal militias are being used as support elements in the initial operations, with the roles reversing and the PA acting as the 'support element' once the operations shift into 'reconstruction' mode.

The addition of 'force multipliers' with time will also ease the burden on the PA/FC etc.

If there is a need for more 'boots on the ground', then it should be addressed through an expansion of the FC and/or other local paramilitaries, and not the military. Internal security is not the job of the military - the military can assist through training programs and offering its COIN training centers and expertise for the local paramilitaries and police,


i did not ask about the troop deployment for operations which i very well know are being sourced from the india front.....and which will be back to their peacetime positions (india border) once the operations are over.....


but in the long term it is more important to raise forces (and improve their capacity) on the civilian side.

this is my question...what about the long term when the operations are all over? doesn't it become necessary for the PA to raise more brigades/divisions or even one extra corps itself to maintain their hold over the frontier ?

And the COAS is absolutely correct, and the PA's policy completely justified.

maybe....but my post is not to debate that......

 

[truth is here]

just wondering why this Pak-Afghan region was the most safest border and region known to mankind before 9/11

maybe its was musharfy the dictator's war for dollars and a safe future in exile that he made american suspected enemies our sworn enemies resulting in the bloodshed in our country.
No doubt a brand new dollar bill has its own wonders and its does makes a dictator who has all the state machinery at his dispence reach a utopian state of mind

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

but in the long term it is more important to raise forces (and improve their capacity) on the civilian side.

this is my question...what about the long term when the operations are all over? doesn't it become necessary for the PA to raise more brigades/divisions or even one extra corps itself to maintain their hold over the frontier ?

The PA has made clear that the long term 'holding' operations need to be addressed through civilian forces and institutions, not the PA. The PA is willing to assist in the capacity building of security forces on the civilian side, and 'plug the gaps' as long as is necessary.

As of right now, no one on the Military or Civilian (government) has argued differently. It is a different issue whether or not the GoP and the relevant civilian institutions are acting as they should to prepare for 'long term holding and reconstruction' phases.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

just wondering why this Pak-Afghan region was the most safest border and region known to mankind before 9/11

That is nonsense - it was far from 'the safest border and region'. There was gun-running, smuggling, drugs, kidnapping and various other criminal activity all over the place.

The same criminal activity is now being used to support the TTP and other extremist/insurgent entities.

 

[truth is here]

That is nonsense - it was far from 'the safest border and region'. There was gun-running, smuggling, drugs, kidnapping and various other criminal activity all over the place.

The same criminal activity is now being used to support the TTP and other extremist/insurgent entities.

sir jee there hell lot of a difference between gun-running, smuggling, drugs, kidnapping and allowing drone attacks killing Pakistanis maliks and innocent women and children..

..even if one innocent child is killed that means entire humanity is dead....before 9/11 there wasnt a single suicide bombing in Pakistan...and comparing suicide bombing on a daily basis with petty smuggler activity cant be justiified....its actually the musharfies who have brain washed our people...just cause they are addicted to the smell of green dollar bill they will do anything and try to justify aggression of america with lame argments....

i agree criminal elements did joined in to create unrest in our country but it wasnt there before 9/11 ...these petty criminal were indulged in smuggling of televisions and radios but as Ben Gurion's army came to afghanistan these people joined in....but sir the bottom line it was musharfy the dictator who brought dick cheney's army to this regions and since musharfy was a dictator he wanted a safe exit in the end so he bargained a safe life full of mujra,tabla and wine in europe and in return for an ample life time supply of green dollar notes and blood fellow country men he allowed american to setup kill teams in Pakistan collaborating with burger chamchas and secular fanatics

musharfy sold an airbase to america now sir you can differ with me but if you ask from your heart will even the most roguest state sell its airbase to a foreign country?cAN you buy land in dubai,build and airbase on it and then sell it to iran?
our leader are do number....they are not even authentic in pulling off do numbri.....when drones attack you say we havent allowed them...then sir why dont you bring them down when the nature and oath of your job requires you to do so....then news comes drones fly from shamsi and we say shamsi is not under our control....it is being operated by UAE AND they lended it to USA

i will tell you why are leaders are not even authentic do numbers....its the wonder of brand new green dollar bill fresh from the printing press....and as i said earlier a person who has entire state machinery at his dispense and blood of fellow country men and muslims coming from his cloths and finger nails and when his pockets get filled with american dollar ....he becomes and feels like an invincible....that what he believes but what follows is curse of God on his face...just like musharfy he starts to produce female harmones and lanat and phitkar can been seen on his face from miles and if u compare his face with even non muslims he looks stale with blackened eye sockits...reason cause even non muslims such indians dont kill their people for money and rent their airbases to foreign countries...
indians do kill there people but they dont do it for dollars...they do it for their own agends but here musharfy brought someone else war to our country and result is 90 billion dollar worth of loss to economy....40 thousand innocent \women children and soldiers dead...and no end to the bloodshed and gore in sight and musharfies wanting the hag back to create more havoc in the country

lets all patroit Pakistanis get together pray that the next Army Chief takes personal interest in having musharfy arrestedd just like general pinoche and our wounds will only heal once the made in new delhi man who broke the oath of office for green dollar bills and brought hell to his country is brought before justice