Pakistan might consider the Klimov RD-33MK for JF-17

[leftfordead]

Except off course in this cases like these
28 Oct 1991 [w/o] 85725 81-0923

PAF 14 sqn F-16A Block 15U
Crashed in Attock, Pakistan after it suffered an engine failure during a dogfight training mission with the pilot, Squadron Leader Nadeem Anjum, ejected safely. The engine failure was caused by installing not an original part in the engine during routine maintenance.

Considering that the only "on the dot" procedure that was not followed was a technician putting a ATAR part on the F-100.

There plenty of other cases where rules were not followed.

So technically a Single screw can screw the Entire plane ..
Do we make some part of Planes that exist in our inventory like F-16's ( more specifically ) or we just import them from US ?

On topic , why not if the Engine can give some extra to existing RD-93 ..

 

[SQ8]

So technically a Single screw can screw the Entire plane ..
Do we make some part of Planes that exist in our inventory like F-16's ( more specifically ) or we just import them from US ?

Yes. Think of it in terms of tolerances. Each part is built to a certain tolerance. When you put them in extreme performance areas like Jet engines where the blades are spinning at hundreds of RPMs and the engine core is above 1000C.. then you need exacting figures and not the desi jugarr.

We make a lot of parts for the JF-17, F-7, C-130 and T-37. But a lot has to be imported as well.

 

[leftfordead]

Yes. Think of it in terms of tolerances. Each part is built to a certain tolerance. When you put them in extreme performance areas like Jet engines where the blades are spinning at hundreds of RPMs and the engine core is above 1000C.. then you need exacting figures and not the desi jugarr.

We make a lot of parts for the JF-17, F-7, C-130 and T-37. But a lot has to be imported as well.

yeah that make sense , no wonder only few nations are capable of making Fully indigenous fighter planes , and its complex stuff like Engines .. even a Country like China is taking hard time .

Ok so this question might sound stupid, can any engine be fit into any plane ? or there is a different way to categorize it ? like we can fit EFT engine into JF right ? or we have to change or modify the basic airframe ? hope you understand the question ..

 

[HAIDER]

RD 33 is much better power plant then 93

 

[Imtiaz_Sarwar]

I look forward to the day when the engine for JF-17 will be completely made in Pakistan. There are plenty of Aeronautical engineers and Metallurgical engineers in Pakistan. If we start the work we will get somewhere in the end.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

RD 33 is much better power plant then 93

There is no difference in RD33 and RD93 at its core. RD93 is a RD33 with gear box position changed, slight change in compressor blade tech and new DEEC.

I look forward to the day when the engine for JF-17 will be completely made in Pakistan. There are plenty of Aeronautical engineers and Metallurgical engineers in Pakistan. If we start the work we will get somewhere in the end.

That day is neither on the plans, neither needed. There is no point on making complete engine, unless you are making 1000 or 2000 aircraft.

yeah that make sense , no wonder only few nations are capable of making Fully indigenous fighter planes , and its complex stuff like Engines .. even a Country like China is taking hard time .

Ok so this question might sound stupid, can any engine be fit into any plane ? or there is a different way to categorize it ? like we can fit EFT engine into JF right ? or we have to change or modify the basic airframe ? hope you understand the question ..

Not a stupid question. Engines follow certain schemes. EJ200 can fit in JFT but it will require structural and other aircraft modification. This can only be undertaken in Chengdu. EJ200 cannot be exported to China, hence it is not cleared for export for JF17.

 

[Quwa]

There is no difference in RD33 and RD93 at its core. RD93 is a RD33 with gear box position changed, slight change in compressor blade tech and new DEEC.



That day is neither on the plans, neither needed. There is no point on making complete engine, unless you are making 1000 or 2000 aircraft.

Could specific parts manufacturing be on the cards? Do specific engine parts have a higher susceptibility to failure than others? Could PAC produce parts of the RD-93 that ensure that PAF can fly the engines to end of life with as little support from Klimov as possible?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Could specific parts manufacturing be on the cards? Do specific engine parts have a higher susceptibility to failure than others? Could PAC produce parts of the RD-93 that ensure that PAF can fly the engines to end of life with as little support from Klimov as possible?

When Russian engine repair plants are setup, certain technologies are transferred. Consumables, small mandatory change items, rubberised parts are manufactured at the repair plant. This is in place at all RD-33 repair plants around the world. Rest same process is followed. Engines are opened up and every thing is inspected. Mandatory changed items are changed. Life limited parts are tracked individually by serial number, and changed where required. What is damaged or out of tolerance is repaired, tested on component testers and re-installed. Items such as turbine blades etc, unless cracked or damaged, are plasma coated, etc and reinstalled. Then reassembled engine is put on test bench and performance tested. If passes, goes back on aircraft till next inspection cycle.

No parts are manufactured without the license of the OEM, and their certification. Engines is a delicate business, and only official process is accepted. PAF does not cut corners here, and follows a very strict quality procedure. There is a reason why the air worthiness of PAF is so high, when compared to the region.

 

[HAIDER]

There is no difference in RD33 and RD93 at its core. RD93 is a RD33 with gear box position changed, slight change in compressor blade tech and new DEEC.



That day is neither on the plans, neither needed. There is no point on making complete engine, unless you are making 1000 or 2000 aircraft.



Not a stupid question. Engines follow certain schemes. EJ200 can fit in JFT but it will require structural and other aircraft modification. This can only be undertaken in Chengdu. EJ200 cannot be exported to China, hence it is not cleared for export for JF17.

Its fuel efficient and no smoke, better thrust, lighter weight.

 

[Imtiaz_Sarwar]

That day is neither on the plans, neither needed. There is no point on making complete engine, unless you are making 1000 or 2000 aircraft.
.

Pakistan will certainly make than 1000 planes. maybe in your lifetime. Today Pakistan is an emerging power and we should plan as such. Britain has Rolls Royce which produces engines. One day in not so distant future we will also have something equivalent to Rolls Royce. If anybody thinks that after producing 250 JF-17 planes we would stop than he is not in touch with reality. Once we reach 250 planes we would be producing 4+ generation of fighter planes and also exporting plenty of them.

 

[leftfordead]

Not a stupid question. Engines follow certain schemes. EJ200 can fit in JFT but it will require structural and other aircraft modification. This can only be undertaken in Chengdu. EJ200 cannot be exported to China, hence it is not cleared for export for JF17.

Thank you bro..
I have read some members suggesting that we can consider EJ-200 or any other Engine options for future blocks but this question was bothering that we may need to do some modification in Air frame which mostly senior members says wont be happening anytime soon .. hope your post clear the minds of many ..
but what about RD-33 ? some say its just a modified version of RD-93 , so even if we have to switch will it include any changes ?
and recently Pakistan trying to setup a overhaul facility for its Russian Engine , do we have to upgrade that too ? in case we go for RD-33 or WS-13 from China ?

 

[volatile]

Engine manufacturing is quite a complex job .Pak as on today lacks following industrial base or know how for producing jet engines .

1.Metallurgy (Most important)
2.Polymer Ind
3.Precise Manufacturing
4.Resource man power (there are more than few people but outside Pakistan)

Until unless these bases are formed ,forget about Jet Engine assembly in Pakistan

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Its fuel efficient and no smoke, better thrust, lighter weight.

Pakistan will certainly make than 1000 planes. maybe in your lifetime. Today Pakistan is an emerging power and we should plan as such. Britain has Rolls Royce which produces engines. One day in not so distant future we will also have something equivalent to Rolls Royce. If anybody thinks that after producing 250 JF-17 planes we would stop than he is not in touch with reality. Once we reach 250 planes we would be producing 4+ generation of fighter planes and also exporting plenty of them.

You are a funny guy, but I respect your optimism and "jazba" Some of us who come from the other side are foolish pragmatist. Stay positive. Our future needs people like you.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Thank you bro..
I have read some members suggesting that we can consider EJ-200 or any other Engine options for future blocks but this question was bothering that we may need to do some modification in Air frame which mostly senior members says wont be happening anytime soon .. hope your post clear the minds of many ..
but what about RD-33 ? some say its just a modified version of RD-93 , so even if we have to switch will it include any changes ?
and recently Pakistan trying to setup a overhaul facility for its Russian Engine , do we have to upgrade that too ? in case we go for RD-33 or WS-13 from China ?

RD93 is a version of the RD-33 series engine, not the other way around. Pakistan is trying to setup the facilities, but they are yet to be established, however, it is expected that by 2017, this task is complete.

 

[Quwa]

RD93 is a version of the RD-33 series engine, not the other way around. Pakistan is trying to setup the facilities, but they are yet to be established, however, it is expected that by 2017, this task is complete.

What do you make of the officials who told Jane's that the PAF is considering the RD-33MK - i.e. an upgraded version of the RD-33 with better thrust, FADEC, 4000 service life, etc. If the engine is made available, is this something the PAF could feasibly integrate onto the JF-17?