Pakistan Inadvertantly Admits That Its First Strike Capability Is Neutered:--

[Mrc]

Nuke strike was not on carier .... it was parked in vicinity....miles away

Direct nuke strike.... depending on nuke.... this carier will evaporate...without a trace that it ever existed

 

[B@KH]

99% of my post was about what ails Pakistan but you took the last 1% and used it to write all this about India. In the process you missed or managed to completely forget the original problem being discussed here - which Pakistan's inability to recognize, admit then work to solve the dire straits it has pushed itself into. you are within on epost proving @MastanKhan's point about this inability to see yourself in a mirror and see what has become of you!

While experiencing serious problems it is human nature to compare with the neighbor - but in addition to that comparison which can give momentary solace, you still have to repair yourself. Indians did that and succeeded. You guys failed and are simply stuck and reduced to taking solace at whenever something goes wrong in India.

Wouldn't it be great for a change to make something go right in Pakistan?

the poster is fearing the growing indian power and suggested to give military bases and renting military to foreigners to make his country secure of indian threats. and your post smells that it is due to Adi or Ghandi that India has become threatening. People like Imam Khomeini, Jinnah, Dr. Iqbal, Adi or ghandi build nations and civilizations. they cannot allow their nations to build nukes and start adventures. Pak was former usa ally, India is new usa ally, india too will be discarded by usa to split and will be worst than what pak is facing.

what pak needs? The only thing pak needs is to get rid of wahabi yoke and treat its nationals equally. saudi is never a friend of pak and having defence pacts with india conspired against pak thru wars and terror.

Once pak is independent it will take a huge leap in science and technology.

 

[MastanKhan]

do you know how dangerous cruise missiles are especially ones that can be fired mobile launchers.


you could have a few of these Babur systems behind a mountain and fire in front and have the missile do a U turn towards the enemy.

the U.S isn't all knowing all seeing.

Hi,

If you are still interested---you would have read in the last few days that a US navy cruiser destroyed about 10 incoming anti ship missiles in the seas around Yemen---.

 

[Basel]

lol, Mastan and his retarded threads. You are getting boring now.

U.S would have to intercept every missile in the region because they won't know which is nuclear tipped and which is not. Moreover, salvo of cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and air-launched nuclear-tipped missiles is almost impossible to defend against---and Aegis has its limitations too. You don't expect entire U.S naval air-defence to get assembled on indian sea boundary to defend indians. You are basically just rambling at this point.

indian ABM is not even ready and deployed yet FFS!! Its still couple of years away...

All Pakistan need is to come up with MIRVs and naval launched nuclear baburs...and there you have it---assurity of a nuclear strike of major indian cities.

Stop with these childish insecure thread of yours--that you open so that you can get "reassurances" that Pakistan is in safe hands. Don't push your old age insecurities on this forum

HGV is next step to make things difficult for any ABM/BMD.

 

[Vortex]

When we heard that USA are preparing future technology to hit anywhere in the world in less than 2 hours, I'm having big difficulties to understand how our nukes will be of any use...

We should have in addition to our nukes, please note that I said in addition, not replace with, strong conventional capabilities at more than "enough" level.

Today is time to prepare the wars of tomorrow. It is only possible if we know thinking out of the box.

Remember nukes were the results of out of the box thinking.

In this way @MastanKhan is right.

And if today's ABM are not 100% efficient, with next Gen computer called quantic computers, be sure ABM will make a huge jump in the efficiency.

I took USA as example, but don't forget that India is close to them and to Isreal. 2 nations who learnt how to think out of the box.

Unfortunately I see that we Pakistanis are not able to make our way of thinking more efficient... Very sad.

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

I do not think that any pakistani had noticed that in the recent statements by pakistani officials---the state of pakistan has advertantly admitted that it has lost its first strike capability over indian soil.

The suggestion that we are going to use the nucs on our soil to destroy the incoming enemy force was a tantamount to admission of a failed nuc strike capability across the border.

What that means is that pakistan is now admitting that india has ABM's that will take out its nucs during flight---and the next frightening thing for pakistan is that the long range nuc tipped missiles would be taken out on the pakistani side by indian ABM capabilities.

As the hostilities will grow---the U S navy would also be deploying its Aegis class frigates in the arabian sea closer to the pakistan indian borders----. The sole purpose would be to intercept the pakistani nuc tipped missiles that could fly into india.

They could also intercept any indian nuc tipped missiles flying into pakistan----but due to the geography and geometry----all the pakistan launched missiles could be intercepted---because they would be coming in---but the indian missiles would not be---even though the american missiles try as much---because they would be going away from the launch vehicle---.

View attachment 288123

Just for reference sake---if you look at the map of pakistan and india----an aegis class cruiser off the coast of gujrat can intercept many a missiles coming into india.

The indian ABM's will cover the rest halfway above rajasthan. This is what I have been trying to explain in my last few posts---I did not want to get directly into the tactical issue---but the thing is that the U S is not going to allow pakistan to use its nucs successfully.

The U S is going to be a player in the game---whether pakistan likes it or don't. That is why I have been writing over here---there is no way out for pakistan other than gaining conventional strength.

If the generals are saying that cannot happen---then those generals need to be FIRED and those who can---need to be put incharge.

And again for that reason---I bring back the Yemen issue---. A 15--20 billion dollars cash upfront for the first year would have taken care of most of the strike capabilities of pakistan and 5 billion a year after that would have taken care of the major issues.

It would also had given air force bases to pakistan on the arab land to strike deep into the indian flank---and alongwith another extra 150 k troops to gain strength from at time of crisis---.

And again to thos who have not read my yemen strike force numbers here they are----.

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

Pakistan would build a military cantonment at gwadar---a full blooded campaign would be started for new recruits---all newly retd general staff and officers be recalled to active duty.

With the funds----pakistan would purchase at least 100 J10C's or100 SU35's----around a 100 JH7B's or a 100 SU34's----.

For the navy---at least 2 to 4 latest models of 052's and the 054's---between 5000 to 8000 + tonnage range----10 + upgraded F22 frigate

For the army a build up to at least 10 divs of armor and artillery and 5 battalions of LR sams etc----and 5 divs of infantry.

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

We already know that karachi and lahore and multan would be destroyed---so we need to destroy what the enemy loves the most---where it would hurt the most.

Basically the time for a nuclear is over for pakistan. Nuclear wars look good to poor nations---nations who are in the recovery mode and see a light at the end of he tunnel---must refrain and find other means to counter---.

Great strategic analysis from a used car salesmen! We can deliver nukes on a donkey cart, delivery system is not needed.

 

[MastanKhan]

Great strategic analysis from a used car salesmen! We can deliver nukes on a donkey cart, delivery system is not needed.

Hi,

How you doing baby?

So---if the CART is not available---maybe tire is punctured---can they strap it on your back---and then you can trot over across the border----

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

How you doing baby?

So---if the CART is not available---maybe tire is punctured---can they strap it on your back---and then you can trot over across the border----

Yes why not that is why they have suitcase nukes, the name can be changed to backpack nukes. I am sure thousands will volunteer to carry them. You never know they might already be delivered and simply waiting for a signal.

 

[airmarshal]

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

What are you talking about?

USA is Saudi Arabia daddy. If a war scenario in which you are saying American Nay will be helping India, do you think Saudis and UAE will ever offend their dad, the USA?

I do agree to some extent that if deployment of contingent of army could get us some money to finance new weapons, that will be a good idea.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

I do not think that any pakistani had noticed that in the recent statements by pakistani officials---the state of pakistan has advertantly admitted that it has lost its first strike capability over indian soil.

The suggestion that we are going to use the nucs on our soil to destroy the incoming enemy force was a tantamount to admission of a failed nuc strike capability across the border.

What that means is that pakistan is now admitting that india has ABM's that will take out its nucs during flight---and the next frightening thing for pakistan is that the long range nuc tipped missiles would be taken out on the pakistani side by indian ABM capabilities.

As the hostilities will grow---the U S navy would also be deploying its Aegis class frigates in the arabian sea closer to the pakistan indian borders----. The sole purpose would be to intercept the pakistani nuc tipped missiles that could fly into india.

They could also intercept any indian nuc tipped missiles flying into pakistan----but due to the geography and geometry----all the pakistan launched missiles could be intercepted---because they would be coming in---but the indian missiles would not be---even though the american missiles try as much---because they would be going away from the launch vehicle---.

View attachment 288123

Just for reference sake---if you look at the map of pakistan and india----an aegis class cruiser off the coast of gujrat can intercept many a missiles coming into india.

The indian ABM's will cover the rest halfway above rajasthan. This is what I have been trying to explain in my last few posts---I did not want to get directly into the tactical issue---but the thing is that the U S is not going to allow pakistan to use its nucs successfully.

The U S is going to be a player in the game---whether pakistan likes it or don't. That is why I have been writing over here---there is no way out for pakistan other than gaining conventional strength.

If the generals are saying that cannot happen---then those generals need to be FIRED and those who can---need to be put incharge.

And again for that reason---I bring back the Yemen issue---. A 15--20 billion dollars cash upfront for the first year would have taken care of most of the strike capabilities of pakistan and 5 billion a year after that would have taken care of the major issues.

It would also had given air force bases to pakistan on the arab land to strike deep into the indian flank---and alongwith another extra 150 k troops to gain strength from at time of crisis---.

And again to thos who have not read my yemen strike force numbers here they are----.

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

Pakistan would build a military cantonment at gwadar---a full blooded campaign would be started for new recruits---all newly retd general staff and officers be recalled to active duty.

With the funds----pakistan would purchase at least 100 J10C's or100 SU35's----around a 100 JH7B's or a 100 SU34's----.

For the navy---at least 2 to 4 latest models of 052's and the 054's---between 5000 to 8000 + tonnage range----10 + upgraded F22 frigate

For the army a build up to at least 10 divs of armor and artillery and 5 battalions of LR sams etc----and 5 divs of infantry.

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

We already know that karachi and lahore and multan would be destroyed---so we need to destroy what the enemy loves the most---where it would hurt the most.

Basically the time for a nuclear is over for pakistan. Nuclear wars look good to poor nations---nations who are in the recovery mode and see a light at the end of he tunnel---must refrain and find other means to counter---.

you must be smoking something, this a new height even for you
i admit i havent read beyond the first line..why?

USA has spent billion of dollars, has bulit a sophisticated network of satellite, interception missles, kinetic vehicle and sea based systems and yet 1/2 tests fail..and it admits that system is not ready for intermediate and long range system...so how come india will do it..the technology doesnt exist..and we even havent brought up the MRV systems into the equation, the proof concept is not solid for that!

even indians who are always high on marijuana dont claim this..

if you want to prove that we dont have second strike/first stike, a more plausible approach will be the Hollywood/bollywood approach, where special forces locate, come and steal all 150 warheads

I do agree to some extent that if deployment of contingent of army could get us some money to finance new weapons, that will be a good idea.

unfortunately we care about other countries than actually doing politics and getting advantage of the situation
look at Egypt for exmple

all current system are geared towards low altitude systems, i doubt any system can track and engage the, at high altitude
engaging a MRV would be next impossible.

 

[MastanKhan]

you must be smoking something, this a new height even for you
i admit i havent read beyond the first line..why?

USA has spent billion of dollars, has bulit a sophisticated network of satellite, interception missles, kinetic vehicle and sea based systems and yet 1/2 tests fail..and it admits that system is not ready for intermediate and long range system...so how come india will do it..the technology doesnt exist..and we even havent brought up the MRV systems into the equation, the proof concept is not solid for that!

even indians who are always high on marijuana dont claim this..

if you want to prove that we dont have second strike/first stike, a more plausible approach will be the Hollywood/bollywood approach, where special forces locate, come and steal all 150 warheads


unfortunately we care about other countries than actually doing politics and getting advantage of the situation
look at Egypt for exmple

all current system are geared towards low altitude systems, i doubt any system can track and engage the, at high altitude
engaging a MRV would be next impossible.

Hi,

Young man---when a test fails---it means the next test is closer to success---.

The countries that don't care about themselves first---cannot take care of themselves either---.

How about your household---do you care about them first or do you give all your money to other households---and let your family starve---.

 

[Arsalan 345]

indian abms and even indian ballistic missiles can be targeted and there is no mention of cruise missiles.pakistan are making more and more cruise missiles for the same purpose.it is not like we fire ballistic missile without any knowledge of Indian abms and their possible intercept paths.also mirv technology gives Pakistan a limited advantage.the theory that all ballistic missiles will be blown by Indian abms is not true.pakistan have large number of ballistic missiles but it's upgrading it continuously.there are parameters like what if abms try to hit our ballistic missile.pakistani scientists are not fools.also Chinese scientists are present on every sensitive facility where we are developing these ballistic missiles.they have abms but I don't think that they can destroy all our ballistic missiles within air.this is not practically possible.americans in case of war between India and Pakistan,will have to face Chinese Navy on gwadar.pakistan is developing gwadar for a military purpose.economic purpose is just to fool the audience.

 

[General General]

I don't think the tactical nukes development by Pakistan military was in relevance to the Indian nuclear programme, or their anti-ballistic systems for that matter.
The way I understand this progression is that it was meant as a counter to a conventional military strategy of the Cold Start Doctrine; a blitzkrieg, in other words.
Since India has a policy of no-first use, which states that it will not use nuclear weapons unless India is attacked first with a WMD, tactical nukes will be used on Pakistani territory, India will not be justified to counter with similar non-conventional weapons.
Some with limited knowledge about such policies might argue that if Pakistan uses tactical nukes on Indian troops and armour, even if those said troops are in Pakistani territory, India can respond with nuclear weapons as well.
That would be a significant deviation from the policy and the specific scenario.
Personal and patriotic ego aside, a no-first use policy country is bound by the terms not to use nuclear weapons first, even if their entire military is being wiped out on foreign soil. This is a risk Indian commanders will have to calculate on top of escalating the battle into a full-blown war with ballistic and cruise missiles.
As far as anti-ballistic systems are concerned, it is an extremely complex field. The U.S. has invested incalculable amounts in networks of satellites, radars, interceptors and sub-stations around the world. Even then its effectiveness is not satisfactory.
Their best systems are short range ones, and even after pumping more than $100 billion in the past 15 years, the mid-course interceptor systems are significantly under-performing.

 

[PakSword]

What an intelligent analysis in the OP.

 

[Lil Mathew]

I don't think the tactical nukes development by Pakistan military was in relevance to the Indian nuclear programme, or their anti-ballistic systems for that matter.
The way I understand this progression is that it was meant as a counter to a conventional military strategy of the Cold Start Doctrine; a blitzkrieg, in other words.
Since India has a policy of no-first use, which states that it will not use nuclear weapons unless India is attacked first with a WMD, tactical nukes will be used on Pakistani territory, India will not be justified to counter with similar non-conventional weapons.
Some with limited knowledge about such policies might argue that if Pakistan uses tactical nukes on Indian troops and armour, even if those said troops are in Pakistani territory, India can respond with nuclear weapons as well.
That would be a significant deviation from the policy and the specific scenario.
Personal and patriotic ego aside, a no-first use policy country is bound by the terms not to use nuclear weapons first, even if their entire military is being wiped out on foreign soil. This is a risk Indian commanders will have to calculate on top of escalating the battle into a full-blown war with ballistic and cruise missiles.
As far as anti-ballistic systems are concerned, it is an extremely complex field. The U.S. has invested incalculable amounts in networks of satellites, radars, interceptors and sub-stations around the world. Even then its effectiveness is not satisfactory.
Their best systems are short range ones, and even after pumping more than $100 billion in the past 15 years, the mid-course interceptor systems are significantly under-performing.

You are wrong there...
India already made it clear that, "a nuclear attack on its forces on Pakistani territory would be considered a full-scale nuclear attack on India, and it reserves the right to act accordingly"...
Our no first use policy is based on " MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) doctrine... That is our nuclear weapons are only for deterring the enemy to use nuclear weapons of any kind be it tactical ya strategic...