Pakistan caught in a bind by Sharif’s Saudi debt

[Mrc]

What happened to USA sentiment that "Pakistan is too important for security"?


Actually it's not democracy victory. Container bapu took all the credit and said he forced nawaz to stay out along with "namaloom" parties.

I completely fail to see a point.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

So......the moral of the story is, KSA will call upon Pakistan because of their need. It doesn't matter who is in power. In fact, every time they've called upon Pakistan to send Army, this is THE FIRST time it said no, THANK YOU democracy!!! Where votes of people matter and the elected officials make the calls necessary for the country!!

It was the Democracy that sent it's army in 91. Also in 71.

The same statistics can be said about politicians in regards to who has properties in KSA, Dubai, etc.

More Pakistanis have been killed by Saudi and UAE Dinars than US Drone Strikes. And their Dinars continue to bring the country down. Perhaps you can write about how many $Billions have been lost due to this.

The Saudis are talking out of their own asses. There is no threat to Saudi territorial integrity. Pakistan needs to show that ITS TROOPS AREN'T MERCENARIES FIGHTING SOMEONE'S AGGRESSIVE DESIGNS.

The facts of Yemen is that the Saudis don't like the Houthis and don't want them to be in charge. They are almost 42% of the population, but are Shia. A Shia government in the Arabian Peninsula is a big no-no for them.

Well they can send a few thousands back to refuse to give more visas.
Anyway, if you think this is an empty threat, then so shall be other threats.

You're going to make your hair turn white or worse lose some.

Pakistan can transition out the number of SSG doing close proximity guard duty for the House of Saud. Forbid ex-military from working as OPPRESSORS in Bahrain. And get a little closer to Iran.

Pakistan has more leverage, it will hurt Pakistan in the short-term but the long-term outlook is better than Pakistan being dependent on the GCC.

 

[WishLivePak]

It was the Democracy that sent it's army in 91. Also in 71.

The same statistics can be said about politicians in regards to who has properties in KSA, Dubai, etc.

More Pakistanis have been killed by Saudi and UAE Dinars than US Drone Strikes. And their Dinars continue to bring the country down. Perhaps you can write about how many $Billions have been lost due to this.

The Saudis are talking out of their own asses. There is no threat to Saudi territorial integrity. Pakistan needs to show that ITS TROOPS AREN'T MERCENARIES FIGHTING SOMEONE'S AGGRESSIVE DESIGNS.

The facts of Yemen is that the Saudis don't like the Houthis and don't want them to be in charge. They are almost 42% of the population, but are Shia. A Shia government in the Arabian Peninsula is a big no-no for them.



You're going to make your hair turn white or worse lose some.

Pakistan can transition out the number of SSG doing close proximity guard duty for the House of Saud. Forbid ex-military from working as OPPRESSORS in Bahrain. And get a little closer to Iran.

Pakistan has more leverage, it will hurt Pakistan in the short-term but the long-term outlook is better than Pakistan being dependent on the GCC.

So tell me, if the Saudis need us so desperately, to protect their country and monarchy, why the heck us saying no to an external war of theirs is such a worry?

Pakistan should not need to reach consensus in parliament or have debate in media or public forum. The PM should say flat out no on day 1. What's the worse that's gonna happen? Nothing, the Saudis will "forever" need us (until monarchy is kicked out).

 

[Viper0011.]

It was the Democracy that sent it's army in 91. Also in 71.

The same statistics can be said about politicians in regards to who has properties in KSA, Dubai, etc.
More Pakistanis have been killed by Saudi and UAE Dinars than US Drone Strikes. And their Dinars continue to bring the country down. Perhaps you can write about how many $Billions have been lost due to this..

You live in the US and can't follow the main point about the system? See above bold and my response. The "Civilians" actually do have a right to send their army to where they think is their country's national interests' alignment. But the generals don't get to do that, as they are mere public servants. NOT elected by people.

So what makes no sense, is people belonging to the Pakistani military on here, their relatives or these generals sons' ignoring an elected government of 200 million people, and JUST thrusting a mere 500 K military's opinion on 200 million people.
In a democratic system, the civilians get to call the shots. The generals salute and leave their belt when asked to!!! Last part, if everyone including the big generals and all other politicians have homes in Dubai, why bash JUST NS???? KSA financed a lot of military stuff and Pakistan's nuke program, no matter who was in power. And they'll call upon whoever is running Pakistan when they need something. So why silly pointing to one individual who actually said no through the Parliament???

 

[Providence]

You gotta deliver for the money you have taken as a credit

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

So tell me, if the Saudis need us so desperately, to protect their country and monarchy, why the heck us saying no to an external war of theirs is such a worry?

Pakistan should not need to reach consensus in parliament or have debate in media or public forum. The PM should say flat out no on day 1. What's the worse that's gonna happen? Nothing, the Saudis will "forever" need us (until monarchy is kicked out).

The chicken that yelled the sky is falling.

To the North Saudi policies brought unprecedented Iranian influence in Iraq. Bahrain is still in disarray, with ex-Pakistani, Saudi, UAE, Qatari troops along with foreign mercenaries keeping the House of Khalifa on top.

To the Saudis holding hands with any ruler who was given a "Shia" adhan is like shaking the hands with Shaytan. No-one is threatening the House of Saud. The population is ~29 million Saudis, if the Saudis love the House so much, you would think, would you not that all 29 million would pick up weapons and defend their nation? But they're more busy doing wheelies and humiliating foreign workers, who aren't white skin colored.

You live in the US and can't follow the main point about the system? See above bold and my response. The "Civilians" actually do have a right to send their army to where they think is their country's national interests' alignment. But the generals don't get to do that, as they are mere public servants. NOT elected by people.

So what makes no sense, is people belonging to the Pakistani military on here, their relatives or these generals sons' ignoring an elected government of 200 million people, and JUST thrusting a mere 500 K military's opinion on 200 million people.
In a democratic system, the civilians get to call the shots. The generals salute and leave their belt when asked to!!! Last part, if everyone including the big generals and all other politicians have homes in Dubai, why bash JUST NS???? KSA financed a lot of military stuff and Pakistan's nuke program, no matter who was in power. And they'll call upon whoever is running Pakistan when they need something. So why silly pointing to one individual who actually said no through the Parliament???

And the 'elected politicians',who might I add are exclusively feudals, are also public servants.

I rather follow the lead of a man who had honored his country through service than one who has threatened his peasants to vote for him or face punishments. But maybe that's due to my own military service.

May I remind you that it was a 'elected' civilian who refused to follow the wishes of the people that created Bangladesh?

UAE also financed the Block 60 F-16 maybe they should demand the US to commit troops to fight their war?
The Saudis held up the Typhoon fighter assembly lines, giving employment to thousands of Europeans, offered to buy Leo2 etc. This can go on...

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

Nawaz can say no. He won't lose much.

But then get ready for all Pakistani in Middle East workers to be sent back to Pakistan. No one wants that to happen.

Middle East can easily replace Pakistan. But no other country or region can be replacement for us.

Pakistan has a DEFENSE agreement not an ATTACK aggrement with them. Do you really think saudis would like pakistan to go towards iran and cancel that defense agreement which is still intact? They can stop funding pakistan government at least for some time but i honestly dont think they will take a step to expel pakistani expats from their country and turn pakistan from friend to foe.

 

[xyxmt]

Nawaz can say no. He won't lose much.

But then get ready for all Pakistani in Middle East workers to be sent back to Pakistan. No one wants that to happen.

Middle East can easily replace Pakistan. But no other country or region can be replacement for us.

this is what these so called paper filler don't understand, these idiots think had Saudia not given Pakistan 1.5 billion they wouldn't have asked us for this never mind the aid they given us for last 40 years. They hosted NS but why did Musharaf listened to them and let a big Hijacker get away since Musharaf was under no obligation by Saudis. Kon in chution ko writer bana deta hay.

 

[Mrc]

So tell me, if the Saudis need us so desperately, to protect their country and monarchy, why the heck us saying no to an external war of theirs is such a worry?

Pakistan should not need to reach consensus in parliament or have debate in media or public forum. The PM should say flat out no on day 1. What's the worse that's gonna happen? Nothing, the Saudis will "forever" need us (until monarchy is kicked out).

If you give a little effort and actually read what was tabled and passed by national assembly....
It practically guarentees pak going to war if saudi sovereignity is threatened....now these exact words have been approved by parliment so in case there is a situation inside saudi arabia may be near iraqi border ; there is no further need for consensus and pak forces can deploy in accordance with current resolution...

 

[WishLivePak]

If you give a little effort and actually read what was tabled and passed by national assembly....
It practically guarentees pak going to war if saudi sovereignity is threatened....now these exact words have been approved by parliment so in case there is a situation inside saudi arabia may be near iraqi border ; there is no further need for consensus and pak forces can deploy in accordance with current resolution...

And if you're actually familiar within ground realities, Pakistan IS sending troops inside Saudi. They may even cross the border or whatnot. But our govt has caved into pressure. Some parties are already changing stance.

You'll see. Keep watching the news. Of course you wouldn't believe me and I could be wrong, but based on media reports, we're likely to send a bunch of troops.

 

[Viper0011.]

And the 'elected politicians',who might I add are exclusively feudals, are also public servants.

I rather follow the lead of a man who had honored his country through service than one who has threatened his peasants to vote for him or face punishments. But maybe that's due to my own military service.

May I remind you that it was a 'elected' civilian who refused to follow the wishes of the people that created Bangladesh?

UAE also financed the Block 60 F-16 maybe they should demand the US to commit troops to fight their war?
The Saudis held up the Typhoon fighter assembly lines, giving employment to thousands of Europeans, offered to buy Leo2 etc. This can go on...

1) Who is a "feudal" from the current leadership in Pakistan?

2) Man of honor....in Pakistan's case, you are referring to generals who came into power for their own power hunger, through martial law (or Marshal's law....referring to the general being the Marshal)?? The recent man of honor, aka Mushy the Bushy, did what to Pakistan? Suspended constitution, dragged judges out of courts, showed punches on global tv, participated in murders and execution of his opponents.......if you call him a "man of honor"....well he's not really a man, let alone a man of honor. Real men don't go execute their people through their forceful military. Real men, don't attack their countries constitutions or drag judges, belonging to the justice system, from their hair onto streets.

3) Real men also don't take a U turn on one phone call, when if he was a real "man" with brain and sense of a real civlian, he would've negotiated a totally new future for your country, instead of agreeing to cooperate with the US. The US understands democracy and negotiations. Post 9/11, Pakistan could've worked with the US as a true partner and in turn, it would've received so much assistance on ACTUAL projects, that by now (13 years after), Pakistan would be a super fast growing country. But sorry, you had a "real man" running the house.

Real men, take a stand, even if it is a military who broke the constitution. Real men, do not bend on principles of human freedom and human rights. Real men, get help from others and real men, are brought back to power by the people!!! They don't need a military to put them in the spot light, they work hard and grow their country to be in the spot light. Whether some hate or not, they continue to work and make a difference through progress, not talk, or violence or abusive use of force!!!

 

[The SC]

" Pakistan’s involvement as a proxy, beginning with the ‘Afghan Jihad’ against the Soviets, has come at a serious and high cost to Pakistan as a state and society. Radicalism has spread in the form of intolerant versions of Islam, the Taliban, a drugs and gun culture and massive funding directed to Saudi-sponsored seminaries. The latter has promoted sectarianism by financing murderous Sunni campaigns against the Shia minority."
And Saudi Arabia was responsible for that!!!
It is the same guys who had created that mess who are pursuing the same policies...Every time a Muslim country becomes powerful, trouble is stirred in its direct proximity... Iran/ Iraq, Pakistan/ Afghanistan, KSA/ Yemen...etc

The war in Yemen has already started, A Saudi prince-General was killed alongside some other high ranking military personnel in North Yemen, 40 Egyptian special forces were killed or captured in South Yemen. Houthis were disbanded and trying to regroup. Many army units joined back the regular army. I do think that this "war" is going to be very short, mostly when one hears that army units are leaving the opposition and stating that they are doing it for the benefit of Yemen. Maybe we are already starting to see the influence of the heavy weights in the region;Iran,Turkey and Pakistan on the Yemeni military who holds the real key to the Yemeni peace.

You gotta deliver for the money you have taken as a credit

By that logic, the US should deliver troops to China in case of war, they should be in the millions, according to the trillions of debt to China...

 

[wiseone2]

Pakistan caught in a bind by Sharif’s Saudi debt

Author: Sajjad Ashraf, NUS

Stung by his complete failure to muster the parliamentary support needed to join in a Saudi-led intervention in Yemen’s civil war, Pakistan’s Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is now counting the costs of his $1.5 billion folly.

Sharif was put on the spot when the official Saudi news agency released a statement, after King Salman and Sharif spoke by phone last week, stating that Pakistan promised to place its military potential at Saudi disposal. The Saudis requested airplanes, ships and ground troops in support of its operations in Yemen. In the absence of a denial and with an active ministerial campaign in support of Saudi Arabia, it is near certain that Sharif did give an understanding of this nature to the Saudi King, when Sharif visited Saudi Arabia at short notice during March this year.

Sharif and the Saudi royals have cultivated good relations for some time. The Saudis softened their nuclear sanctions on Pakistan in 1998 when, as prime minister, Sharif decided to conduct Pakistan’s first nuclear testing. They gave billions of dollars worth of oil to Pakistan on deferred payment terms but effectively free for five years. The Saudi government later denied this facility when General Pervez Musharraf, who succeeded Sharif, asked for its extension.

The Saudis made a calculated investment. After saving the Sharif family from Musharraf’s jails, they hosted them in style during their years in exile. They backed Sharifs to set up multi-million dollar enterprises based in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. When the political space opened up in Pakistan, they sent Sharif back in 2007 on board a royal Saudi plane to prevent his deportation. Musharraf had thwarted Sharif’s earlier attempt to return, breaking what had been a solid commitment of a maximum ten-year exile. Sharif and his family owe much of their new billions to Saudi patronage. As such, Sharif ‘is very much Saudi Arabia’s man in Pakistan,’ as a Saudi prince put it.

And in 2014, when the Pakistani rupee was sinking, a mysterious deposit of US$1.5 billion showed up in Pakistan’s central bank reserves — ‘from a friend’, who did not wish to be named. Pakistanis who questioned the wisdom of accepting this money were misleadingly told there was no quid pro quo. But it is now payback time for Sharif’s debt to the Saudis.

There were signs that something was afoot. Saudi Arabia was the first country that Army Chief General Raheel Sharif visited after assuming command in 2014. The Saudi Foreign Minister and the Crown Prince, now King Salman, visited Pakistan early last year in quick succession. Reports of Saudi purchases of Pakistani arms rapidly gained currency. Last month before the Saudi offensive was launched in Yemen, Sharif was literally summoned to Saudi Arabia at short notice and in a most unusual departure from protocol the Saudi King Salman, the Crown Prince and the whole cabinet received him at Riyadh airport.

Pakistan’s economy is not picking up. Pakistan is in need of money, which the Saudi regime is ready to pay in return for renting out the services of Pakistan’s military. In fact, Pakistan has done this deal before and seems poised to do it again. Pakistan Air Force pilots flew Saudi airplanes as early as 1969, repelling a South Yemeni incursion reportedly supported by Saudi nemesis Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser. At the height of deployment during the 1980s Pakistan reportedly rotated about 50,000 troops in Saudi Arabia.

There is also a constant supply of retired servicemen (resembling US ‘contractors’) in Saudi Arabia, as well as a little fewer than a thousand servicemen from Pakistan who remain there in technical support and medical roles.

The Saudis hold another strong card. Pakistani expatriates living in the kingdom send over US$8 billion home annually, a figure that represents almost half of Pakistan’s total US$16 billion in offshore remittances and helps to shore up the sagging economy.

Yet again, despite pretentions otherwise, Sharif’s personal obligation to the Saudi royal household is casting a heavy shadow over issues of national interest. Pakistan’s wariness in joining another war is understandable. Pakistan’s involvement as a proxy, beginning with the ‘Afghan Jihad’ against the Soviets, has come at a serious and high cost to Pakistan as a state and society. Radicalism has spread in the form of intolerant versions of Islam, the Taliban, a drugs and gun culture and massive funding directed to Saudi-sponsored seminaries. The latter has promoted sectarianism by financing murderous Sunni campaigns against the Shia minority.

Since the Iranian Revolution, Pakistan has become the ideological battleground between Saudi Arabia and Iran. An already fractured society, Pakistan would be better off staying out of this combustible adventure.

Sajjad Ashraf is an adjunct professor at the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy, National University of Singapore. He was a member of the Pakistan Foreign Service 1973–2004.

Pakistan caught in a bind by Sharif’s Saudi debt | East Asia Forum

$8 billion in remmitances is a high figure to risk

 

[Finer]

They dont have guts...
Pk is too impotant for their security...

Pakistan army is important, but not Pakistan as whole. KSA will not dare to cut its diplomatic relationship with Pakistani army and Pakistani government, but KSA using GCC can deport million Pakistanis back to Pakistan for no reason and Pakistani government/Pakistani army cannot do anything about it. Just because KSA cannot jeopardize its diplomatic relation with Pakistan, that doesn't mean KSA cannot deport million Pakistanis [remittance as strong-point for Pakistan] using other channels. That is the price Pakistan should accept now since it is decision of public-backed Parliament as whole, not Pakistani government/Pakistani army in this case.

The other pipeline that connects from Turkey, Iran, Pakistan to China better be worth it.

 

[tarrar]

Choti Tind, bari tind should be send to Yemen to fight against Yemeni houtis to clear their debts & return the favor to KSA. Pakistan is not responsible for their debts.