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Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

PA VT4 versus original VT4 (used by Thailand and Nigeria) and VT4A1 without its APS and UAVs.
I think the pictures speak for themselves.
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Because The ZTZ-99A is;
1. Not more advanced.
2. Not offered for export.
3. Does not share any parts or design language with existing AK series unlike the VT4, leading to easier logistics and training.
4. Is much heavier and hence not as good for Pakistani terrain.
5. Not offered for export.
6. Too expensive.

it was never actually an option.
Thanks for a proper logical answer

Beautiful tank.
Which types of loitering munitions can be integrated on these tanks
 
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We don't manufacture alot of T80UD parts but we do produce enough to keep the fleet going. However if we don't reestablish supply chain, we'll be in a deeper shit.
We do manufacture a lot of T80UD parts. More than Ukraine does. We do it specifically because Ukraine cannot, the war didn’t change anything, Ukraine has been unable to deliver most components for UD since 2016.

The FCS, GCS, auto-loader, radios, sights and many other parts were modernized and indegnized on the UDs years ago. The only thing we are reliant on Ukraine for is the Powertrain and it’s components, which again Ukraine was already having trouble delivering before the war. There is some work being done in order to overcome this issue using existing stocks and Chinese powertrains, more specifically by swapping a Chinese power train into AK and using the AK powertrains for UDs (if successful, this could potentially keep the UD fleet in service indefinitely, or as long as they need to serve before retirement), but it is a tall order. If such an endeavor is not successful then UDs might be retired prematurely, though that will not be any time soon.
 
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We do manufacture a lot of T80UD parts. More than Ukraine does. We do it specifically because Ukraine cannot, the war didn’t change anything, Ukraine has been unable to deliver most components for UD since 2016.

The FCS, GCS, auto-loader, radios, sights and many other parts were modernized and indegnized on the UDs years ago. The only thing we are reliant on Ukraine for is the Powertrain and it’s components, which again Ukraine was already having trouble delivering before the war. There is some work being done in order to overcome this issue using existing stocks and Chinese powertrains, more specifically by swapping a Chinese power train into AK and using the AK powertrains for UDs (if successful, this could potentially keep the UD fleet in service indefinitely, or as long as they need to serve before retirement), but it is a tall order. If such an endeavor is not successful then UDs might be retired prematurely, though that will not be any time soon.
I was just quoting what my brother was telling. I'll ask him more for specifics. He drives a ud occasionally.
 
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I was just quoting what my brother was telling. I'll ask him more for specifics. He drives a ud occasionally.
I have too, though I’m not in that line of work.
One simply needs to visit CEME and HIT to get an entire list of parts that are locally made for the UD. It includes most of the electronic systems, the Hulls were also rebuilt locally. However even a single part can grind a tank to a halt, and a powertrain is obviously not a small part of a tank, until and unless we can find a replacement for that, we cannot keep these machines in service, no matter how many parts we make.

Sorry, what are the differences we're supposed to identify?
FY-IV ERA on the hull and turret (and hence a completely different looking turret exterior) compared to FY-II ERA on the Thai model (notice how the ERA on the PA tanks is several times thicker). ERA on the Roof. Newer MRS sensor next to the gunners sight.
Rest of the changes are internal and cannot be seen outside.
 
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FY-IV ERA on the hull and turret (and hence a completely different looking turret exterior) compared to FY-II ERA on the Thai model (notice how the ERA on the PA tanks is several times thicker). ERA on the Roof. Newer MRS sensor next to the gunners sight.
Rest of the changes are internal and cannot be seen outside.
The first 3 rows of ERA on the straight part of the front hull seems to be thin, only the last (slanted) row seems thick.

ERA on roof also seems thick. But generally speaking, is ERA on roof a good idea? It is supposed to explode, isn't it?
 
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The first 3 rows of ERA on the straight part of the front hull seems to be thin, only the last (slanted) row seems thick.

ERA on roof also seems thick. But generally speaking, is ERA on roof a good idea? It is supposed to explode, isn't it?
The first three rows are thicker too, not as thick as the blocks on the turret or at the front of the hull, but still more so than on the original. Keep in mind thickness isn’t everything, it’s still FYIV versus FYII, one is older and does not effect the penetration of Tandem HEAT or APFSDS projectiles, while the other does, regardless of its thickness. Moreover, you cover the more vulnerable parts with the thicker armor, the upper glacis is sharply angled and hence less likely to be hit unlike the front of the hull. Putting thicker ERA there will also impede the drivers vision.

The Older models have no ERA on the roof at all.

And ERA in the roof is safe, the tanks systems are built to handle shock and shrapnel, the proximity does not hurt them usually, and even if it does, your crew is worth more, you can lose an optical sight or a radio, but if it saves your crew it’s worth it. Without the ERA you’d be taking far more damage anyways.

That being said, ERA is not a random explosion, it is a controlled, directional explosion that travels outwards, in the direction opposite to the incoming projectile, so ideally it will not even hit anything on the tank itself, as it is directed upwards in the case of roof ERA.
 
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The prevailing opinion among Chinese military enthusiasts is that the VT4 is more advanced than the 99A.

1, 99A is earlier.

2. The biggest threat to China is the United States, and the main battlefield is the Pacific Ocean. There is no threat on land, so the tank upgrade plan is slow

3. As a foreign trade weapon, VT4 need to be compared with the most advanced tanks in the world, so this requires that VT4 must constantly update their technology in order to remain competitive. So someone joked, what's the upgrade plan for 99A? Let's buy VT4.
 
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To answer your first question, simply because it’s older. Over a decade older to be exact. I never said ZTZ-99A is worst than VT4, only that it’s not more technologically advanced. ZTZ-99A owing to its thicker armor and better design is definitely better protected than the VT4 and retains similar mobility despite this weight increase due to a more powerful engine output. It also has most of everything the VT4A1 does, just a bit older. Keep in mind both tanks fire the same ammo, and use the same ERA, but the base armor is thicker on the 99A.

VT4P (VT4A1) represents the best of Chinese tank technology at the moment when it comes to optics, stabilizers, FCS/GCS and electronic systems simply because it’s an entire decade newer. It’s still Chinese technology at the end of the day and they could easily put it on a new ZTZ-99.
I assume we will see an updated ZTZ-99A (ZTZ-99B) eventually with the hard kill APS systems China is offering for VT4 (GL5 and GL6, which are better than the APS system on the ZTZ-99A) and other technologies from the VT4A1 and perhaps even newer.

China does not have a need for the best tanks, they don’t have any adversaries with good tanks, the only two they have are india and Taiwan. Taiwan uses M60s and India uses stock T90S both of which look obsolete compared to a ZTZ-99A or a VT4A1, that’s why China doesn’t spent more money on upgrading its tanks, instead spending them on its navy or Air Force where it needs to contend with USA and needs cutting edge tech.

When China did need new tanks, particularly light tanks as seen in Ladakh, they developed the ZTQ-15, which is a very good light tank, I’d say it is also technologically ahead of the ZTZ-99A, again, simply because it’s newer, not because it’s better, surely the 99A has much better firepower and armor, it’s just nearly 12 years older.

And by design language I mean the fact that the VT4 is based on the VT1/Al-Khalid design, it retains the same basic design with upgrades, it’s the same shape, very similar layout and controls etc. The 99 is based on an entirely different design, I’m willing to bet there is significant commonality in the smaller parts of VT4 and AK, which is saving HIT quite some bother right now. Wouldn’t be the case with ZTZ-99.

ZTZ-99 is heavier because it’s bigger, has more armor, it’s more expensive because it’s not meant for export, which means China has to set up a new production line for it to cater for export customers, it can’t use the VT4 production line to produce those, it’s also more expensive because if China wants to order 99As for itself, then it has an issue with parts delivery. These are the seemingly little logistical things nobody thinks about, but are actually what dictate the cost of something. Let me put it like this, if I asked China to build me a JF-17 from scratch, it might cost them more than building a J-10C, despite the massive capability and size difference between the two, simply because China has an active J-10C production line, but not a JF-17 one. Moreover, we are producing VT4 locally, on the same machines and factories as AK, would not be possible with ZTZ-99, new parts, new manuals, new designs, all of this adds to the cost, and that’s only if we get ToT for that, we had to negotiate a lot to get full ToT for VT4 already.


China only spends enough money on something as it needs, if something is beyond the capability it requires, it will not spend money on it, if anything PLA downgraded Z-10s before inducting them simply because they didn’t need the added capabilities, nobody around them had better Gunships in such numbers, the money can be better used elsewhere. The Chinese and the PLA are extremely smart with their spending, as they should be, when running an armed forces that massive.

The export customers (Pakistan in this case) needed more capabilities than PLA did, because for us the Z-10 was going to be the top of the line thing, so they added them for us, and once PLA itself trialed the Z-10M and ME. They actually added some of its upgrades that they liked to their own Z-10Ks as well.
LOL. Another smart alec who acted he knows alot. How much do you really know Typ99A2 tank? The sophistication and autonomous of Type99A2 is unseen in any tank China exported.

During testing, Type99A2 has a very high first hit probabilities than any other Chinese tank including VT-4. It can in fact operate without any crew except driver in the mist of battle. China prize this as the trump card and a big reason it is not allowed to be export. And you think PA version of VT-4 has never been simulated in real battlefield engagement with Type99A2?

Dont tell me you know Type99A2 better than me, What you really know about Type99A2 are just shallow info of its actual capabilities.
 
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LOL. Another smart alec who acted he knows alot. How much do you really know Typ99A2 tank? The sophistication and autonomous of Type99A2 is unseen in any tank China exported.

During testing, Type99A2 has a very high first hit probabilities than any other Chinese tank including VT-4. It can in fact operate without any crew except driver in the mist of battle. China prize this as the trump card and a big reason it is not allowed to be export. And you think PA version of VT-4 has never been simulated in real battlefield engagement with Type99A2?

Dont tell me you know Type99A2 better than me, What you really know about Type99A2 are just shallow info of its actual capabilities.
 
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