Pakistan/India GDP/informal economy

[Indus Pakistan]

I have always been fascinated in how economists measure performance and how accurate those figures are. There is being 'paper prosperous' and 'real life prosperous'. How accurate are the figures we hear being touted everyday in reflecting the real situation on the ground? If I have a job as electrician and I am earning good money but the taxman has no record of me, for that matter no statistician in the world will be aware of my income. But in real life my family will be living a decent life.

I mention 'electrician' because I know one from my ancestral village who makes good money, has newly built house, a car and sends his kids to private school. He has even done work in UK by coming here as on 'holiday' but then putting in 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week in factories redoing their electrical wiring until his 'holiday' ran out and he went back.

As everybody here loves chucking about GDP figures I thought I would look into this. Remember the real stock here is the real income not what is being detected in formal records. What matters is reality not what any particular number says. To measure reality requires nuanced approach rather than relying on one crude measure.

What got me thinking was according to World Bank the percentage of people living on $1.90 for 2011 was

India - 21%
Pak - 7%

Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND
Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

Now think about this? There are about three times more absolute poor in India then Pakistan. How is this possible? Either wealth is far more unfairly divided in India then or there is more wealth to share out in Pakistan thus less absolute poor. The GDP figures make India look shining.

Although not scientific and anecdotal most observors notice more visible poverty, beggers and general shambolic conditions prevailing in India (we all know the sanitation) compared to Pakistan. This while Pakistan is wracked by insurgency, war and terrorism. So what is going on here?

Well large part of of the explaination is the informal economy. The electrician I mentioned does not figure in the Pakistan GDP but he has a car, a house and for sure he has proper sanitation. This is not a exception but quite prevalent in Pakistan. Meaning despite what the numbers say the reality in Pakistan is far better as reflected in simple things like sanitation. His equivalent in India will be pulling a rickshaw in Kokatta or Delhi barely able to place bowl of rice on his table.

All this is missed in official GDP figures. The informal economy and don't forget it may not show up fancy reports or GDP but it is real, it provides jobs and has tangibile reality on the ground like that electrician I mentioned. So is there any study done to look at informal economies? Yes there have been many. It appears that all countries have informal economies but the scale varies vastly from one to another. The average for India and Pakistan are:-

India - 22%
Pak - 37%

This means the real size of Pakistan economy or the real economy is far larger then the numbers you hear everyday. Don't forget it is the real economy that feeds real people. This might explain why Pakistan does not have 2 million pulling rickshaws to fill their emaciated bellies.


India No. 39 ~ 22.2%

Pakistan - No.94 ~ 35.7%

Primary Source Shadow Economies > http://www.gfintegrity.org/storage/..._bank_shadow_economies_all_over_the_world.pdf

@django @Sinopakfriend @AndrewJin @Chinese-Dragon @Nilgiri @WAJsal @PAKISTANFOREVER @lastofthepatriots @Syed.Ali.Haider @Solomon2 @Providence @A-Team @RiazHaq

*The purpose of this is not to gloat but to stop that incessant, irritating Indian claim of rich India versus poor Pakistan. Perception often is not reality and most defintely not in this case.

 

[Tom M]

I have always been fascinated in how economists measure performance and how accurate those figures are. There is being 'paper prosperous' and 'real life prosperous'. How accurate are the figures we hear being touted everyday in reflecting the real situation on the ground. If I have a job as electrician and I am earning good money but the taxman has no record of me, for that matter no statistician in the world will be aware of my income. But in real life my family will be living a decent life.

I mention 'electrician' because I know one from my ancestral village who makes good money, has newly built house, a car and sends his kids to private school. He has even done work in UK by coming here as on 'holiday' but then putting in 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week in factories redoing their electrical wiring until his 'holiday' ran out and he went back.

As everubody here loves chucking about GDP figures I thought I would look into this. Remember the real stock here is the real income not what is being detected in formal records. What matters is reality not what any particular number says. To measure reality requires nuanced approach rather than relying on one crude measure.

What got me thinking was according to World Bank the percentage of people living on $1.90 for 2011 was

India - 21%
Pak - 7%

Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND
Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

Now think about this? There are about three times more absolute poor in India then Pakistan. How is this possible? Either wealth is far more unfairly divided in India then or there is more wealth to share out in Pakistan thus less absolute poor. The GDP figures make India look shining.

Although not scientific and anecdotal most observors notice more visible poverty, beggers and general shambolic conditions prevailing in India (we all know the sanitation) compared to Pakistan. This while Pakistan is wracked by insurgency, war and terrorism. So what is going on here?

Well large part of of the explaination is the informal economy. The electrician I mentioned does not figure in the Pakistan GDP but he has a car, a house and for sure he has proper sanitation. This is not a exception but quite prevalent in Pakistan. Meaning despite what the numbers say the reality in Pakistan is far better as reflected in simple things like sanitation. His equivalent in India will be pulling a rickshaw in Kokatta or Delhi barely able to place bowl of rice on his table.

All this is missed in official GDP figures. The informal economy and don't forget it may not show up fancy reports or GDP but it is real, it provides jobs and has tangibile reality on the ground like that electrician I mentioned. So is there any study done to look at informal economies? Yes there have been many. It appears that all countries have informal economies but the scale varies vastly from one to another. The average for India and Pakistan are:-

India - 22%
Pak - 37%

This means the real size of Pakistan economy or the real economy is far larger then the numbers you hear everyday. Don't forget it is the real economy that feeds real people. This might explain why Pakistan does not have 2 million pulling rickshaws to fill their emaciated bellies.


India No. 39 ~ 22.2%

Pakistan - No.94 ~ 35.7%

Primary Source Shadow Economies > http://www.gfintegrity.org/storage/..._bank_shadow_economies_all_over_the_world.pdf

@django @Sinopakfriend @AndrewJin @Chinese-Dragon @Nilgiri @WAJsal @PAKISTANFOREVER @lastofthepatriots @Syed.Ali.Haider @Solomon2 @Providence @A-Team @RiazHaq

Good read, and really happy to know that Pakistan is doing really good in the economic front. Hope CPEC and other such projects prove to be a game changer.

Can you please tell me how much is $1 in Pakistan right now ?? It's something around Rs. 67 - 68 in Indian currency I guess.

 

[farhan_9909]

Pakistan GDP is not well documented as we are still using 1999-2000 base year.

http://www.pbs.gov.pk/content/what-current-base-year

Nigeria when changed Base year from 1990 to 2010.GDP increased by more than 60% to become the biggest GDP of africa.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26913497

In 2012 and 2013 they planned to update it but still pending.

it will be a game changer if Pakistan GDP does increases by 40-45% as Pakistan will be back to its historic place of being second only to sri lanka in per capita income in SA.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

If I have a job as electrician and I am earning good money but the taxman has no record of me, for that matter no statistician in the world will be aware of my income. But in real life my family will be living a decent life.

This mere assumption shows how poorly you lacks the basic understanding of measuring GDP of economy and you made the whole article on this!!!!!

The electrician from wherever he is making making the money comes out from the pocket of someone? Isn't it? If not from others than govt. of Pakistan? They keep the record of currency printed, didnt they? He is buying a car, which comes out from a factory or he just happen to make it at home in his village?

You dont need to count infinite transaction domestically if you can count the source of inflow and outflows. If I give 1000 Rs to 50 people and they keep playing with it, keep donating randomly to every other person the total money with all of them combined will be 1000Rs only, irrespective of how many got 20 Rs or 100 Rs and how many got 0 or how many times they transacted.

What got me thinking was according to World Bank the percentage of people living on $1.90 for 2011 was

India - 21%
Pak - 7%

Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND
Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

This is outdated data, 5 years is a long time to make things good or worst. Would like to see some updated data soon.

Now think about this? There are about three times more absolute poor in India then Pakistan. How is this possible? Either wealth is far more unfairly divided in India then or there is more wealth to share out in Pakistan thus less absolute poor. The GDP figures make India look shining.

GDP and poverty are separate, high GDP never mean there is no income inequality. Infact the name GDP (Gross Domestic Product) itself screams about gross production irrespective of who produce how much.

Although not scientific and anecdotal most observors notice more visible poverty, beggers and general shambolic conditions prevailing in India (we all know the sanitation) compared to Pakistan. This while Pakistan is wracked by insurgency, war and terrorism. So what is going on here?

May be they got roads to reach nearby city and beg there unlike Pakistan. India has a road network of over 4,689,842 kilometres (2,914,133 mi) in 2013, the second largest road network in the world. At 0.66 km of roads per square kilometre of land, the quantitative density of India's road network is similar to that of the United States (0.65) and far higher than that of China (0.16) or Brazil (0.20).

So they can reach cities faster and you dont need to come to India to see that, just go to google maps and you will see yourself.

Transportation is a vital factor for migration of poors. The road and rail network combined can make total transportation infra of Pakistan timid. They prefer to beg or live in slum than do let their children die due to hunger in Thar desert.

Well large part of of the explaination is the informal economy. The electrician I mentioned does not figure in the Pakistan GDP but he has a car, a house and for sure he has proper sanitation. This is not a exception but quite prevalent in Pakistan.

Sometimes I wonder from where does this cr@p comes? Seriously this much BS without even knowing the difference between the GDP, Revenue and GNI per capita!

This is what happen when you learn the economics in Live with Dr. Shahid Massod program. Even if you have just read the definition or just the full form of GDP you wont be making this blunder.

Taxman keeps the record of tax payers, this is counted in Revenue of Govt. not GDP, whoever told you otherwise is a professor of Fake Exact University. Seriously this mixup is so ridiculous that I found it offensive to rape the economics!

Meaning despite what the numbers say the reality in Pakistan is far better as reflected in simple things like sanitation.

RIP economics and logic! Who needs to calculate GDP or number when I got toilet at home !

The average for India and Pakistan are:-

India - 22%
Pak - 37%

This means the real size of Pakistan economy or the real economy is far larger then the numbers you hear everyday.

Primary Source Shadow Economies > http://www.gfintegrity.org/storage/..._bank_shadow_economies_all_over_the_world.pdf

Does it ever occur to you that a small non profit Organization some GFI can calculate the Shadow economy but not the govt. of Pakistan? nor did World Bank? they dont have resource that a small timer got?

Anyways lets assume somehow GFI can outclass WorldBank, IMF and other financial institution reach which deals in trillions per day and commit billions if not trillions on their own research and the data is correct.


You intentionally (just a guess) didnt mention the data is from 1999 to 2006. 17-10 years older. Lets assume that they can somehow measure it accurately that others cant.

Now in 1999 the GDP of India was $500 Billion and Pakistan was some $60 Billion.
Lets find 22% of 500 = 110 Billion (Twice the GDP of Pakistan, just the offset).
and 35% of 60 = 21 Billion.

Now after adding the "informal GDP" as you say to both countries:

GDP + Informal GDP in 1999

India: 610 Billion.
Pakistan: 81 Billion.

So the difference between GDP of India and Pakistan just got increased even after adding the "informal GDP" from 440 Billion to 529 Billion and strangely according to your logic somehow the real increase in Indian GDP makes India poor and Pakistan richer!!!!


Lets calculate for 2006 (I guess story will be different here):
GDP in 2006
India: $1000 Billion
Pakistan: $150 Billion

Informal GDP as per your data
India (22% of 1000) = 220 Billion
Pakistan (35% of 150) = 53 Billion

GDP + Informal GDP in 2006

India: 1220 Billion
Pakistan: 203 Billion

Difference before informal GDP added : $850 Billion
Difference after informal GDP added : $ 1017 Billion

and again after adding more money to the GDP India becomes poor than Pakistan? If you cant figure out economics a basic mathematics calculation would have helped you. The base on which that 22% is calculated is significantly larger than on which 35% is calculated.


But who cares about logic and facts, Dr. Shahid Massod school of economics sells like hot cakes Seriously my Professor would have eviscerated publicly you if you presented this as study or report.

 

[AshishDelhi]

India fared better than Pakistan in recent global hunger index. Does better in HDI also. Doing better in health, education, life expectancy, infant mortality.....
Even if we believe that Pakistanis have huge hidden economy or treasure then it does not show clearly in hdi or nourishment or consumption data.
If it makes you happy that you have more hidden money then believe that and be happy.
We Indians are still under developed with lot many problems to solve. Good thing is we are getting better with time and most of us don't think that a toll plaza or minerals will improve our situation. It is going to be a gruelling process.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Well large part of of the explaination is the informal economy. The electrician I mentioned does not figure in the Pakistan GDP but he has a car, a house and for sure he has proper sanitation.

The 'electrician's' wages isn't added into the UK GDP, since he's on 'holiday', but his spending will be in Pakistan's provided that the companies that produce the building supplies include them in their financial reports.


As far as @BlackOpsIndia and @AshishDelhi are concerned:
The developed world calculates their GDP by the tax filing of companies and individuals. This is severely absent in the developing world. Where the richest of Pakistani politicians(businessmen/women) pay 2-22 rupees in taxes while holding properties in the UK and Paris. And i'm sure in India as well.

As for the reputation of GFI over the World Bank or IMF, international organizations are political in their core. The IMF came out saying how well Pakistan's economy was only in a few days to 'express concern' over the CPEC. It's pure politics while the CEO of GFI, an individual has decades of experience in the informal economy, something that the WB/ IMF don't pay much attention too.

I agree the informal economy will play a part in the HDI of a nation. But the core problem is the records of calculations.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

The developed world calculates their GDP by the tax filing of companies and individuals. This is severely absent in the developing world. Where the richest of Pakistani politicians(businessmen/women) pay 2-22 rupees in taxes while holding properties in the UK and Paris. And i'm sure in India as well.

There are 3 standard ways to calculate the GDP:

Output approach
Expenditure approach
Income approach

I guess you are talking about Income approach, which is least used as its easier to hide income be it India or UK, though in India they can do it more easily but its not so difficult in UK either. Anyways due to this the most widely used methods are Output approach and expenditure approach. They all got own advantages and disadvantages but both of them provide similar figures.

As for the reputation of GFI over the World Bank or IMF, international organizations are political in their core. The IMF came out saying how well Pakistan's economy was only in a few days to 'express concern' over the CPEC. It's pure politics while the CEO of GFI, an individual has decades of experience in the informal economy, something that the WB/ IMF don't pay much attention too.

IMF and WB actually commit the money in loans to these nations, they are not for charity or destroy any country however political you think they are. They invest money and they have to get it back its top priority not politics.

CEO and team at GFI can be Nelson Madela for all I care I was talking about resources. Its a non profit organization.

Even the credit rating agencies keep track of every movement in GDP and GDP data thats the reason they can predict it so close. Its about resources not intention, when you invest your own money and reputation you do it only after proper due diligence. These are not covert CIA based agencies trying to destroy Pakistan or any other country.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

IMF and WB actually commit the money in loans to these nations, they are not for charity or destroy any country however political you think they are. They invest money and they have to get it back its top priority not politics.

Getting money back is not the priority of the employees at the WB or IMF. It's the loans that they can push out. There's no accountability there, each month the amount of turnover or rotations is absurd. Open the following links.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/The-World-Bank-Reviews-E41195.htm
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IMF-Reviews-E9678.htm

It's not their priority to get the money back. The countries have signed the loan and owe money to powerful nations. The nations will make sure the money gets paid back.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-imf-world-bank-have-different-gdp-per-capita-data-sarah-dion

This is how nations calculate GDP:

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/nationalaccount/docs/1993sna.pdf

 

[Kambojaric]

Pakistan GDP is not well documented as we are still using 1999-2000 base year.

http://www.pbs.gov.pk/content/what-current-base-year

Nigeria when changed Base year from 1990 to 2010.GDP increased by more than 60% to become the biggest GDP of africa.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26913497

In 2012 and 2013 they planned to update it but still pending.

it will be a game changer if Pakistan GDP does increases by 40-45% as Pakistan will be back to its historic place of being second only to sri lanka in per capita income in SA.

Don't understand why they haven't updated the base year yet! :/
Its sure as hell one great way of showing your financial viability, in order to attract more FDI.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Getting money back is not the priority of the employees at the WB or IMF. It's the loans that they can push out. There's no accountability there, each month the amount of turnover or rotations is absurd. Open the following links.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/The-World-Bank-Reviews-E41195.htm
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IMF-Reviews-E9678.htm

It's not their priority to get the money back.

Seriously!!!! You gave me link of a jobs website for the policy decision of IMF!!! This is crazy!

Your logic is like since everyone is afraid to die no army in world will fight other cuz the employees of that army dont want to die?

The countries have signed the loan and owe money to powerful nations. The nations will make sure the money gets paid back.

Here, https://www.imf.org/external/about.htm

See about the board before you make absurd claims like that. When was the last time the "powerful nations" issued a threat or warning or fought war when a weaker nation didnt pay the loan? Visit the link before and read a bit before you make any wild west and gangsters like claims.

You can also watch this:

Read about SDR, Quota, Accountability, Voting and other important things on the link to know more about its working.

 

[Nilgiri]

What got me thinking was according to World Bank the percentage of people living on $1.90 for 2011 was

India - 21%
Pak - 7%

The figure is more like 12% for 2011 for India (under the MMRP method). World Bank commented many times that the URP method used by India back then was inaccurate and grossly overestimated the poverty rate given it forced people to recount their consumption under a fixed timeframe as opposed to MMRP which is much more flexible and deemed to be much more accurate as a result (so much so it is becoming the standard for world poverty metrics right now).

Meaning despite what the numbers say the reality in Pakistan is far better as reflected in simple things like sanitation.

What is really more troubling is that the benefits of the better sanitation coverage are not translating to lower mortality rates (especially among children) and health in Pakistan compared to India.

The concept of "underground" social development may also be something that needs to be explored in the same way as the underground economy to ascertain why this is.

His equivalent in India will be pulling a rickshaw in Kokatta or Delhi barely able to place bowl of rice on his table.

Same thing here. Overall malnourished population in India stands at 15.2%, whereas it is 22% for Pakistan. The stunting rate for Pakistan's children actually increased from 41% to 45% from 2008 to 2016. It dropped from 48% to 39% in the same time period in India.

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/PAK/

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/IND/

This is a very concerning trend for Pakistan along with the decreasing literacy rate reported by PBS. This is reflecting in Pakistan's life expectancy and especially its infant mortality rate being much worse than India (some 15 years behind) and overall South Asian average. Demographically Pakistan is growing at a population growth rate that India was 25 years ago. These are real problems that Pakistan has to address. The shadow economy while it exists, cannot be used to shield these real socio-economic problems reported by Pakistan itself.

All this is missed in official GDP figures. The informal economy and don't forget it may not show up fancy reports or GDP but it is real, it provides jobs and has tangibile reality on the ground like that electrician I mentioned. So is there any study done to look at informal economies? Yes there have been many. It appears that all countries have informal economies but the scale varies vastly from one to another.

The closest we come to taking into account the informal economy is using the PPP metric for GDP, given this takes into account price levels of a myriad of goods and services all across the country rather than just those consumed by the wealthy and upper middle class (that are taxed and recorded/logged into the nominal size of the economy in some way).

I have talked about this many times, a multiplier is in effect created for the economy. This multiplier decreases over time as an economy becomes more integrated with the world economy (and there are fewer isolated "shadow" spots of GDP in both frequency and size) and its own domestic financial/administrative structure (one necessarily includes the other generally speaking).

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Seriously!!!! You gave me link of a jobs website for the policy decision of IMF!!! This is crazy!

You live to far away to meet actual WB/IMF employees, to read their critiques of them.

Ask yourself, who goes to the WB/IMF?

Answer: Nations that don't have other options. You think the WB/IMF will give or have the capacity to give Pakistan $49 Billion or Greece $150 billion? They are there to prop up a nation's economy. As you heard from seeker daily's video.

If a nation doesn't pay the loan back you think they'll ever be able to get another one? From where? There's no wild west claims. The voting nations based on their percentage guarantee whether or not a project goes thru, it's the job of the managing directors of a project to make sure it goes thru to showcase their "abilities", whether or not it gets paid or has the impact it was projected to isn't their concern.

@Shotgunner51

 

[liall]

There are other indicators if you actually do not believe in GDP numbers but which are highly correlated to GDP. If you are comparing GDP per capita a look at electricity per capita consumed, oil per capita consumed, number of cars/bikes owned per 1000 population, FDI, HDI etc. All of these indicators are easy to measure and can not be faked or stashed away in hidden economy.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Nilgiri Those stats you provide come from some non for profit outfit that could be set up by any pressure group with some financial backing. Their stats are dubvious to say the least. It is slightly better then those reports you get declaring SSG the best Commando force in the world, or PAF the second best airforce in the world.

In particular IFPRI entire South Asian office is ran by Indians. That destroys any chance of impartiality. It is like having @RiazHaq as the director of their South Asian report and then claming it is 'unbiased'. I don't think you would accept that.

Furthermore IFPR has no access to primary data whereas World Bank do. I wonder where they got their data from? They clearly do not have any assets inside Pakistan to carry out surveys. They just rehash from other sources. They bring no independant sourcing whatsoever.

Profile
Pramod Joshi
Senior Management (Active Member)


Director for South Asia

Profile
Rajul Pandya-Lorch

Senior Management (Active Member)
Head 2020 Vision Initiative and Chief of Staff


Link > http://www.ifpri.org/staff?f[0]=im_field_profile_position:14


@Theoretic Muslim If you think IMF are subject to politics or bias what do you think a private outfit like IFPRI is capable. At least IMF and World are less subject to being pliable. All it takes is @RiazHaq getting job in IFPR and reports would show half of India eating each other to keep alive.

 

[Kharral]

I have always been fascinated in how economists measure performance and how accurate those figures are. There is being 'paper prosperous' and 'real life prosperous'. How accurate are the figures we hear being touted everyday in reflecting the real situation on the ground? If I have a job as electrician and I am earning good money but the taxman has no record of me, for that matter no statistician in the world will be aware of my income. But in real life my family will be living a decent life.

I mention 'electrician' because I know one from my ancestral village who makes good money, has newly built house, a car and sends his kids to private school. He has even done work in UK by coming here as on 'holiday' but then putting in 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week in factories redoing their electrical wiring until his 'holiday' ran out and he went back.

As everybody here loves chucking about GDP figures I thought I would look into this. Remember the real stock here is the real income not what is being detected in formal records. What matters is reality not what any particular number says. To measure reality requires nuanced approach rather than relying on one crude measure.

What got me thinking was according to World Bank the percentage of people living on $1.90 for 2011 was

India - 21%
Pak - 7%

Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND
Link > http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

Now think about this? There are about three times more absolute poor in India then Pakistan. How is this possible? Either wealth is far more unfairly divided in India then or there is more wealth to share out in Pakistan thus less absolute poor. The GDP figures make India look shining.

Although not scientific and anecdotal most observors notice more visible poverty, beggers and general shambolic conditions prevailing in India (we all know the sanitation) compared to Pakistan. This while Pakistan is wracked by insurgency, war and terrorism. So what is going on here?

Well large part of of the explaination is the informal economy. The electrician I mentioned does not figure in the Pakistan GDP but he has a car, a house and for sure he has proper sanitation. This is not a exception but quite prevalent in Pakistan. Meaning despite what the numbers say the reality in Pakistan is far better as reflected in simple things like sanitation. His equivalent in India will be pulling a rickshaw in Kokatta or Delhi barely able to place bowl of rice on his table.

All this is missed in official GDP figures. The informal economy and don't forget it may not show up fancy reports or GDP but it is real, it provides jobs and has tangibile reality on the ground like that electrician I mentioned. So is there any study done to look at informal economies? Yes there have been many. It appears that all countries have informal economies but the scale varies vastly from one to another. The average for India and Pakistan are:-

India - 22%
Pak - 37%

This means the real size of Pakistan economy or the real economy is far larger then the numbers you hear everyday. Don't forget it is the real economy that feeds real people. This might explain why Pakistan does not have 2 million pulling rickshaws to fill their emaciated bellies.


India No. 39 ~ 22.2%

Pakistan - No.94 ~ 35.7%

Primary Source Shadow Economies > http://www.gfintegrity.org/storage/..._bank_shadow_economies_all_over_the_world.pdf

@django @Sinopakfriend @AndrewJin @Chinese-Dragon @Nilgiri @WAJsal @PAKISTANFOREVER @lastofthepatriots @Syed.Ali.Haider @Solomon2 @Providence @A-Team @RiazHaq

*The purpose of this is not to gloat but to stop that incessant, irritating Indian claim of rich India versus poor Pakistan. Perception often is not reality and most defintely not in this case.

Thanks for sharing this insight, I was planning to write some thing similar with the help of an accountant friend. Pakistans major weakness or strength ( depends how you look at it ) is the economy being massively unregulated & unaccounted for. One thing that I have observed so far which I believe is very unique & peculiar to Pakistani society & its collective character is the social support structure, there is an invisible yet a very strong 'Helping out' or support culture not just in Pakistan but where ever Pakistani diaspora resides & that's why I believe poverty in its extreme form is rare in Pakistan.

The other thing I find interesting or annoying to be honest is our acute sense of self loathing & overly self critical attitude. We just don't give ourselves enough credit.

These are just my 2 observations & I could very well be wrong.