Pakistan Navy's FAC-4, a First Indigenously produced warship, launched at Karachi Shipyard

[Ultima Thule]

The 4 retired Destroyers are
Type 051 destroyer

• Kaifeng (Hull 109), 132 meters
• Dalian (Hull 110), 132 meters
• Zunyi (Hull 134), 132 meters
• Guilin (Hull 164), 132 meters

Type 051DT
Kaifeng (109) with "X" turret replaced by HQ-7 launcher
The Type 051DT was a modernized Type 051D. Kaifeng and Dalian were modernized to somewhat different designs.

Kaifeng initially received the Thomson-CSF Tavitac combat data system, the Type 393 surface search radar, and HQ-7 (Crotale derivative) surface-to-air missiles (SAM); the missiles replaced "X" turret. In 1999, YJ-8 missiles replaced the HY-series, and electronic warfare systems were upgraded.

Dalian received a similar modernization as Kaifeng. A notable difference was Dalian used the ZKJ-1 combat data system, which was also used on the Type 051Z.

They were later equipped with YJ-83 anti-ship missiles.

The Type 051DT was part of the Luda III class, and later the Luda IV class



The ships can be great addition to F22P fleet

Useless for modern standards

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Then OHP is also useless and same goes with F22P as these ships also have same era tech
The chronic shortage of war ships Pakistan has can only be met with urgent purchase of ships such as Chinese retired ships

These can be upgraded in Pakistan with local effort

• Sea surfae to Sea surface missile
• Sea to Land Missile
• Torpedoes
• Radars from Turkey or Italy or third party or even from China

If we make 1 FAC in 3 years , we can never beef up the navy to protect our interest at sea

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Useless for modern standards

How so? Care to enlighten us with your deep knowledge in naval warfare?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If we make 1 FAC per 3 years just to make 4 ships will take 12-14 years !!!
While purchasing the retired Chinese Destroyers will be in service in mere 2-3 month of refurbishment

The FAC program is important and valuable but we need to take the opportunity to beef up NAVY

Pakistan faces a chronic shortage of Sea assets

Its is clear if we add these ships these would supplement the OHP
The size of the ship and capabilities are approximately equal to F22P or OHP or better

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If as make 1 FAC per 3 years just to make 4 ships will take 12-14 years !!!
While purchasing the retired Chinese Destroyers will be in service in mere 2-3 month of refurbishment

The FAC program is important and valuable but we need to take the opportunity to beef up NAVY

Pakistan faces a chronic shortage of Sea assets

Its is clear if we add these ships these would supplement the OHP
The size of the ship and capabilities are approximately equal to F22P or OHP or better

View attachment 592798

The PLAN 051s will be bad news maintenance/use wise. If you want to fast-build a fleet, then pay Damen to roll out 4 more 2,500-ton corvettes and load them with Harbah ASCM and, when available, the supersonic ASCM.

 

[Ultima Thule]

How so? Care to enlighten us with your deep knowledge in naval warfare?

Short answer for your question 70s tech

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well when Pakistan is offered OHP , we are up and arms to get a ship which was unarmed with no weapons
But when China has the same ship but upgraded in 1999 their is a reluctance it makes no sense

We can upgrade the weapons on board with Pakistani Technology (Missiles , Sonar , Torpedoes)

For radar we could collaborate with Chinese / Turkish Navy for upgrade in senors

The F22P Pakistan currently has are at a similar level as the 4 Chinese Destroyers but the Chinese destroyers have more firepower

• OHP ~ program is from 70's , we got these in 2004 approx unarmed went thru upgrading
• Pakistan's F22P ships came to Pakistan between 2006-2009
• Chinese O51 Destroyer program is from 80's and the ships in question were upgraded in 1999

The 4 ships would be available at the ideal price, for a NAVY like Pakistan facing chronic shortage it is best to boost our sea capabilities in a short time

 

[Ultima Thule]

Well when Pakistan is offered OHP , we are up and arms to get a ship which was unarmed with no weapons
But when China has the same ship but upgraded in 1999 their is a reluctance it makes no sense

We can upgrade the weapons on board with Pakistani Technology (Missiles , Sonar , Torpedoes)

For radar we could collaborate with Chinese / Turkish Navy for upgrade in senors

The F22P pakistan currently has are at similar level as the 4 Chinese Destroyers but the Chinese destroyers have more fire power

• OHP ~ program is from 70's , we got these in 2004 approx unarmed went thru upgrading
• O51 Destroyer program is from 80's and the ships in question were upgraded in 1999
• Pakistan's F22P ships came to Pakistan between 2006-2009

this upgrades will be more expensive then new destroyers, in these amount we will get more advance more balance Type-52D

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The main argument is "time", having an asset in hand is better than a planned asset 10 years from now

Chinese destroyer ships could be protecting Pakistan' Sea in 3 month to 6 months time after a freshening up project. These won't come to Pakistan stripped down or dearmed

New Ships will take good 8-10 years

Pakistan's policy with F16 is we buy when available even from Jordan, because we want to maintain a balance in region even when F16 are 70's designed fighter jet. The jets continue to offer balance in region.

And same argument can be made about the Chinese destroyer ships now available in market which will offer a similar protection at sea for Pakistan's National Interest

• Gas/ Oil reserves
• Merchant ship protection
• Trade protection
• Assistance to Pakistani Ships at sea

Immediate Now : 3 Months from Today on ward for 10 years
Future Strategy : Arrive 5-7 years from now for 20 years

 

[Ultima Thule]

The main argument is "time", having an asset in hand is better than a planned asset 10 years from now

Chinese destroyer ships could be protecting Pakistan' Sea in 3 month to 6 months time after a freshening up project

New Ships will take good 8-10 years

how can we upgrades Type 51 with AESA and their HULLs is near the end of its life, We can leased some Chinese Type 52D and pays when our economy will Improve, stupid Idea of your that we could buy Type-51 and upgrade it

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Short Term: 3 Months to 7-year time frame

We have Shipyard
We have an engineering force
We have cooperation with China, Turkey and other nations for fixing ships
So buying Type 051, Destroyers and maintaining them is not an issue specially since most of the time these ships will stay close to Pakistan's sea areas
We make our own Navy Missiles now, and electronics parts
These ships (Chinese retired ships) would be cost-effective fix to our immediate short term needs giving time for arrival of newer ships in 7-10 years

Long Term: 7 Years from Now
Yes we will get new ships inducted this has been a welcomed move by Navy and as a Pakistani I applaud the decision-makers

• Milgram Program Ships
• Newer Chinese VLS enabled Frigates
• Submarines

The argument for Chinese O51 Destroyers is for our short term needs at marginal cost as these are retired ships from China , China has retired them because they are making Top of the line ships now but for Pakistan these ships are still able to serve our National Interest as a deterrent force


China is Top 5 Navy in the world today, Pakistan Navy is maybe Ranked 30th-40th in world. What is surplus to China is still welcomed in Pakistan Navy as we have shortages in Ship quantity. The ranking I suggested is due to holding "assets" not officer training


We need to get ships when we can such as Chinese retired destroyers to close the Gap in shortages

• 1 Fast attack boat per 3 years is am afraid, not an ideal circumstance for Pakistan Navy's larger long term interest the arrival of ship is welcomed but we should be manufacturing 4-5 fast attack boats per 3 years

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Short answer for your question 70s tech

@Quwa

 

[S.Y.A]

Well when Pakistan is offered OHP , we are up and arms to get a ship which was unarmed with no weapons
But when China has the same ship but upgraded in 1999 their is a reluctance it makes no sense

We can upgrade the weapons on board with Pakistani Technology (Missiles , Sonar , Torpedoes)

For radar we could collaborate with Chinese / Turkish Navy for upgrade in senors

The F22P Pakistan currently has are at a similar level as the 4 Chinese Destroyers but the Chinese destroyers have more firepower

• OHP ~ program is from 70's , we got these in 2004 approx unarmed went thru upgrading
• Pakistan's F22P ships came to Pakistan between 2006-2009
• Chinese O51 Destroyer program is from 80's and the ships in question were upgraded in 1999

The 4 ships would be available at the ideal price, for a NAVY like Pakistan facing chronic shortage it is best to boost our sea capabilities in a short time

back then the chinese tech isnt what it is right now. it will cost a lot to maintain them. US ships are more durable, and hence lesser(comparatively) expenditure on maintenance. Lay to len gay, palain gay kaisay?

1 Fast attack boat per 3 years is am afraid, not an ideal circumstance for Pakistan Navy's larger long term interest the arrival of ship is welcomed but we should be manufacturing 4-5 fast attack boats per 3 years

shipyard space is limited. availability of funds is an issue. the pace will pick up gradually.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

back then the chinese tech isnt what it is right now. it will cost a lot to maintain them. US ships are more durable, and hence lesser(comparatively) expenditure on maintenance. Lay to len gay, palain gay kaisay?


shipyard space is limited. availability of funds is an issue. the pace will pick up gradually.

Arent they making a shipyard in gawadar. I thought the construction on that started last year. @ghazi52 do u know if it's being constructed?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There is 0% harm in acquiring 4 Chinese destroyer ships, these ships don't impact any Indigenous programs that are in place in Pakistan

a) Azmat Class/FAC project can continue as is
b) F22P-Plus program can continue at its current pace
c) The Milgem Program with 2025 target is ok to continue at its natural pace
d) The Submarine programs can mature at natural pace till 2025-2030

The acquisition of the Chinese 4 destroyer ships actually takes the pressure of Engineering departments of Pakistani Navy, that they can focus on quality development and Navy can do its business on the Chinese Destroyers for 4-7 years



All these additional ships offer is 'Additional' security at ports and an insurance policy
These ships have all weapons installed, ready to go