Pakistan Mastery over Foreign Engines for Planes

[Materialistic]

Its the sustainable business model which is more crucial for engine manufacturing than Probably the science and tehnology bit. A business cannot solely rely on engine manufacturing when they are to sell only 10-12 engines for manufacturing of thunders a year. It is only possible when small to medium engines can be manufactured and sold to international plane manufactures of small scale to keep finances flowing and provided there is an initial investment to start. Too many ifs.

On the other hand, its not only the PAF where we are working with engines. Here is the history of BECO - a Lahore based diesel and aircraft engine manufacturing with international suppliers back in 1960s. A complete locally owned private business, later ruined by Nationalisation policy of Bhutto. If it wasn't for this Nationalisation policy we would have better industrial and business base today. And here goes another IF!

 

[Khanivore]

Its the sustainable business model which is more crucial for engine manufacturing than Probably the science and tehnology bit. A business cannot solely rely on engine manufacturing when they are to sell only 10-12 engines for manufacturing of thunders a year. It is only possible when small to medium engines can be manufactured and sold to international plane manufactures of small scale to keep finances flowing and provided there is an initial investment to start. Too many ifs.

On the other hand, its not only the PAF where we are working with engines. Here is the history of BECO - a Lahore based diesel and aircraft engine manufacturing with international suppliers back in 1960s. A complete locally owned private business, later ruined by Nationalisation policy of Bhutto. If it wasn't for this Nationalisation policy we would have better industrial and business base today. And here goes another IF!

Wow. I never knew Pakistan at one time produced engines. Thank you for posting this.

It's a tragic story considering Mr Latif did so much for his country. Very sad.

 

[Vortex]

Its the sustainable business model which is more crucial for engine manufacturing than Probably the science and tehnology bit. A business cannot solely rely on engine manufacturing when they are to sell only 10-12 engines for manufacturing of thunders a year. It is only possible when small to medium engines can be manufactured and sold to international plane manufactures of small scale to keep finances flowing and provided there is an initial investment to start. Too many ifs.

On the other hand, its not only the PAF where we are working with engines. Here is the history of BECO - a Lahore based diesel and aircraft engine manufacturing with international suppliers back in 1960s. A complete locally owned private business, later ruined by Nationalisation policy of Bhutto. If it wasn't for this Nationalisation policy we would have better industrial and business base today. And here goes another IF!

Lanaat on those who destroyed our industries.
All my duhas for Chaudry Muhammad Latif Sahab and all others who sacrifiee their wealth and life for our country.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its the sustainable business model which is more crucial for engine manufacturing than Probably the science and tehnology bit. A business cannot solely rely on engine manufacturing when they are to sell only 10-12 engines for manufacturing of thunders a year. It is only possible when small to medium engines can be manufactured and sold to international plane manufactures of small scale to keep finances flowing and provided there is an initial investment to start. Too many ifs.

On the other hand, its not only the PAF where we are working with engines. Here is the history of BECO - a Lahore based diesel and aircraft engine manufacturing with international suppliers back in 1960s. A complete locally owned private business, later ruined by Nationalisation policy of Bhutto. If it wasn't for this Nationalisation policy we would have better industrial and business base today. And here goes another IF!

Such stories should be part of our School program

 

[jupiter2007]

Pakistan's Kamra Institute , rebuilds Mirage Engines and Services F-100 Engines for it's F16 Fleet. Since induction of JF17 Thunders, we also acquired knowledge to work on RD-33 Engines


I could not find image of F-7PG Engine


J-69 (Prototype Used for Drones , and recon birds)

C-130 Engine Repair Work (Transport Plane)

French Engines rebuild and Re-Manufacturing is a Key Success Area of PAF Kamra


Atar 9K-50 Engines for Mirage

Pratt & Whitney F100

RD-93 (Derritive from RD-33) , The power plant (Engine) for our JF-17 Thunder Block I , Block II

F100-PW-229 EEP (F-16 Block C/D)

There are talks of Future Introduction of Chinese Engines for JF17 Block III
WS-13E (Not yet being used in Pakistan Airforce)

Introduction of the WS-13E should enhance our local Manufacturing capabilities further
But at present we haev ample option to use RD-93 or It's enhanced variant



Trainer & Propeller based Engines
Presently not aware on nature of K-8 Engine and Super Mushak

K-8 Engine (Honney Well Product)

Super Mushak Engine
Lycoming O-540

What about a motorcycle engine? Can we make that in Pakistan? Or is that too advance for us?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Anything we rebuild , is same as constructing a engine same process.

Specially if we can manufacture replacement parts brand new

 

[jupiter2007]

Once we will work with Chinese Engines new doors to new knowledge will open if not already

Why so much focus on Chinese stuff, Chinese Engineers, etc? Don’t you think we can learn from other countries? Why can’t we reach out Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, Russia, Ukraine, Thailand and Iran?

I think we should improve our relationship with Taiwan.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I have done my fair share of reading up during my mechanical engineering degree with focus on aerospace design...

I don't know how you determined that the turbine stage is more critical than a compressor stage. The shape of the blades are very similar, difference being the turbine blades have to experience much higher temperatures since they are downstream of the combustion chamber. Ever wonder why a jet engine has to be externally started up to get the compressor up to speed before the turbine can kick in?

There won't be efficient combustion in the first place if your compressor isn't doing its required job. Just like a car engine is categorised on its horsepower, a jet engine is categorised based on its compression ratio.


But please enlighten me with your knowledge that you gained by reading a couple of threads on PDF.


Only an uninformed child thinks that material is the only impediment in turbine/compressor blade design.

The problem is the 200 million people you are talking about have 35 million kids that are getting only rudimentary education. Over 60% of young children dont get child development education in the earlier formative years, 40% suffer from malnutrition and have high rates of stunted growth.
That is why making jet engines is out of our domain even in our lifetimes

 

[Dubious]

@war&peace thread of your interest?

 

[war&peace]

@war&peace thread of your interest?

Yes, it is an interesting thread.
I see guys & kids analysing situation and finding the reasons such as lack of advance metallurgy industry or precision machinery or business model etc but I think these are all secondary or tertiary reasons, the primary reason are the lack of vision & future planning. Our national culture is adhocism, lethargy and just follow the destiny and flow of time instead of making things happen and do it ourselves. Just check our history that we did something only when we were forced to do, if USA kept supplying us F16s, do you think we would ever make a fighterjet? same goes for the nuclear program that after secession of East Pakistan, India tested nuke device in 1974 and only then we started our nuke program for the defence needs while India had been working on even before the independence.
However, a positive thing is that when we start a project with serious commitment and will, nothing can stop us and divine help removes obstacles created by the enemies within and outside our boundaries, and again our nuke program and JF17 projects are two big examples.. just compare the turnaround times vis-a-vis their counterpart projects by our arch rival.

 

[araz]

Any project needs $ an investment of 100 Million to 200 Million would kick start a research to make a Engine in Pakistan for Fighter Jet

In the last 15 years China has poured in 20-30 Billion dollars into research inTurbine technology and engine manufacturing. There are still specialized steel parts for JFT which are produced else where as China cannot produce-cut the specialized steel. them(courtesy @bilal khan777). Till 3years ago China was able to produce an engine in experimental stage but could not replicate the same in mass production. This may well have changed now but they still annot produce enough engines to satisfy local demand.
Point I am trying to make is not the Chinese inability which may well have been overcome but the finances required. It still remains the cheapest production line in the world due to its massive population base.
A

 

[The Accountant]

I am 100% in favor of acquiring WS-13E and J10C with it's power plant



They overhaul and repair interior parts

They take every thing apart , all nuts and bolts check each piece (6,000 parts) and if any part is defective they replace it with brand new locally made part

Put it all together and then plane Engine is tested again and Re-Certified

This is 95% knowledge of new manufacturing as have all knowledge / blue prints to put engine apart and together again

A mechanical part if serviced , regains it's full life by 85-95% very close to brand new status

First of all mirrages have old technology engines ... i.e. turbo jet not turbo fans ... secondly nit all the parts are rebuild in Pakiatan evident from the fact that we r purchasing egyptian mirrages just to be used as spares ...

I m we sure we cannot rebuild engine core and its blades as we lack capability ...

The only way forward ia to start making vehicle engines on commercial vehicles which will setup a local steel and alloy industry ...

 

[PakShaheen79]

This discussion proves that Pakistan Air Force, sooner or later, will have to establish its own center of excellence in Metallurgy.

 

[LKJ86]

Only in Pakistan jet engines are considered some sort of alien technology.... heck the Germans managed to produce one back in the 1940s. It is not new technology. Obviously producing an engine with higher thrust than what is available at the moment is a challenge, but producing an average engine should not have been a problem for 200 million people.

The bar is being raised all the time.

Producing a engine is easy, but producing a competitive one is another story.

You have to put enormous resources into that field all the time, and fewer and fewer countries can independently develop high-performance engines for fighter jets now.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

License production of engines will give us a lot of knowledge to produce an indigenous one