What's new

Pakistan might consider the Klimov RD-33MK for JF-17

Xerxes1

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
53
Reaction score
0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
PAKISTAN MIGHT CONSIDER THE KLIMOV RD-33MK FOR JF-17



The Pakistan Air Force is considering the idea of changing the JF-17's engine from the RD-93 to the newer RD-33MK or WS-13.

By Bilal Khan

Pakistani officials attending this year’s Defence Services Asia (DSA) exhibition told ihs janes that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is actively considering the idea of swapping out the JF-17’s existing turbofan (i.e. RD-93) with either the Klimov RD-33MK or Guizhou WS-13.

In November 2015, the PAF told that it was committed to sticking with the RD-93. In fact, representatives from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) even mentioned that talks were underway to bring a maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility for the RD-93 to Kamra, hence signaling the PAF’s commitment to working with Klimov (we discussed this in greater detail in an earler artical).

That said, the selection of a lighter and more powerful engine to replace the current RD-93 is a natural step forward, especially for the JF-17. The rRD 33 MK is the latest iteration of the RD-33 turbofan, but with a higher thrust output, full authority digital engine control (FADEC), and a lifespan of 4000 hours. The RD-33MK is currently used by the MiG-29M/M2 and MiG-35.

Last year, we had speculated that JF17 BLOCK3 could potentially be equipped with a higher thrust turbofan, thus enabling the fighter to boast a higher thrust-to-weight ratio (TWR), especially if a higher proportion of composite materials are incorporated into the airframe. Besides improving the JF-17’s basic performance benchmarks (e.g. speed), an uprated engine could offer the PAF greater flexibility in arming the JF-17 for payload intensive roles, such as air-to-ground and sea missions.

Of the options available, the RD-33MK would seem to be the most seamless, especially considering that it is an evolution of the RD-93, which is a modified RD-33. The evolution in this case could be analogous to the JAS-39 Gripen’s transition from the GE404 to the GE414 (via the Gripen NG). In fact, improvement in thrust is only one benefit. The RD-33MK’s use of FADEC enables for more efficient engine usage, thereby extending time between overhaul (TBO). It is also smokeless.

Some may be familiar with the so-called RD-93MA, which is said to be an upgraded RD-93 in development for the JF-17. It was reported that the RD-93MA’s thrust output would be in the area of 91kN, that is not too far off from the RD-33MK’s 89kN. It is worth noting that the recent Jane’s article lists the RD-33MK’s thrust output at 9.4 tons, which essentially means 92kN. In any case, it is possible that the RD-93MA emerges as a modified RD-33MK.

Some might be wondering about the possibility of adding a thrust-vectoring nozzle (TVN) through the RD-33MK. This is not an aspect the PAF has seriously considered. We can only speculate as to why, but the added costs associated with a TVC-equipped JF-17 (from acquisition to potentially maintenance) are probably not worth the gains, which may not even be enough to offset the challenges of increasingly accurate (as well fast and maneuverable) air-to-air missiles.

The Guizhou WS-13 is noted as an alternative. Specific details about this engine are not easy to come by, at least in English. Fortunately, Georg Mader from Defence Industry Bulletin was able to offer some insight into the WS-13 and its development via a source at the Guizhou Aviation Industry Corporation (GAIC). Like the RD-33MK, the WS-13 has a higher thrust rating compared to the RD-93, it also uses FADEC. Moreover, a Chinese official told IHS janes that the WS-13 was already being test flown on the JF-17.

In the end, the PAF may prefer sticking to Klimov. It is already accustomed to the RD-93, and despite some issues in terms of fuel consumption and TBO, the PAF has praised its durability and reliability. One would expect that the RD-33MK (or RD-93MA) would draw a lot in terms of commonality from the RD-93, and rectify some of its concerns with the RD-93. But although Russia and Pakistan have made some headway in improving their defence ties, China will remain anchored as a time-tested partner, especially given its own strategic concerns in regards to the pressure it is feeling in Pacific Asia. If the WS-13 emerges as a capable solution, the PAF could consider it. In fact, the FC-31 is likely slotted to use the WS-13, which is an important point considering the PAF may use the FC-31 as the basis for its next generation fighter.

PAF/PAC officials also told IHS Jane’s that the twin-seat JF-17 will likely begin its flight tests in late 2016 and early 2017. Furthermore, the refuelling probe configuration shown in China is the configuration the PAF will be using for its own aircraft.

- See more at: http://quwa.org/2016/04/22/pakis
 
.
PAKISTAN MIGHT CONSIDER THE KLIMOV RD-33MK FOR JF-17



The Pakistan Air Force is considering the idea of changing the JF-17's engine from the RD-93 to the newer RD-33MK or WS-13.

By Bilal Khan

Pakistani officials attending this year’s Defence Services Asia (DSA) exhibition told ihs janes that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is actively considering the idea of swapping out the JF-17’s existing turbofan (i.e. RD-93) with either the Klimov RD-33MK or Guizhou WS-13.

In November 2015, the PAF told that it was committed to sticking with the RD-93. In fact, representatives from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) even mentioned that talks were underway to bring a maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility for the RD-93 to Kamra, hence signaling the PAF’s commitment to working with Klimov (we discussed this in greater detail in an earler artical).

That said, the selection of a lighter and more powerful engine to replace the current RD-93 is a natural step forward, especially for the JF-17. The rRD 33 MK is the latest iteration of the RD-33 turbofan, but with a higher thrust output, full authority digital engine control (FADEC), and a lifespan of 4000 hours. The RD-33MK is currently used by the MiG-29M/M2 and MiG-35.

Last year, we had speculated that JF17 BLOCK3 could potentially be equipped with a higher thrust turbofan, thus enabling the fighter to boast a higher thrust-to-weight ratio (TWR), especially if a higher proportion of composite materials are incorporated into the airframe. Besides improving the JF-17’s basic performance benchmarks (e.g. speed), an uprated engine could offer the PAF greater flexibility in arming the JF-17 for payload intensive roles, such as air-to-ground and sea missions.

Of the options available, the RD-33MK would seem to be the most seamless, especially considering that it is an evolution of the RD-93, which is a modified RD-33. The evolution in this case could be analogous to the JAS-39 Gripen’s transition from the GE404 to the GE414 (via the Gripen NG). In fact, improvement in thrust is only one benefit. The RD-33MK’s use of FADEC enables for more efficient engine usage, thereby extending time between overhaul (TBO). It is also smokeless.

Some may be familiar with the so-called RD-93MA, which is said to be an upgraded RD-93 in development for the JF-17. It was reported that the RD-93MA’s thrust output would be in the area of 91kN, that is not too far off from the RD-33MK’s 89kN. It is worth noting that the recent Jane’s article lists the RD-33MK’s thrust output at 9.4 tons, which essentially means 92kN. In any case, it is possible that the RD-93MA emerges as a modified RD-33MK.

Some might be wondering about the possibility of adding a thrust-vectoring nozzle (TVN) through the RD-33MK. This is not an aspect the PAF has seriously considered. We can only speculate as to why, but the added costs associated with a TVC-equipped JF-17 (from acquisition to potentially maintenance) are probably not worth the gains, which may not even be enough to offset the challenges of increasingly accurate (as well fast and maneuverable) air-to-air missiles.

The Guizhou WS-13 is noted as an alternative. Specific details about this engine are not easy to come by, at least in English. Fortunately, Georg Mader from Defence Industry Bulletin was able to offer some insight into the WS-13 and its development via a source at the Guizhou Aviation Industry Corporation (GAIC). Like the RD-33MK, the WS-13 has a higher thrust rating compared to the RD-93, it also uses FADEC. Moreover, a Chinese official told IHS janes that the WS-13 was already being test flown on the JF-17.

In the end, the PAF may prefer sticking to Klimov. It is already accustomed to the RD-93, and despite some issues in terms of fuel consumption and TBO, the PAF has praised its durability and reliability. One would expect that the RD-33MK (or RD-93MA) would draw a lot in terms of commonality from the RD-93, and rectify some of its concerns with the RD-93. But although Russia and Pakistan have made some headway in improving their defence ties, China will remain anchored as a time-tested partner, especially given its own strategic concerns in regards to the pressure it is feeling in Pacific Asia. If the WS-13 emerges as a capable solution, the PAF could consider it. In fact, the FC-31 is likely slotted to use the WS-13, which is an important point considering the PAF may use the FC-31 as the basis for its next generation fighter.

PAF/PAC officials also told IHS Jane’s that the twin-seat JF-17 will likely begin its flight tests in late 2016 and early 2017. Furthermore, the refuelling probe configuration shown in China is the configuration the PAF will be using for its own aircraft.

You should post link.
 
. .
Pakistani officials attending this year’s Defence Services Asia (DSA) exhibition told ihs janes that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is actively considering the idea of swapping out the JF-17’s existing turbofan (i.e. RD-93) with either the Klimov RD-33MK or Guizhou WS-

RD93 is RD33 with relocated gear box to fit into slim fuselage of JF17
 
. .
The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) has no plans to replace the JF-17 fighter's Klimov/Sarkisov RD-93 powerplant despite Chinese suggestions otherwise, according to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) officials.

While several, non-specific statements have been made by representatives from Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) during the past few months, a PAC senior representative recently told IHS Jane's , "We are completely satisfied with this Russian-made engine.

"When we designed the JF-17 we evaluated a number of design alternatives and we determined that the RD-93 in this single-engine installation is absolutely right for this application," he said. "We worked extensively with the people from Klimov bureau in St Petersburg [Russia] and this engine turned out to be an ideal solution."

PAC representatives added that the next step is to establish a full-scale servicing and overhaul facility for the RD-93 at their plant in Kamra.

"What does this tell you?" asked one programme officer rhetorically. "If the situation was as it has been portrayed at times - that we are just utilising the RD-93 as a temporary solution until the Chinese can 'save' us with their own new engine - then we would not be expending the resources to set up this overhaul base. For us, changing to another engine would not make any sense and would be disruptive and cause a huge expense for the JF-17 programme."

PAF officials told IHS Jane's at the 2015 Dubai Air Show that improvements to the JF-17's design and the reliability of the RD-93 have attracted a number of interested parties.

"The experience at [the Paris Airshow in] Le Bourget brought about 11-12 countries that approached us with some interest in a JF-17 acquisition," said one of the officials. "Out of all of those there are today some four or five customers that we regard as being serious prospects in the near term." PAC representatives declined to name any of those countries, however.

Source http://www.janes.com/article/56105/pakistan-to-stick-with-rd-93-engine-for-jf-17-say-paf-officials
 
. . .
isn't the RD-33K a lot weaker than the RD-93 o_O
 
. . .
Life cycle of this source

PDF someone posted the article - QUWA posted it by taking it from PDF - Now the article is being referenced from PDF again as a real source

The source is not strong in this case

If QUWA's post on their site references pdf as key source , perhaps we would not be discussing this as we would know there was no powerful source behind the speculation
 
.
RD93 is RD33 with relocated gear box to fit into slim fuselage of JF17

This relocation was first done for Mirage/Cheetah in South Africa to suite the ATAR9C replacement. However, it never found any business there.

Pakistan should consider EJ-200.
@Quwa @The Eagle @Horus @Oscar

EJ200 is not cleared for export for Pakistan.

This type of information is only available to you..

A lot of Pakistani procurement programs are funded through Sovereign guarantees and seller's credit. I don't see why this is a notable mention.
 
.
RD 93 is the variant of RD 33mk which is use by jf 17...both are same just relocation of gearbox
 
.
Life cycle of this source

PDF someone posted the article - QUWA posted it by taking it from PDF - Now the article is being referenced from PDF again as a real source

The source is not strong in this case

If QUWA's post on their site references pdf as key source , perhaps we would not be discussing this as we would know there was no powerful source behind the speculation
The original source is IHS Jane's, who spoke to Pakistani officials. In fact, whether we choose to believe in PAF sticking with RD-93 (December 2015) or changing RD-93 (April 2016), the source either way is Jane's.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom