Pakistan, 50 years ago

[T-Faz]

We must understand that the socio-political mobilization against India had to be rooted in an Islamist narrative. Thus, the distancing from the west was inevitable.

No, the previously Congress allied Mullahs who opposed Pakistan gained a foothold in our nations politics through violence, intimidation and their backing from certain members of our establishment as well as the Gulf States.

These groups like JI, Majlis Ahrar etc become so strong that they were able to sway the public and get the Bhutto's government to give in to their demands.

Once this was done, they were able to exert their influence and continue to Islamize the nation.

 

[Rig Vedic]

No, the previously Congress allied Mullahs who opposed Pakistan gained a foothold in our nations politics through violence, intimidation and their backing from certain members of our establishment as well as the Gulf States.

They could not have become so strong through only violence, intimidation and foreign backing. They found fertile soil in which to take root because one could not separate Pakistani nationalism from Islamism and anti-Indianism, given the way Pakistan came into existence.

But all bad ideas have an expiry date. Communism could not be sustained for too long. Similarly, the long-standing bad ideas that have resulted into the present mess will also collapse.

 

[Solo Monk]

They could not have become so strong through only violence, intimidation and foreign backing. They found fertile soil in which to take root because one could not separate Pakistani nationalism from Islamism and anti-Indianism, given the way Pakistan came into existence.

But all bad ideas have an expiry date. Communism could not be sustained for too long. Similarly, the long-standing bad ideas that have resulted into the present mess will also collapse.

If by Mullahs you mean the Mawdudî-like thought (Jamaat-e-Islami & all), it's interesting to note that he was, firstly, against Pakistan's creation as he thought putting all Muslims from Indian subcontinent will block Islam's expansion amongst India's Hindus.
And 'Islamism' is not a part of Pakistan creation's rhetoric: secular scholar Aitaz Ahsan has justified Pakistan's creation without the Islam factor, even if has its importance. You can refer to his book on the Indus civilization.

 

[T-Faz]

They could not have become so strong through only violence, intimidation and foreign backing. They found fertile soil in which to take root because one could not separate Pakistani nationalism from Islamism and anti-Indianism, given the way Pakistan came into existence.

But all bad ideas have an expiry date. Communism could not be sustained for too long. Similarly, the long-standing bad ideas that have resulted into the present mess will also collapse.

I know you have a problem with the idea of Pakistan and you can never really come to terms with its creation.

These same people were very close to your Congress and they used it as a platform to abuse Muslim League and its leaders. If what you say is true, then Pakistan would have been the way it is now from the offset.

Pakistan was created to be a progressive Muslim state and it was proven how successful it can be under Gen. Ayub.

The idea worked and it burned our neighbors who could not achieve a damn thing. However the nation got hijacked from Islamist immigrants from India who were hell bent on destroying it, the thing is though that we are very resilient, this nation won't die as easily as you hope it would.

Similarly communism has worked wonders for China, your own country too was on the wrong path and it took the death of two leaders, who died like dogs, for the nation to change its national focus.

You and your ilk have been calling for the collapse of this nation for a long time, ever since it was created to be precise but its a damn shame that even when we are down and out, you cannot do a damn thing.

 

[Solo Monk]

Well its unfair to compare then, as Pakistan was only 7-15 years old then and havent left its own stamp on new Pakistan, with all remaining infrastructure was left by the British.

What 'infrastructure' ? Even during the British India, today's Pakistan (and North India in general) was the most backward place, thanks the Punjabi-Sindhi-Pashtun patriarchal and conservative culture. As you know, in North India, Rajputs princes kept their royal privileges, and Sir James McCrone Douie, British administrator, stated in one of his books that only 4% of the whole North India/Pakistan were able to write and read. Even the then Pak. Army received a tiny of the numerous battalions given to India.
It was thanks to Ayyub Khan's genius that Pakistan developed. I mean, this guy has literally built Islamabad from nothing, it says a lot.

 

[Rig Vedic]

You and your ilk have been calling for the collapse of this nation for a long time, ever since it was created to be precise but its a damn shame that even when we are down and out, you cannot do a damn thing.

You misunderstand me, what I am saying is that Islamism and anti-Indianism have been used to justify Pakistan, and the dominance of the Mosque-Military complex within it. I am also saying that this was almost inevitable, the roots have been present since inception. Those are the bad ideas that should collapse.

 

[T-Faz]

You misunderstand me, what I am saying is that Islamism and anti-Indianism have been used to justify Pakistan, and the dominance of the Mosque-Millitary complex within it. I am also saying that this was almost inevitable, the roots have been present since inception. Those are the bad ideas that should collapse.

Anti-Indianism only started after the 65 war and it become a phenomenon later during Bhutto's rule who used it to deflect from his poor leadership.

This same military took sever action against the Mullahs in 1953 and kept them out for years until they exerted themselves through force and violence.

This can be attributed to a number of things, internal and external.

Internally, there were people who were looking to give rise to Islamism so it can benefit them and the religio-political parties in general.

Externally, the Arabs wanted Pakistan to be their guardian and to achieve this, they needed a nation that was Islamist in nature.

The Americans too supported extremists and fanatics to push out Bhutto.

Nothing lasts forever and these ism's will die off too.

 

[Solomon2]

...this guy has literally built Islamabad from nothing, it says a lot.

But you may not recognize what it says. Pakistan earned most of its foreign exchange from the export and processing of jute for burlap bags. All that production and industry was in East Pakistan, and Ayub diverted these earnings to West Pakistan to build his new capital. The East Pakistanis - poorer than their Western countrymen - naturally resented this and the political strains from building the new capital contributed to their desire for an independent Bangladesh.

 

[T-Faz]

But you may not recognize what it says. Pakistan earned most of its foreign exchange from the export and processing of jute for burlap bags. All that production and industry was in East Pakistan, and Ayub diverted these earnings to West Pakistan to build his new capital. The East Pakistanis - poorer than their Western countrymen - naturally resented this and the political strains from building the new capital contributed to their desire for an independent Bangladesh.

Instead of building Islamabad, the money should have been used in East Pakistan for their development.

 

[Solo Monk]

But you may not recognize what it says. Pakistan earned most of its foreign exchange from the export and processing of jute for burlap bags. All that production and industry was in East Pakistan, and Ayub diverted these earnings to West Pakistan to build his new capital. The East Pakistanis - poorer than their Western countrymen - naturally resented this and the political strains from building the new capital contributed to their desire for an independent Bangladesh.

I was talking of Ayyub Khan's political genius, the way he handled affairs, not the total hypocrite mismanagement of East Pakistan which was nearly systemic.
And that was quite a detail, the main point being that North India-Pakistan was far from being the most developed area of the then British India.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

...
Thanks to Zia, Pakistan went down. One can only weep for that time and hope someday things change.

I think it was Ayub who killed the very idea of Pakistan, the rest of them just followed.

 

[Md Akmal]

Instead of building Islamabad, the money should have been used in East Pakistan for their development.

@ Do you think that it was not developed during Ayub's period ? It was at par and in some aspects more tha West Pakistan. Donnot believe the data given by Mujib. These all were supplied by Bangalee Babus(mainly hindu intellectual guided by RAW). Today after being scrutiny it clearly reveals that those datas were ficticious.

@ However, Pakistan should have given more impotance on the defence of East Pakistan. The concept that defence of East Pakistan lies on the West is completely false. The development made by FM Ayub Khan in those days in East Pakistan stilll carries.

 

[President Camacho]

@President Camacho,
Some very interesting points.
Indeed, since Musharraf, there is a social reversal. Partly due to Musharraf, partly due to the massive media penetration.

Even in the tribal areas--arguably the most backward, the most conservative place in Pakistan the violence is mostly because of political and ethnic reasons. OBL death was hardly mourned even in FATA.

Thanks for a great post again.

You are most welcome Meengla.

It's just that although these points are very obvious, many people here focus so hard on the current affairs that they fail to see the broader picture.

Yeah, in this reversal Musharraf did play a big part, he even went on to appoint officers to rid the ISI of the radicals as well. Earned him many enemies, but Pakistan got on a bloody but new path away from hopelessness.

 

[nForce]

The only thing saddens me is the loss of economic growth and pace that we had in the 50's and 60's. We were one of the leading asian economies at that time. i think Bhutto and some General's 65 war decision really hurt us because that was the time our decline started and it hasn't stopped after that.

Pakistan had a jump-start with USA as an ally for Pakistan.Several pacts for industrial cooperation were signed between US and Pakistan.Pakistan was the most trusted ally of US at that time,not Communist China or non-aligned India,heavily tilted towards Soviets.
The problem began with the militarization.
I firmly believe that a huge military is always a burden for a country's economy.The ongoing tension with India,war of 1965,and then again in 1971,internal political unrest,military coup,involvements in Afghanistan,one after another made the country loose its focus for sound economic development.
Radicalization of the state and unstable political structure ensured that the foreign investors stay out.
Pakistan had a very efficient network of irrigation back in the 50s and early 60s.I dont know why it was neglected.India cannot be blamed for water problems as there has been no violation of Indus Water treaty so far.
The leaders who came after the 60s had way too much focus on external affairs and military than the internal development.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The difference in Pakistan is also visible watching dramas of 70's you can see cultural differences , back then people were more 'open'

And its 100% correct our nation was going in right direction towards setting up factories and setting up industries

Our "Kambakthi" started when Fatima Jinnah , was not ellected and an army general came to power

The first one was of course Liaqat Ali Khan , civilian leader was assasinated , and guess who came to power

Yep American Aid loving criters

We became this after getting American Aid and being in their alliance

I am amazed as to why or how it was done , a sabotage of such epic proportions

Mother of Pakistan - not ellected to be leader of Nation being sister of Qaid-e-Azam

As far as Madrassas are concerned they need to go of course but provided we get billions in aid to build new schools and create jobs