Pakistan faces economic challenges: A conversation with Princeton economist Professor Atif Mian and Shuja Nawaz

[Dalit]

I hear you; Trust is important, especially if people are going to be asked to make tough reforms. If we have an issue with this specific person, let’s take what he has to say and hire experts we trust to review it. Considering how well they have developed and the economic integration we hope to achieve with them, let’s hire Chinese experts to go over what is proposed.

‘CPEC on track, but Pakistan needs to employ Chinese experts’

ISLAMABAD: Outgoing Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan, Amb Yao Jing, has said that the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) would be better served if Pakistan appointed officials who are experts on th

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I agree wholeheartedly. It is a shame that US think tanks are organising talks on Pakistani economy. This should be an initiative taken by Pakistani media and think tanks. I don't want to hear or know how Pakistani economy is performing through a hostile and dubious think tank. I want to hear it from our own sources. We lack severely in this area.

 

[Azadkashmir]

He is been barking a lot lately Atif Mian. He is a favorite of libturds in Pakistan. That is all I need to know.


This guy is a foreign asset. Look at his credentials and CV. They pushed this guy to the front during PTI election victory. You know who I mean with they. He didn't make it for a multitude of reasons and rightly so. He is nowadays a so-called expert on Pakistani economy and US/Western powers pretend he is an authority who knows the ins and outs. I would advice you to take every letter coming out of his mouth with precaution.

All you need to know is that once American institutions are involved in any Pakistan related discussion there are a pack of lies. We are very lucky in a sense in Pakistan. Not many people have internet access in Pakistan even though the number is increasing. Today half the battle is won and lost on the internet through social media etc. The American think tanks and intelligence community have been trying to use the internet as a platform to wage a battle of hearts and minds. They are luckily fighting a lost battle. Our populace is smart enough, but this is a very sophisticated war being fought. It is a blessing in disguise for Pakistan.

rothschild funded institutions of brainwashing future agents

 

[Dalit]

rothschild funded institutions of brainwashing future agents

Everyone knows it. These think tanks are affiliated with a government and even have linkages with intelligence agencies. They serve an agenda. Why the heck should Pakistanis living in Pakistan listen to foreign funded think tanks who have interests at stake? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

The US is the same country that has made absolutely no secret of hurting Pakistan economically, militarily etc. Now according to some we should lean back and pretend that a US funded think tank is going to tell all Pakistanis the truth regarding the state of its economy.

 

[FuturePAF]

I agree wholeheartedly. It is a shame that US think tanks are organising talks on Pakistani economy. This should be an initiative taken by Pakistani media and think tanks. I don't want to hear or know how Pakistani economy is performing through a hostile and dubious think tank. I want to hear it from our own sources. We lack severely in this area.

We can’t expect Pakistani institutions that have failed to deliver to do any different, which is why we need to bring in a fresh set of eyes, that have already been vetted for trust.

Having said that, if their recommendations are similar to what this America based expert proposes, would you agree that we should carry them out. I have watched the whole video, the key take aways I heard was the industries need to be opened up to allow entrepreneurs to invest on a level playing field with well established companies and land owners (remember the story of the Egyptian that wanted to open a hotel in Pakistan but after 14 years of red tape gave up and went home). Secondly, land owners are profiting from the appreciation of the land without paying tax, while a commercial entrepreneur has to pay tax.

More so then this economist, I listened to this YouTuber, (that has met the Prime minister) who seems to only live and work in Pakistan, so you can say he is 100% invested in Pakistan. This podcast was eye opening for me. Please watch it and let me know what you think:

 

[Pak Nationalist]

Any opinion manufactured in US think tanks needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. We need all viewers to remember that the US is a hostile nations towards Pakistan.

BTW, he is a Professor in one of the world's foremost universities, not a think tanker himself. If he talks about the cause for Pakistan's lagging in the economic realm is our abysmally low Exports per capita compared to our regional peers. How that is indicative of the low productivity of our economy/its driving institutions, elite (he defines the elite as the same way you do) capture of the state, you should be skeptical of that statement of fact as well only because he speaks on Atlantic council-led talk here? Again, Hussain Haqqani is not an economist. You could compare Dr. Moeed and Hussain Haqqani, but not Atif Mian and Hussain Haqqani because the former share a similar domain where traversing the minefields of geopolitics is their bread and butter.

I agree wholeheartedly. It is a shame that US think tanks are organising talks on Pakistani economy. This should be an initiative taken by Pakistani media and think tanks. I don't want to hear or know how Pakistani economy is performing through a hostile and dubious think tank. I want to hear it from our own sources. We lack severely in this area.

What he is talking about in the first part of the video (till where I have watched), we talk daily on those same lines at PDF. Low Exports as a percentage of GDP, capped productivity of the economy, elite capture of state and rent-seeking, and so on.

 

[Dalit]

BTW, he is a Professor in one of the world's foremost universities, not a think tanker himself. If he talks about the cause for Pakistan's lagging in the economic realm is our abysmally low Exports per capita compared to our regional peers. How that is indicative of the low productivity of our economy/its driving institutions, elite (he defines the elite as the same way you do) capture of the state, you should be skeptical of that statement of fact as well only because he speaks on Atlantic council-led talk here? Again, Hussain Haqqani is not an economist. You could compare Dr. Moeed and Hussain Haqqani, but not Atif Mian and Hussain Haqqani because the former share a similar domain where traversing the minefields of geopolitics is their bread and butter.

What he is talking about in the first part of the video (till where I have watched), we talk daily on those same lines at PDF. Low Exports as a percentage of GDP, capped productivity of the economy, elite capture of state and rent-seeking, and so on.

All of it might be true, but I doubt the sincerity and intentions.

Like I said, for me it is end of discussion when an American think tank is behind any Pakistan related discussion. We need to ask ourselves the question whether US organised Pakistan discussions are worth viewing. They are politically motivated and the US is always involved in some sort of nefarious propaganda. There is always a catch with the Americans.

I fully endorse discussions related to any topic as long as the source is authentic. Indians also hold various Pakistan related discussions. Do we take Indian discussions seriously? We should treat US sponsored Pakistan discussions in a similar fashion in my opinion.

We can’t expect Pakistani institutions that have failed to deliver to do any different, which is why we need to bring in a fresh set of eyes, that have already been vetted for trust.

Having said that, if their recommendations are similar to what this America based expert proposes, would you agree that we should carry them out. I have watched the whole video, the key take aways I heard was the industries need to be opened up to allow entrepreneurs to invest on a level playing field with well established companies and land owners (remember the story of the Wfyptian that wante to open a hotel in Pakistan but after 14 years of red tape gave up and went hole). Secondly, land owners are profiting from the appreciation of the land without paying tax, while a commercial entrepreneur has to pay tax.

More so the this economist, I listened to this YouTuber, (that has met the Prime minister) who seems to only live and work in Pakistan. This podcast was eye opening for me. Please watch it and let me know what you think:

We already know that there are a bunch of problems in Pakistan. No one is denying that. My only concern is the authenticity of the source.

American sponsored Pakistan discussions should be treated in a similar fashion as we treat Indian diatribe. I don't care what the panel looks like. Even if an angel participated in A US sponsored think tank event I would view it with grave suspicion.

Let's not pretend that America is a friend of Pakistan. It is not. The United States speaks Indian tounge.

 

[R Wing]

Please do not commit the genetic logical fallacy. Listen to what he is saying and give convincing arguments on why you believe what he is saying is incorrect rather than attacking his person based on where he comes from. You have had an entire PM that was "imported" and worked in the same Western world's corporate corridors. Even our ex- FM Sheikh has served with the same multilateral financial institutions.

The global economic circles acclaim him highly not because of a plan to install him at some position in Pakistan but based on his academic credentials and research output. Let us not shun our brightest and best just because our assumed enemies think highly of them. Their metrics for judging their intellect might be more benign and academic than you could imagine. Therefore, evaluate the person based on what he is saying rather than where he comes from. A kind word of caution.

I would try to do that after I listen to this exchange. It might be a couple of days, though. I am sure this interview would be a treat to watch.

Appreciate it. I've met Atif Mian at Princeton. I don't care much for those with very little skin in the game but that doesn't mean --- as you pointed out already in your post --- that he doesn't have potentially good advice. It's pretty obvious that Pakistan's fundamental issue is that its exports SUCK and its imports keep growing.

Let me give you a very simple example. Let's compare two persons who have been living and working in the US. There is a day and night difference between Atif Mian and Moeed Yusuf. You know why? When Moeed Yusuf used to walk in US think tank corridors they used to call him an ISI agent. You know why Western media don't call Atif Mian an ISI agent? Because he doesn't have any loyalty towards Pakistan.

I am not attacking Atif Mian because he lives and works in the US. I am calling his analysis into question because his credentials speak volume. Atif Mian is not a Moeed Yusuf.

Hussain Haqqani is also bright. Very bright in fact. Is he loyal towards Pakistan? You already know the answer. Don't confuse patriotism and loyalty with IQ. You can have the best mind on the planet, but if your allegiance lies elsewhere it is practically useless.

Of course I get what you're saying --- and I am very weary of 'imports' and those who can make predictions --- with very little skin in the game --- based on academic credentials alone. But, as @Pak Nationalist pointed out quite rightly, we should take it a step further and analyze arguments on their own merit.

 

[Dalit]

Appreciate it. I've met Atif Mian at Princeton. I don't care much for those with very little skin in the game but that doesn't mean --- as you pointed out already in your post --- that he doesn't have potentially good advice. It's pretty obvious that Pakistan's fundamental issue is that its exports SUCK and its imports keep growing.



Of course I get what you're saying --- and I am very weary of 'imports' and those who can make predictions --- with very little skin in the game --- based on academic credentials alone. But, as @Pak Nationalist pointed out quite rightly, we should take it a step further and analyze arguments on their own merit.

Frankly, we don't need Atif Mian's advice on something we have already figured out ages ago. This was known long before the PTI government won the elections in Pakistan.

I want to see a quality in-depth discussion on Pak economy organised by various Pakistani think tanks, media groups and certain social media pundits. I don't claim to be an expert on economy. I do know which sources to trust and rely on.

 

[Menace2Society]

You have under achieved and its okay to recognize this because if every Pakistani was driving a taxi in the UK then I would accept we are just not capable but that is not the case. However the most irritating aspect of Pakistan is the inconsistency. Sometimes brilliance, other times below average. Huge flaw.

How long would it take to go from this

to this? This is Kuala Lumpur. A realistic aim.

 

[FuturePAF]

All of it might be true, but I doubt the sincerity and intentions.

Like I said, for me it is end of discussion when an American think tank is behind any Pakistan related discussion. We need to ask ourselves the question whether US organised Pakistan discussions are worth viewing. They are politically motivated and the US is always involved in some sort of nefarious propaganda. There is always a catch with the Americans.

I fully endorse discussions related to any topic as long as the source is authentic. Indians also hold various Pakistan related discussions. Do we take Indian discussions seriously? We should treat US sponsored Pakistan discussions in a similar fashion in my opinion.


We already know that there are a bunch of problems in Pakistan. No one is denying that. My only concern is the authenticity of the source.

American sponsored Pakistan discussions should be treated in a similar fashion as we treat Indian diatribe. I don't care what the panel looks like. Even if an angel participated in A US sponsored think tank event I would view it with grave suspicion.

Let's not pretend that America is a friend of Pakistan. It is not. The United States speaks Indian tounge.

Then let’s review the policy suggestions with experts (Pakistani and foreigners) we trust, or at least have them give their own analysis. Let’s hire the best Chinese economists, that also have seen their own country go from a mostly agrarian one to a manufacturer superpower and see what is the best way to achieve development. Then the government can decide if it wants to go through with the reforms the experts we picked suggested, if it is brave enough to challenge those with vested interests. Either way, what is happening now isn’t working.

 

[Norwegian]

Can somebody with sound fiscal/economic knowledge summarize the pts made?

Summary:
Pakistan after Nawaz Sharif Bhagora as PM had its economic progress destroyed permanently:

He is been barking a lot lately Atif Mian. He is a favorite of libturds in Pakistan. That is all I need to know.

You are right. Pakistanis already have the world's best economists to solve their long standing economic and financial problems. We don't need this Qadiani macro economist. We are too good already. That's why we went to IMF after going broke 22 times.

 

[Norwegian]

Because he doesn't have any loyalty towards Pakistan.

Oh, so the best way to check loyalty to Pakistan now is if West admires a Pakistani or not?

I am calling his analysis into question because his credentials speak volume. Atif Mian is not a Moeed Yusuf.

Hussain Haqqani is also bright. Very bright in fact. Is he loyal towards Pakistan? You already know the answer. Don't confuse patriotism and loyalty with IQ. You can have the best mind on the planet, but if your allegiance lies elsewhere it is practically useless.

Haqqani was associated with corrupt Zardari govt. Is Atif Mian connected with some corrupt party in Pakistan? You are comparing apple and oranges.

 

[Kharral]

Why would an economist be called an ISI agent? He has nothing to do with geopolitics or advocating for the politics of his country of origin. His subject matter is economy. Period

I am sure you would not want to compare apples and oranges.

Economics is the mother of all geo politics.
There are no better assets than economists to subvert & subdue a Nation.

Deep Pockets & their Puppets.

 

[Norwegian]

Now let's get to the crux of the matter. Why are US think tanks suddenly so interested in Pakistani economy? There are elections on the way. The Americans want Imran Khan gone. It is no secret that the Americans don't approve of Imran Khan. Imran Khan speaks for Pakistan first. Every lie the Americans can make up they will manufacture against PTI and Imran Khan.

It wasn't US conspiracy that brought Dr Atif Mian in PM Imran Khan's economic team. It was PM Imran Khan himself. Now question loyalty of PM Imran Khan

 

[Zibago]

I agree wholeheartedly. It is a shame that US think tanks are organising talks on Pakistani economy. This should be an initiative taken by Pakistani media and think tanks. I don't want to hear or know how Pakistani economy is performing through a hostile and dubious think tank. I want to hear it from our own sources. We lack severely in this area.

In Pakistan we let clowns like Kaiser Bengali give lectures on economy